 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Pam
Date: 2010-03-01 13:25
My 15 year old daughter is wanting to purchase an Eb clarinet and she has found 3 within her price range. One is Venus, one is Cibaili and one is Berkley. I've been searching but have not been able to find out any good information on any of them. I've seen mixed reviews on the Venus, nothing on the Cibaili and nothing on the Berkley (which is where I think I would lean) Does anyone know anything about these? I don't want to see her spend a ton of money until she know that she wants to pursue this instrument, but at the same time, she is a freshman currently playing a Buffet E11 with the seniors in the high school in their elite Wind Ensemble, so it needs to be something that at least has decent intonation.
Any help would be great, as I spent all yesterday surfing looking for info for her
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-03-01 13:29
Caveat: I haven't played any of these makes, so feel free to skip my advice.
An Eb clarinet is hard enough to play without purchasing an instrument that isn't up to standard...especially from a pitch point of view. A professional Buffet Eb clarinet can have many pitch issues, so I would be careful to inspect this aspect of any instrument that you buy.
Any thought to buying a used pro Eb?
Any thought to upgrade the E11 to an R13?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Pam
Date: 2010-03-01 14:19
We are very open to purchasing a use pro EB, but she doesn't have $1000+ dollars to spend.
As for her existing, at some point we will upgrade to the R13, but I just bought the E11 new last year at the advice both her current and previous band instructors and both her private intructors (all of whom play professionally). They felt an E11 was a great next step for her (she also has a student model). They haven't provided much feedback on an Eb other than go with a buffet if money wasn't an issue....
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Author: Pam
Date: 2010-03-01 14:27
What about a Vintage Martin EB Albert? How would that compare to the ones listed above?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-03-01 14:31
I'm certain that more individuals will step in here who hopefully have personal experience with the models you're inquiring about.
It also sounds as if you have a great deal of experience on your daughter's side, which is excellent! Most people don't.
I might have some info - send me an email...I can see that you don't have an email address linked to your woodwind.org id.
tamesjobin@hotmail.com
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-03-01 14:45
Maybe a used Patricola?
Does Amati have any Eb clarinets. Or Leblanc
These are two good companies.
I wish Forte had one.....I will poke Dr Omar Henderson hard once he is finished his current project, whatever that might be.
Also consider used Selmer Eb from the 9 series....these were good horns, and available for less than the Recital Eb's.
Check with "cpaok"* and Walter Grabner and Vytas: They get nice used horns.
* contact me privately and I give you his email address.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: William
Date: 2010-03-01 14:58
Jame's advice is good. I would specifically recommend that you consider a used Selmer Bundy Resonite Eb clarinet--which would definately be a better choice than any of the off-brand ones that you have researched. And, it would probably fit nicely within your budget.
Remember, there is no Eb clarinet made--student line or pro--that plays in absolutely in tune. Pro models are a little more consistant than lesser quality instruments, however all have their own tuning problems and must be *played* in tune by the clarinetist. Just because a clarinetist can play a Bb or A soprano clarinet well does not insure that they can also play the dreaded little effer with equal skill. For most, it takes considerable time to learn to control them, especially in the upper register--and I mean years, not weeks, of practice and experiance. But, when mastered (or tamed), the little effer can be lots of fun to play. Good luck--hope this helps.
FWIW: My main Eb clarineti is a Yamaha 681 with a Fobes extention. But I also have an old Bundy Resonite effer that plays very nicely (or almost *good*) Both have been used in symphony orchestral settings.
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Author: ISM
Date: 2010-03-01 15:00
Pam,
I've never heard of the three brands you mention. I would definitely advise that you try before you buy any of these. A good quality wood Eb is expensive--new or used. You might want to consider a used Yamaha, LeBlanc, or Selmer plastic student model in good condition. They can be had for something like $200 at auction.
Imre
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-03-01 15:28
I'd say avoid ALL three brand names you mentioned in the thread title.
Look out for a used Bundy, Vito, Noblet or similar Eb clarinet, or search for a used Buffet (R13/RC), Leblanc, Yamaha or Selmer (Paris) Eb as you can't go wrong with the big names in clarinets - if they do need a full overhaul then you can still justify that (if you find one for a good price) as they're pro models.
The current Buffet E11 Ebs have earned themselves very good reviews, so well worth considering as they will be a good long term instrument.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Pam
Date: 2010-03-01 16:25
To those of you thank have requested my email, I've updated to show, but it is kelseypj1@msn.com
Thanks
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2010-03-01 19:22
I'd say the Selmer Bundy would be a great inexpensive choice. That was the only Eb I owned in college, and it got me into the top wind ensemble. That was back in 1978, so even if you find an old one in good mechanical condition (nothing bent or broken), the most you'll need is a cleaning and repad.
I've also tried the Amati about a year ago and was quite impressed. We were actually looking for a Bundy for a student but couldn't find one anywhere. The Amati was only about $700 brand new and had intontation that rivals the top-of-the-line Yamahas (681II and 881). My only complaint was that the keys felt a bit cramped even though they don't feel cramped at all on my Yamaha. My hands are on the large size, so smaller hands should feel comfortable on the Amati. I didn't try the mouthpiece that came with the Amati, but my bet is that you will want to replace it. As always try it first if you don't already have a good Eb m/p. The Amati is wood, so it will need more care than the Bundy.
A colleague of mine plays a Patricola and it is pretty nice, but you would have to keep an eye out for a used one.
I've never played Noblet that I liked, but you might get lucky, and they're practically giving those away these days.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-03-01 21:44
I have never heard of them. I just did a google run at Vento 800. You can get one new on Amazon for not a whole lot more than $500, but I have no idea if it is even worth that much.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2010-03-01 21:45)
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Author: clarinetcase
Date: 2010-03-01 22:47
I have actually played a Venus - avoid at all costs - poorly made and it was very out of tune, even after the owner had taken it to a rather good tech to correct the problem. Do not invest in an unknown brand. If you can't play it in an ensemble, it's no bargan. Be patient and go for a used brand name. Eventually, you'll find the right instrument.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-03-02 00:46
Iceland, it's not unknown, but Buffet really doesn't sell many of them over here.
Jeff
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2010-03-02 01:58
I concur with the proposal of a vintage Bundy. You can probably get one for about $400 from a reliable used instrument dealer and it's going to be so much better than a new bottom-shelf instrument.
(and definitely *don't* get an albert sysytem clarinet for a high school student.)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-03-02 05:21
Unless it's missing from their website, Buffet doesn't make a modern E13 Eb clarinet. They only list Bb and A.
jnk
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-03-02 05:28
I've been playing a Selmer Eb 9 series for about 25 years. As with all Eb horns they have have to be tamed with good reeds and a good mouthpiece. Once you find a good mouthpiece and your daughter wants to go into music in college, than maybe take a look at the Buffet R13's.
Although I haven't played Tom Ridinours clarinets, he offers a payment plan, interest free. I'm unsure of the details. He's been importing some pretty good horns from China. I guess he adjusts them before selling them, which takes away problems such as leaking pads, correct key placements, things of that nature. There are a lot of mixed feelings about his horns at a pro level, but from what I've read his horns are pretty darn good for students and advanced students. You of course can google his name and then give him a call for pricing.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-03-02 12:13
As James mentions, Tom Ridenour doesn't make an Eb instrument, and as far as I know, has no plans on introducing one any time in the foreseeable future.
Jeff
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Author: William
Date: 2010-03-02 15:26
There is currently a Selmer "plastic" Bundy available on the popular auction site. Plastic is what Selmer calls, Resonite. May be exactly what you are looking for.........hope all of our advice has helped, that's what we are here for :>)
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Author: Pam
Date: 2010-03-02 18:42
Thanks to all for the help on the Selmer Bundy. May be a great option that we are looking at.
I've still be searching for information on the quality of the Vento 800? Does anyone know anything about them?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-03-02 21:33
Dubious I'd say - chances are it's exactly the same instrument as the Venus and Ciabatta one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2010-03-03 02:15
Clarinuts.com has a reconditioned Evette-Schaeffer Eb for $833. They list is as a buffet in the index, since it's a high student line buffet.
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-03-03 02:51
The E&S Eb I had on loan for a couple of years was probably the best Eb I've ever played. I wish I had a reason to buy an Eb so I could buy that one from Clarinuts.
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Author: Pam
Date: 2010-03-04 12:11
Probably another stupid question, but would a reconditioned Selmer Bundy have the same intonation as a new one, or would there be additional pitch issues?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-03-04 12:17
Bearing in mind that no clarinet plays perfectly in tune with itself...
"Reconditioned" in the clarinet world does not have the same meaning as it does with electronics or other products. Reconditioned (and overhauled) usually means that the instrument has undergone an extensive amount of work done to return it to new (or better) condition.
New pads, new springs, etc, etc, are generally included.
If you're looking at buying an instrument that has been "reconditioned", you have every right to inquire of the seller what specifically they mean by the term.
The Selmer Bundy's intonation should not necessarily have changed for having the work done.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-03-04 13:15
Be aware that reconditioned can mean a variety of things - some people may consider a quick wipe over with an oily rag and blow the dust off it as reconditioned, some may consider a few pads and bits of cork replaced here and there as reconditioned.
Though in truth a reconditioned clarinet should have been completely stripped down and then rebuilt from the ground upwards so it is much better than a new instrument although it may still show signs of age (such as scratches picked up over time on the body and plating wear on the keys unless they've been replated), it should be both mechanically and structurally sound, and play like (or better than) a new one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: crsbryan
Date: 2010-03-04 15:32
This is not in any way an advertisement, I am mentioning specific dealers and web sites as references only.
I have held back from this discussion, as I have never played an Eb. I have also never played any products from the three companies mentioned.
Looking at www.wwbw.com as a reference, I see the least expensive new Eb they offer is a Selmer model 1405, plastic. I would assume this to be the modern equivalent to the Bundy plastic Eb, since Selmer has sold that name and trademark. This instrument, new from the discount sales site, is shown at list price of $1215.
A quick search turns up a Venus Eb available new on ebay with a buy-it-now price of $169.99.
In both cases, shipping is free.
I can only think that, if it is too good to be true, it probably is.
Post Edited (2010-03-04 15:35)
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Author: Pam
Date: 2010-03-04 18:42
what about older clarinets that have been through a good reconditioning vs an newer (used) one?
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Author: William
Date: 2010-03-05 14:59
A "reconditioned" instrument will play better because leaks have been sealed (new pads, corks, etc) and key action has been adjusted for optimum performance. Much like a car runs better after a tune up--plugs, timing, etc. However, the basic intonation will remain pretty much the same as before as this is more a result of accoustical configurations such as bore variations and tone hole dimension design, which is typically not addressed during reconditioning--nor should it be. "Older" vs "newer" is only relevant as it pertains to advances in key design and accoustical design, so basically an older reconditioned clarinet may very well play just as good (or better) than a newer used clarinet that is in good condition. It really all depends on how *good* that condition is, and not the age. It is not uncommon for a brand new professional level clarinet costing $3000 + just off the music store shelf to play terriblably due to sloppy pad and key adjustments not caught before shipping from the factory--much like the recent problems Toyota vehicals are experiancing.
Bottom line advice: AVOID the brand names you have been looking at and stick with Selmer, Leblanc, Yamaha, Buffet, Patricola, Amati, etc to name a few. These are manufactures whose quality has been proven to the majority of us as being *good*. My personal recommendation for quality and "best bang for your buck" is still a Selmer Bundy Resonite (plastic) Eb clarinet--used and reconditioned, older or newer doesn't matter. I recently allowed a college student to use my Bundy Eb clarinet during a concert series with he orchestra, and she loved it. As do I, when I am not playing my Yamaha 681 pro effer........take our advice, and good luck.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-03-28 15:31
I'm not familiar with Venus or Berkley, but I would suggest that the Cibaili should be avoided. I've had to sort out several, and they are not a well-made instrument. I wouldn't have one in the house.
Tony F.
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Author: clarinetcase
Date: 2010-03-28 22:27
Stay away from the Venus. Someone I knew bought one and it played very out of tune. After they spent a lot of money trying to correct the problem, they learned that the warning about staying away from unknown "great deal" brands is true. They ended up buying a good used instrument. Never asked what happened to the Venus.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-03-28 22:35
Given the quality of the Venus, it's probably ended up in a landfill, melted down, or turned into a lamp.
Jeff
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