 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DWaugh
Date: 2010-05-11 16:16
Are any of the low C bass clarinets under $2k worth purchasing? I have looked online at the Orpheo, Barrington, and Vento, but can't seem to find reviews on any of them. I assume they are all made in the same place, but could be wrong there as well.
I am a doubler and really don't need a Selmer or Buffet, so was looking for something that would play pretty well and not empty the bank account I just want something that goes to low C and hopefully plays as well or better than my old Vito Reso-tone.
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-05-11 16:36
I've worked on chinese bass clarinets that extend to low c. In my opinion they are not worth buying.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-05-11 17:27
Any opinions on Kessler and Ridenour?
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: dibble
Date: 2010-05-11 19:55
I have a ridenour low c. Had it repaired several times. Always goes out of adjustment easily. I gave up. construction is weak. Many prominent repairmen feel the same. Now it is in the closet. Wooden ones sound much deeper too. Get a used wooden leblanc, IMO, if you don't mind a low Eb. Please read previous posts on this instrument. There are many opinions of all sorts about it.
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Author: davetrow
Date: 2010-05-12 01:23
The Kessler low-C has gotten a qualified thumbs-up from some on this board. I know of one professional who has been using it in pit ensembles for about two years.
Dave Trowbridge
Boulder Creek, CA
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Author: DWaugh
Date: 2010-05-12 02:39
I read that the early Ridenour models had very soft keywork. I had hoped the more recent basses from China had those issues corrected, which is why I was hoping to find some current reviews.
The Kessler is on the higher end of the budget models, but might be worth the difference, since the reviews I have found on them have been favorable. Those are showing as out of stock currently though.
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2010-05-12 03:15
I'm into my third season at the Stratford Shakespeare Festival using a Kessler low C bass.
I've had a couple of pads replaced due to voids in the glue, and had the lower neckstrap lug repositioned. Other than that, any other work has been in the category of normal wear and tear.
Overall, I'm quite please with the Kessler bass for the work I do. YMMV.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-05-12 03:53
I haven't tried any under the Western names but have tried several from Chinese makers. All the ones I tried seemed to have the exact same design. I thought they had terrible ergonomics, this was the main reason I wouldn't want one. Also quality wasn't great, by far worse than Chinese saxophones (or even soprano clarinets) which had amazing improvements recently. The tone was ok, not bad, but not what I'd want. Mechanics had some problems too. I also checked the intonation on one instrument thoroughly and mostly it wasn't bad, but not as good as the professional models from Buffet and Selmer. I thought some people might be able to use this if interested ,but it was definitely not an instrument I'd want to play as long as I can play the instrument I want.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2010-05-14 17:28
Lelia Loban wrote:
> You might also want to look at used instruments. Basses are
> harder to find used than the smaller clarinets, but the savings
> can be substantial.
>
Very true. I was searching for a decent used bass for months before finally finding one recently. There are huge numbers of Bundy's and Vito's out there (usually old school instruments in poor condition) but not nearly as many intermediate or better quality instruments. FWIW I only encountered a few low-C basses during my search and they were all selling for ~75% of the price of a new one.
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2010-05-15 00:21
Lets try this again? post disappeared, don't you hate it when that happens!
I have never played on a Kessler or Ridenour Low C Bass. I do however play Ridenours BBb Contra and I have his bassett A. neither of which have any keywork issues that are reported on his older horns. Tom will even say that the newer horns he offers have better keywork that the older horns.
I have also heard good reviews of the kessler Low c. which possibly is made in the same factory as the Ridneours. I have seen copies of Toms horns on the net that the factory is selling. I asked Tom about it and he did say that every horn he sells gets checked out and has adjustments before shipping. He said that many times they are not adjusted correctly in the factories. I have read somewhere that Kessler goes over his horns before they are sold also.
Both of the sellers I believe offer a trial period. you could order one and try it out and ship it back if you are not comfortable with it. I know Tom has a inhouse 4 month payment play which is nice too. Not sure about kessler.
I would not hesitate personally on trying either. I think that Kesslers is the cheaper of the 2. Compare the pictures they look almost identical.
I personally when in the market for a new bass did not look a Low C model but went with a Eb. at the time I was unsure of the basses and most recomendations I got were for the Yamaha 221II which is what I went with and am loving it. If I had the money for another bass that was going to be primary and a horn that i would play on paying gigs I would look at the Yamaha LowC just for the personal experiences I have had with other Yamaha clarinets. which the bass is a couple grand cheaper than the Buffet. but if I was wanting a low C for sporatic use but had to have the range I would looke into either of the sellers listed above. Ridenours for the experience I have had with them and the Kessler for the great reviews it has gotten.
Just my 2 cents.
Bobby
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: dibble
Date: 2010-05-19 02:53
I think that if the Ridenour Lyrique low c bass was built well with good glue behind pads, had stronger metal for keys and had screws that are not loose out of box, then the horn would be worth the $. I think rubber does not sound better than wood but sounds better than plastic. It's kind of an opaque sound. It's strange. They can be focused, due to design I think, but the color is pastel-like compared to wood.
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2010-05-19 04:05
dibble have you played one of the recent lyriques? I have not has any pad, screw of soft key metal issues on the ridenour horns that I have.
Since we are on the supject of budget low C basses now one has brought up the Amati low C that is on sale at wwbw. andy comments on that horn? the only Amati that I have played is the C soprano clarinet which I own.
Bobby
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: dibble
Date: 2010-05-19 04:24
Mine is bout 2 years old. Also, are you talking about bass clarinets?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-05-19 06:36
>> have not has any pad, screw of soft key metal issues on the ridenour horns that I have. <<
Most players (I would say 90%+ at least) are not really able to judge this. I don't know if you can or not. I've seen many players of the highest level not aware of many mechanical issues with their instruments. I've seen instruments with practically nothing but praises on forums, only to find a lot of problems that were never mentioned when I actually checked them. So it's hard to know the real mechanical and design issues of an instrument based on review of players.
>> Since we are on the supject of budget low C basses now one has brought up the Amati low C that is on sale at wwbw. andy comments on that horn? <<
I've tried several Amati bass clarinets, both low Eb and low C. I would say they were definitely better than any Chinese bass clarinet I've tried so far, but maybe not better value. I might prefer to go with the Chinese low C (which I don't especially like at all) for less than half. If I wanted a better instrument I'd pass the Amati and instead invest in a truely good one.
For review of Amati bass clarinet, first you can see the review on my website. You can use Google Language Tool to translate to English. http://www.nitailevi.com/reviews/clarinets/amati/amati_bass_acl691.htm
I also found a summary of my review that I posted on this forum here http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=264080&t=131689
If I remember both of these were written before I tried other Amati bass clarinets including the low C model. After that my opinion is pretty much the same except I consider it even a bit less value.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2010-05-19 17:36
Perhaps I am a bit impatient after coming back unrested from a trip, I think there is a point of diminishing returns in this discussion. I seem to recall in "Cassals, the art of Interpretation" (?) by Blum, that P. Cassals talked about preferring not to have the finest instruments, but playing well independent of the instrument or maybe to be challenged by the mediocre quality of it. I upgraded last year from a low-hundreds auction special (which was clearly limiting me) to a Ridenour 925C primarily for intonation as I play over the entire range (written C3 - C7) with other (often higher register) instruments, and find for my budget, skill and playing opportunities that it is a good trade-off. Reportedly Tom R. will adjust or customize per your request, and I will find out if that is true in the next few months when I return mine to him to tweek a few notes.
I guess a question for the group is if there is any evidence that one horn (other than the Eb - C difference) made a difference between getting the gig or not, (or inspired or discouraged you) and what horns made the difference. For me, the 925C opened a door of opportunities that made it a good buy. Perhaps the others mentioned would have as well. I think like an owner of a good vintage sports car, a bass owner needs to be a bit of a mechanic. Ridenour has some design quirks, but for 1/3 the price seem livable-with or fixable. Maybe at some point I can play well enough get the gigs that financially justify the Buffet or Selmer, but at this point it I think it is up to me, not my horn.
Good luck
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Author: DWaugh
Date: 2010-06-07 03:38
I purchased a Barrington low C bass that has a broken key. Once I get that fixed and the instrument setup properly, I will have a better idea how well it plays. Finding reviews on the Chinese made basses is nearly impossible.
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Author: DWaugh
Date: 2010-06-11 14:49
The Barrington low C bass arrived 2 days ago. The broken key was just the connection between the low D lever and the rod. Pretty much all the pinky keys were bent, some severely. I suspect most of the problem is due to poor case design, as these keys, especially the left hand pinky keys, have no support in the case.
From low G up, it actually played pretty well. I can't wait to hear the bottom notes, once repaired, as those wouldn't speak at all. The bent keys were causing a key in the upper stack to open, so nothing from about G down would play.
Do any of you have suggestions on how to better support the keys in the case? I think the Kessler low C bass comes with an extra foam block for this very issue. Maybe that is the solution I need to use as well.
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Author: DWaugh
Date: 2010-07-02 22:44
Well, the bass is back from the shop and seems to play pretty well. Intonation is good, except for the low C, which is very flat. I can lip it up enough to play in tune. Can this be corrected?
The action doesn't feel even, but not sure if that is common on low C basses. Some keys are harder to press than others. Otherwise, it seems to be a great deal for the money (for a doubler).
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-07-02 22:57
The low C tone hole should be on the bell. I'd suggest taking some duct tape, cutting narrow strips to put on the BOTTOM side of the tone hole. You can add several layers. This essentially moves the center of the tone hole towards the top of the instrument and might bring the pitch up enough so that you don't have to lip up. Make sure the tape doesn't interfere with the pad surface hitting the tone hole...........If this works, you could do something more permanent later.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-07-03 04:30
I think your suggestion, GLH, will bring up the pitch of the low C# rather than the low C --- because the lowest note comes out of the bell, not the lowest tonehole (rather, the C# note exits the tonehole).
To answer the question, there isn't much I can think of that would bring up just a flat low C if the notes immediately above it are reasonably in tune; other than drilling a vent hole in the bell (as I often do on soprano clarinets, and have done on the metal bell of one alto clarinet).
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Author: DWaugh
Date: 2010-07-03 22:19
The last tone hole is on the body, not the bell (no key on the bell). I didn't realize they were made this way until I received mine.
I was thinking the only way to realistically sharpen the low C would be to shorten the body (shave off a little of the body to allow the bell to slide on further.)
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