 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-08 23:07
Hi all,
I've looked at a number of posts on this BB about Penzel-Mueller clarinets. I have two: an Artist and a Brilliante. Both appear to date from the post-WW2 era, as they have alphanumeric serial numbers (the Artist is unplayable due to deas pads; the Brilliante about 90% playable; both await restoration).
Besides Artist and Brilliante, I've seen at least these model names:
Empire
Pacemaker (good for the heart?)
Recording Studio
Soloist
Trailblazer
Anyway, I was wondering if someone could tell me what the different model names mean: which are student, mid-level, and professional? Or do they mean something else?
Thanks!
Klarnetisto
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-09 01:29
Along with "Empire" they made "Empire State" models. I have one of the latter, mine happens to have seven rings, articulated C#/G# plus the little vent under the upper joint sliver key, and (originally) a l.h. alternate Ab/Eb lever although it's missing from mine. However, I recently saw another "Empire State" model on eBay which had the standard 6-ring keywork, so clearly the keywork complement is not a distinguishing factor of this model. I also have three metal "Artist" models and in the past had a wood "Artist" model. Makes me sort of wonder if the model names are irrelevant......
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2010-11-09 11:20
Attachment: Super_Brilliante.jpg (30k)
The best PM pro models are "Brilliante" and "Supper Brilliante".
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2010-11-09 11:27)
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2010-11-09 14:19
I think the Brilliante and Super Brilliante were billed as their most expensive models. I recall reading that the only difference between the Super and regular Brilliante was the thickness of the plating but I can't independently confirm that as I don't own a Super. Comparing the Brilliante to the Artist I find very few differences.
I own 2 brilliante's and am underwhelmed by them. I think my 1920's P-M with no model name plays significantly better.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-10 18:01
Yes, I was practicing on my Brilliante last night and found it very satisfying indeed!
Klarnetisto
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2010-11-15 15:35
David Spiegelthal wrote:
>>"How so, Vytas"?<<
I was in contact with Gustave E. Mueller about 7 years ago. He mentioned that "Supper Brilliante" was their top model and he was looking for one for the P-M instrument museum.
I also have old advertisement from the P&M. The ad says: "The Brilliante is the finest P&M clarinet in the professional grade model that preceded the Supper Brilliante".
The "Artist" model listed as the most popular pro clarinet.
In the medium priced bracket is the "Empire" model.
The lowest priced clarinet is the "Bel Canto" model.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-11-15 16:40
Vytas; Thanks for the Penzel-Mueller lowdown, from Mr. Mueller and advertisments. Thats the kind of info thats helpful to researchers and collectors (like myself) who like to restore the high quality clarinets now sitting around in closets attracting wool-moths.
The major pitfall to this collecting, of course,is aquiring too many 'student level' clarinets, while looking for the higher quality horns.
I've ended up with two PM 'Artist' metal clarinets; one is silver-plated that looks and plays very well (high-intermediate level), the other is nickle-plated, and, while having identical keywork, looks very hastily assembled for the 'student' level market. Possibly quality changed over time, especially with WW2 thrown into the mix.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-15 23:42
Thanks, Susie Ray! My own P-M must be either an older or newer one, as neither the exact model ("Empire State" rather than just "Empire") nor the keywork design (7 rings, articulated C#/G# and alternate Eb/Ab lever) appears in your 1950s brochure pages.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-11-16 13:57
Yay, Suzie!
What jumped out to me was that the student 'Bel Canto' could be had for $179, but you could buy a 'pro' "Brilliante" for $250!!
If only we could buy an R-13 for 30% more than a B-12, or an Opus for 30% more than a Vito!!
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-16 14:24
I have a similar Kohlert-Winnenden brochure from the early 1960s which lists their alto and bass clarinets as well as soprano clarinets; the prices are also rather enticing (of course, we've had probably more than 500% inflation in the intervening 40+ years.......).
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Author: susieray
Date: 2010-11-16 15:35
The top of the line Penzel *Super Brilliant* was $300 in that catalog so there was more of a price difference between that one and the Bel Canto.
Just for comparison purposes, in the Buffet brochure that I have from the 1960's, the R13 was priced at $395, the E13 at $229, the wooden Evette at $169.50 and the plastic Evette at $134.50.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-17 02:58
Fabulous! Thanks very much!
That just leaves the "Trailblazer" and perhaps a few other model names to explain...!
Klarnetisto
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-17 03:02
Yes, I remember how when I was a student in the early 1970s, Buffet R-13s were $440. I played a plastic Schreiber (which my private teacher loathed!) which cost $140. Typical plastic Bundys were about $125 then, I think.
Klarnetisto
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-11-17 08:55
I have a couple PM Brilliantes that I think are really great sounding and intonation, but the key positions are not great for me. The pinky keys are very short and so are my pinkys... not a good combination.
Overall I think that they are really well made mechanically, though.
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Author: vintschevski
Date: 2010-11-17 12:35
I'm pretty sure that the Trailblazer and Pacemaker models are actually Penzel clarinets (Georg Penzel, I think) rather than Penzel-Mueller - it's the same Penzel, but those models were made, I assume, prior to the partnership with Mueller. But I could be wrong..............
I am aware of 2 other Penzel-Mueller models: a Dynatone (I have one somewhere) and a Jean Aubert.
I rather like the Empires, good value for the money, at least in my experience (I've got 3 or 4 of them) and the Super-Brilliante is certainly a fine clarinet.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-17 14:35
"My P-M Artist model is labeled Jean Aubert, Paris."
I'm curious, what makes you think your clarinet is a P-M Artist Model? I'd be very surprised if an American clarinet manufacturer made 'stencil' instruments for a French label. In every case I'm aware of, the opposite situation existed.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-18 02:08
I'll be getting the P-M Artist/Aubert back from the shop soon, and can have a look at it then.
Klarnetisto
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-24 02:54
I got the clarinet back.
The upper joint and bell both read:
Jean Aubert
PENZEL-MUELLER
NEW YORK
TORONTO
PARIS
The serial number is on the upper joint under the third right upper trill key:
U4103B
The mouthpiece reads:
Artist
MODEL
PENZEL-MUELLER
LONG ISLAND CITY NY
The lower joint has:
FRANCE
Klarnetisto
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2010-11-24 03:23
Probably just the mouthpiece is the Artist model. If the mouthpiece has "Artist" written in fairly large script then it's probably a pretty good mouthpiece. I think they were made by Woodwind Co. for P-M.
Sounds like this clarinet may have been made for P-M by another company or perhaps there was some export weirdness going on. As far as I know all P-M's were made in the US although I have heard that a lot of the keywork was imported from Germany in the early days. I've never heard of P-M being connected with France.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-11-24 10:33
Yes, it could well be that P-M put their Artist mouthpiece on this Aubert clarinet -- or maybe a subsequent owner did. "Artist" is in large script, the rest in small block capitals.
Klarnetisto
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-11-24 16:32
Actually, it's not just P-M, who might have made clarinets for the french market. The French Metal Clarinet site (http://www.clarinette-metal.fr/les%20differents%20fabricants.htm) lists quite a few clarinets made by Bettoney; Leon Aubert, some Robert Durand, La Chapelle, Lebret, and Chauvet.
Wouldn't surprise me if Klarnetisto's Jean Aubert was made by Penzel-Mueller, as seems to be a possibility from the Upper Joint logo's. Mouthpieces usually don't mean diddly, except that this one may well be original to the horn, with the P-M markings.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-12-04 21:54
But my P-M says "made in France." It seems rather to be a Penzel-Mueller imported from Aubert of Paris.
It's wood, BTW. I love good metal clarinets, mind you. This just isn't one of them.
Klarnetisto
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2010-12-25 05:40
Lets not forget the Clari-met models, which were professional quality metal clarinets offered by Penzel Mueller from 1913 (or a little earlier) to some time in the 1930s (I think.) Most Clari-met models were double walled and some had extra keywork. I also have a Clari-met that is single walled.
The American Gloritone was marked "PM" which I am pretty sure stood for Penzel Mueller. Progressive Music also made band instruments but I have never seen evidence that they made metal clarinets. Some of the American Gloritone models had copper bells, brass bodies and nickel plated keys. Striking! Based on my sample of one, these were pretty good student models.
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Author: none
Date: 2011-02-22 20:16
I can add the "Professional" to the list of P-M clarinet models. It's a cheaper version of the "Artist's Model" in that it has no silver-plated keys nor blue-steel needle springs. It probably predates the latter model as well.
janeandgary@rogers.com
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Author: Fornax7
Date: 2015-02-09 14:38
Bell on my Studio Recording Model reads:
Studio
Recording
Model
Penzel Mueller
New York
Toronto
Paris
My Soloist upper reads:
Soloist
Model
Penzel Mueller
New York
Toronto
Paris
Above the register key reads:
MADE IN FRANCE
My Pacemaker reads:
G.PENZEL
NEW YORK
PACEMAKER
fornax7@gmail.com
Post Edited (2015-02-09 15:10)
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Author: Fornax7
Date: 2015-02-09 15:19
I saw a photo of a silver(?) metal clarinet.
The bell reads:
AMERICAN
GLORITONE
PENZEL-MUELLER
L.I.CITY,N.Y.
fornax7@gmail.com
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-02-09 23:21
I played a Super Brillante during HS from about 1968-70. Bright and centered sound. Intonation fair, but on sharp side. Silver plating on keys wore off in a few months. Developed a crack from the register vent. I borrowed a Normandy, a Noblet Model 40 or Leblanc LL to play most of the time while finishing HS.
Seems like the PM retailed for about $330.00 in those days, and my parents bought it for less than 1/2 price at a music store going out of business. I wanted a Selmer 9* or Leblanc LL. (That was before the Selmer series 10 came to my attention) ... It was the difference between $400.00 for the pro clarinets and $150.00 for the closed out PM ...
I think I gave the PM away when I bought my first Evette E13 in the late 1970s, which I kept until about 1986 ...
Tom
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Author: blazian
Date: 2016-07-22 22:26
Pulled out a 1967 catalog that I just happen to have (as an old library book) and it has quite a few models with specs with prices.
Attachments to follow since I'm forgetful...
- Martin
Post Edited (2016-07-22 22:37)
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Author: Clarineteer
Date: 2017-12-21 13:09
Is the Studio Recording model the top of the line and I wonder why none of the catalogs list that model. Maybe it was never available to the public.
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