 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: thomasbrindle
Date: 2010-09-13 18:23
Hi!
I've been reading this forum for a while, but this is my first post.
I've been playing the clarinet for nearly 20 years, mostly self-taught, mostly classical. I'm a bit confused about stacatto, and about how I do it. I've heard about anchor tonguing and double tongiing. I'm not sure if I'm doing one of these? I do tonguing with my tonsils. It works pretty well up until A5. Does anybody else tongue this way?
Thanx
Tom
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2010-09-13 19:28
Staccato just means separating the notes. How one does this on the clarinet is called tonguing. Most clarinetists touch the forward tip of their tongue just below the tip of the reed. The length of time the tongue stops the reed from vibrating makes the articulation staccato or tenuto or legato tonguing or whatever.
It sounds like you're stopping the air by closing your throat. Albanian folk clarinetists use this technique and I'm amazed that I can't hear the difference between their articulation and "normal" tonguing.
I'd advise getting a teacher, because I'd recommend learning the "normal" kind of tonguing in addition to your throat tonguing. Typically it will be lots clearer, because you'll be able to keep the air moving and have it ready to vibrate the reed immediately when the tongue leaves it. Otherwise there is usually a slight delay in sound while the air moves from the closed throat up to vibrate the reed again.
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2010-09-13 19:49
Hi Thomas,
I'm pretty good at staccato, and have been successful in teaching HS students to be good at it.
Tonguing is really a misnomer, for the tone starts when you remove the tongue from the reed, not when you put it there.
I teach tonguing as the word TAUGHT, not DEE, not TEE.
On the T portion the tongue is on the reed. Say the word TAUGHT real slowly. You'll note the tip of the tongue is far forward and touches the upper teeth. When you reach the AU part the tongue is away from the reed, allowing it vibrate. To transfer this to playing, requires just a little practice, brushing / touching the reed and not the upper teeth.
For legato tongueing, use only the first portion of the word TAU. Say it repeatedly and slowly and smoothly, stretching it out: Taaauu, Taaauu. Then try it on the instrument. Start your support and air flow while the tongue is on the reed, and then soft and gently "taaauu, taaauu, taaauu".
For dry staccato, practice by saying quickly and sharply, and with accent:
Taut! Taut! Taut! Taut! Taut! Taut! Taut! Taut! Taut!
Here the tongue is initially on the reed, and then pulls back on the AU part, and immediately returns to the reed on the terminal T, thus stopping the sound. Throughout your air is still flowing. You don't stop the air flow. The air will often leak out the side of your mouth in the short, dry staccato, but don't be concerned with that, for the air you hear will not be audible 5 feet away.
Hope this helps. It does with the HS students, but then in that scenario I can demonstrate, and listen and correct. :-) Oh, one of my HS students just went off to college. He called that he got 3rd chair, 1st clarinets, in the Wind Ensemble. He was thrilled. Ahead of him are 2 seniors, and here he is a freshman. I'm so proud of him!
vJoe
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Author: thomasbrindle
Date: 2010-09-13 20:51
Dear Katrina,
Thank you for your interesting advises. I will try what you said, but I think it's too difficult for me because I'm not doing it this way normally. Anyways I will try.
I must be doing the throat stacatto that you say. Like I said, it works for most of the range of the instrument.
What I don't understand from what you said is about stopping the air. I stop the air with my tonsils, OK. But do you not stop the air with the tongue?
Thanks,
Tom
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2010-09-13 22:03
You don't stop the air with your tongue. You keep the air flow going, but you stop the vibration of the reed with your tongue. It's best to practice this very slowly at first. While blowing, put the tip of your tongue on the tip of the reed, so the sound stops, but keep blowing. When you take your tongue off the reed, your sound should resume without any pause. Like I said, this takes slow practice to get the concept down before working up to speed. I used to tongue like you do, but my teacher sorted me out and now I'm tonguing faster than I would have thought possible!
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2010-09-13 22:24
Just a point about "words" with articulation:
The only difference (for me) when I say "Taught" or "Tee\Dee" slowly is the position of the tongue. "Taught" puts the tongue in a lower position, not great.
"dee" or "tee" have the advantage of keeping the tongue close by. Taught a bit more movement with the tongue back and forth which isn't good for most purposes.
There is certainly no one right way to articulate all the time. If we only articulate one way all the time, we can't meet the demands of the music. Moving our tongue to slightly different parts of the reed, using slightly different syllables (deet, teee, etc.) are necessary to meet the needs of the music.
Generally, I would stay away from moving the tongue very far back, unless under extreme circumstances (some modern repertoire requiring extreme force). String players stay close to the string for most articulations because the higher up they go, the harder it is to control. It's a lot of work to bring the bow down from a few inches up to make a nice soft articulation or play articulated notes in quick succession. In a similar fashion, it's to our advantage and benefit to keep the tongue close to the reed as often as possible.
As for the OP: Articulating with the throat will limit speed and variety of articulation styles. Get a teacher and learn "proper" tonguing and you won't regret it once you get used to it.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-09-14 12:18
>>I do tonguing with my tonsils. >>
Do you mean that you're more or less articulating "keh keh keh" with the back of your tongue touching the top of your throat? If so, that's what we mean by anchor tonguing.
I got into the bad habit of anchor-tonguing as a child, because I had no private teacher and didn't know any better. I un-learned this bad technique with difficulty in high school and I agree with the people who've recommended that you learn taut-taut-taut instead. You can go a lot faster and more smoothly that way.
But as an adult amateur, I'm not sorry I learned to anchor tongue, because it comes in handy as half of the double-tonguing technique for even more speed. Double-tonguing means articulating ta-ka ta-ka ta-ka, with triple-tonguing ta-ta-ka ta-ta-ka ta-ta-ka. Some people will swear on their best reeds that you can't double-tongue or triple-tongue on a clarinet, but that's balderdash. I suspect people who think that way grew up without learning to anchor-tongue at all, then found it hard to learn it as a new technique as adults. So, on the bright side, you do need to learn conventional tonguing, but you're already halfway to double-tonguing.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-14 18:00
I never heard of that. Check my tonguing - staccato page on my website, it might give you some insight on the "proper" way to tongue. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-09-14 19:08
I think he is describing the use of the tonsillar pillars (the folds surrounding the tonsilar fossae) to impact on the reed.
It is tricky, but worth the effort the learn.
What you have to do is train the internal pterygoid musculature to articulate in sequence, left then right. The palatoglossus, which elevates the tongue during swallowing is used to pull down the fossae folds and extend them forward to meet the reed.
In this manner you can quadruple tongue...double tongue with the tongue, then right/left alternating the tonsils.
BTW, since it is the lateral pillars of the tonsilar fossae that do the work, you can still have a tonsilectomy and achieve facility with this method.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2010-09-15 12:04
Thanks Lelia.....my first Band Director called it "cheating" when he discovered me doing it. However, I had gotten pretty good at it before he caught me.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2010-09-15 12:53
Alseg, could you please elaborate on your medical terminology for this layperson?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-09-18 16:03
Or, just swing your tongue from side to side and break most all speed records.....
If you do it naturally, it's really easy and ultra quick.
Most tongues don't work that way, and it can't be developed much for someone who doesn't have that ability.
Keith Stein did, but not a lot of players I've met have been able to do that.
Extra muscle or lack of a restrictor maybe???
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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