 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-12-02 15:00
I had an enjoyable few hours this weekend playing a 2-year-old Amati 692S bass clarinet (w/range to low-C) graciously loaned by Graham Golden of Graham's Music in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I can't believe this instrument was made by the same company that was selling godawful Third-World trash disguised as musical instruments just a decade-and-a-half ago! The modern version is a fine instrument which is 95% of the way towards being a truly excellent bass clarinet. Permit me to elaborate.......
Overall, I found this Amati to be a nicely-made instrument with quality wood, with a nice smooth and polished bore (even on the very long lower joint) --- commendable! The keywork is 'old-style', rather thin and bendable like just about every bass clarinet prior to the very latest Selmer and Buffet horns, but not too bad as long as one is very careful, especially when assembling the two body joints. I won't comment on the 'fit-and-finish' of the corks and such, as this particular instrument has been well used and travelled over the past two years (sort of a 'travelling demo' model), some of the key corks are torn or have fallen off altogether and the tenon corks all need replacement, but that has nothing to do with the instrument and it's not relevant to this discussion. The silver plating looks nice, and overall I think it's a well-made and well-designed instrument, except for a couple of things (the last 5% that Amati needs to do):
A) The 'small sound' that some folks have ascribed to the Amati bass clarinet is present to a degree BUT I believe it is NOT a function of the relatively small bore (listed as .903", compared to .920" for the Selmer and Yamaha, ? for the Buffet 1193, .935" for my Kohlert, and .945" for the Leblancs); instead it's (IMHO) the result of two things:
1) None of the toneholes are undercut, as far as I could tell from removing a couple of 'randomly-chosen' keys;
2) The key heights are generally much too low, especially for the larger pads at the bottom. I took the liberty (sorry Graham!) of trimming a few key corks to slightly raise the opening heights of some of the lowest pads, and it made an immediate improvement. More of this is needed, and Graham has told me that the latest 692 basses he is selling have this and some other improvements made, including the tonehole undercutting (by him, not the the factory, unfortunately).
B) The linkage to the lowest (bell) key is just plain wrong --- with the bell at a normal angle relative to the neck, thumbrest and strap hook, the lateral lever which operates the bell key just barely engages the key along the linkage (way too close to the pivot and way too far from the end of the lever) ---- thus there is much too short a 'lever arm' and the bell key opens insufficiently. Conversely, with the bell key positioned near the end of the lever where it should be, the bell is pointing about 45-degrees to the right --- an odd design screwup.
Gripes aside, the instrument is remarkably free-blowing in all registers, has an excellent clarion register response and intonation (among the best I've ever played), has a fine throat Bb, and has good intonation all around except for some sharpness in the throat tones (easily correctable, and better than flatness on those notes), and three of the very lowest notes are quite flat (the lowest C#, D, and Eb) ---- the lowest C is right on, as are just about all the notes (except the aforementioned throat tones) above the low chalumeau Eb. Not bad at all! Tone-wise, it could be bigger and my guess is that the aforementioned tonehole undercutting and key height raising will enlarge and darken the sound to an acceptable level. I'd say the Amati 692 is worth a try, especially for the price (around $3500 US) and with the "aftermarket" improvements Graham is making to his horns.
Dave Spiegelthal
Calverton, VA
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-12-02 15:53
Velly interesting, Dave, good description of Spiegel-izing, and Gplden-izing, I also Berger-ize all of my horns, and do a bit on others! Having a 3/4 Full Boehm '70s Selmer [no "fork" Eb/Bb] to low Eb [only], what does the Amati have? Alt. Ab/Eb, Art. C#/G#, must have Low Eb, what for register [and throat Bb] mechanisms?? Yamaha has a couple of {US} patents on reg/Bb mechanisms, the latest I know of, but haven't seen or heard of their use. If you want to analyze/compare, and cant find the pats on USPTO [they may be about to expire in the US, other co's??], I'll look them up for you. Have you discussed the Amati on "bass-clarinet@Yahoogroups.com", with those pro's, yet? TKS, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-12-02 16:50
Thanks Dave...Very helpful and descriptive.
Many of your impressions were similar to mine when I did a brief review of the Amati ACL 675 full Boehm A clarinet:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=78073&t=78073
I had a few suggestions for improvement as well, which I forwarded along to Graham. Most needed on the full Boehm was to move the right pinky low Eb key further away from the other 4 right pinky keys. I felt that it was too close to the right pinky E/B. I since had my tech make the correction.
Overall, the Amati line continues to impress and seems to be a very respectable clarinet alternative to the Big 4. For the price, they are certainly good value.
I know that Graham stands behind all the Amatis he sells and is more than willing to go the extra mile to insure complete satisfaction. Even though I did not purchase my Amati from him, he has contacted me numerous times for my input and offered to fix any small problem which I found.
As a lifetime Buffet player who owns numerous R-13's, the Amati is a nice change, with its own idiosyncrasies and personality...GBK
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2003-12-03 01:32
I tested the clarinet in question just before Dave tried it. My observation was that it played very evenly, and the intonation was good. I was critical of the sound--it seemed anemic to me, but the horn was of interest to me, nevertheless. If I had needed a horn, which I didn't, I would have wanted to investigate this one further. I had the impression that key height was an issue that hadn't been satisfactorily addressed, and that with the right tweaks, the horn might be extremely worthwhile.
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-12-03 02:13
Maybe I should offer my services as the Aussie rep for Amati ???
David, a fine review (you're very erudite and concise) how was the key work, though? (clackety, basically noiseless, or bone shuddering?).
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-12-03 13:29
diz,
Thanks, you are very kind -- as for keywork noise and play, I can't fairly comment because according to its owner, the Amati bass had visited a large number (ca. 20) of other players prior to my time with it, over a two-year period, so there was quite a bit of wear on the instrument. I don't worry much about keywork noise and play because these are not inherent design flaws, they are details which are easily corrected by any competent tech.
Sounds like Oz could use an Amati rep!
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-12-03 15:57
See here, diz, this may be your last chance for that new career. I may decide to move there and do it myself unless you grab that opportunity quickly.
Regards,
John
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-12-03 16:35
I'd move there too, if I could find it.......(it's like WAY down on the bottom of my map, I can hardly see it.......)
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-12-03 16:41
Daave, yah got to turn it over--it's on the backside--down under!
Bob A
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-12-03 19:56
David, thanks - might be an alternative to the big four - which are expensive, but still not a viable option here without an importer ... our Tax man is very greedy and very diligent.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2003-12-03 19:58)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-12-03 20:00
diz ---- I simply wasn't aware there WERE places outside the U.S. --- you mean, like Mars and Pluto and the Czech Republic and other planets like that?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-01-20 06:41
While checking an Amati bass clarinet recently I looked for other reviews and found this thread, so I thought I'll add mine too.
The model I checked was the 691 low Eb bass clarinet. I think it is approx. a couple of years old and wasn't played much at all. A friend of mine, a saxophonist, borrowed it to play for a while and see if he wants to play bass clarinet and buy a "good one".
It had the same problem with the alignment of the bell that Dave mentioned. Also the upper register mechanism is designed (and/or built) in a way that the alignement of the neck has to be very exact for it to work (it's possible to improve this a little).
When I got the clarinet the clarion was unplayable and many other notes only played with a very strong grip. I don't know for sure if the instrument came this way from factory or if it was caused later by the player but I'm guessing a combination of both. I won't be surprised if some of it happened while the instrument was in the case considering how soft the keys are.
Several keys were bent, including side levers and keys in the register mechanism which was a big part of the clarion not playing. One bent key was obviously from someone not being careful when assembling the two joints but it is built in a way that you need to be especially careful! It wasn't a big surprise it got bent considering how difficult it was the assemble the pieces - mostly because of slightly too thick tenon corks, and on the bottom one the tenon itself too wide. Also the middle tenon was slightly longer than the socket (but only very little.
The setup was pretty awful. Many pads weren't seating level and needed to be adjusted (and one replaced). Several tone holes had chips missing with one being especially bad. The adjustment of stack keys closing together, etc. was also terrible. The instrument had cork for all keys and linkages which is ok I guess but not as good as some other materials which made the adjustment much better and less squishy feel. Several keys had a lot of end play.
When disassembling keys some of them had gooey stuff left from (a bad) oil which caused friction. A couple of the rods were not the exact correct size and had a bit too much friction (they weren't bent, and neither were those keys). Also some flat springs (for example for the throat A key) digged into the wood (already after this short time with almsot no use) and created the usual bump - mainly because of poor setup of that spring.
After everything was more or less as good as it can be the clarinet played pretty good. I didn't check intonation thoroughly with a tuner but I didn't notice any major problems, it was very ok. The sound was pretty decent too, although not as good as pro instruments from Buffet and Selmer (though it was definitely a little different and fun to play). The response of all the registers was very good. It could possibly be even a tiny bit better with a slightly larger upper register hole. I pretty much agree with Dave's comments here.
The stock mouthpiece was very bad and almost any decent inexpensive student mouthpiece would be much better, but at the price of this instrument players already have or can probably afford a good mouthpiece anyway.
It's hard to say whether I recommend this instrument or not. Even for the price in the USA (and here it costs more) it's a little disapointing because of the soft and flimsy keys and the miserable setup (I guess it's possible that not all of them come like this). Considering all of this and the price, it's not exactly clear to me what is the market for this instrument.
Post Edited (2008-01-21 06:19)
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-01-21 09:22
clarnibass's impression of the low E flat Amati bass certainly does not accord with my view of a low C Amati which I bought in 2004. First, the bell alignment is not a problem on that instrument. It just appears to be, but if the bell is pointed straight out, it does work fine. Also, the keys are not soft on the low C model. It is true that the screwing in is not really tight enough and the instrument rattles. However, that does not translate into poor or difficult closure when set up properly. I have played mine quite a bit since I got it and have not had it overhauled. Every so often, one has to get out a screw driver and do some tightening but not too much of that. It is not going out of adjustment.
The sound is very different to the modern French instruments. It is tighter and buzzier. You either like it or you don't. If you want a fat sound then it is worth paying out for Buffet or Selmer. Note for low C people, the lower notes are not fully automated but require the E key to be depressed for D and below.
The instrument is tuned to A = 444, which of course is sharp for most people. It recognises the fact that their core market is Eastern European. It will play down to pitch when pulled out, and mostly seems not to suffer tuning iregularities as a result. However, the bell B over the break undoubtedly is very sharp.
It probably does not compare in many ways with the leading more expensive models but it has a particular way about it which is very persuasive.
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Author: graham
Date: 2018-10-13 21:34
Ten years on from my last post, I think it’s worth mentioning that, despite regular playing of my Amati bass throughout that time I have never had a regulation issue, and have never had it looked at by a technician. The above points remain relevant of course, and this is not a reliable guide about their current crop of basses. I now play on a more open facing than I used to use, and it seems to respond better in most situations accordingly.
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