 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2010-03-16 16:35
Hello everyone,
I am having a 5-key boxwood Lotz-copy made and the maker is kindly supplying me with alternate 12-key middle joints (for late classical/early romantic repertoire).
My question pertains to the fact that when an instrument features a throat F key, that key is on the right. When an instrument features an Eb/Bb key, that key is nearly alway a left sliver key.
However, with regards to the Eb/Bb key there have been some exceptions. The maker mentioned that Hermstedt's clarinet that he used for the works of Spohr had a right Eb/Bb key and he thinks he remembers an early Kruspe with a right Eb/Bb key.
I had envisioned a right Eb/Bb key on the 12-key upper joint but as the maker points out, it is not possible to have a right chromatic throat F *and* a right Eb/Bb key. The presence of the right F obliges the left sliver Eb/Bb key. But the Eb/Bb key can be put on the right if the throat F is put on the left.
Everyone I have asked about this, including the maker, suggests preserving the Eb/Bb key on the left and the throat F on the right.
Is there any reason to break with convention and request a right Eb/Bb key with a left sliver throat F?
Thank-you in advance for your thoughts.
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Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Artistic Director - Jeffery Summer Concerts
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-03-16 17:13
Simon -
Why is it impossible to have both keys for the right index finger? Every German clarinet I've seen has them both, as part of the trill key group. In fact, most German clarinetsw also have sliver keys for the left middle finger (for Eb/Bb) and the left index finger (for F/C).
Another possibility to is a vertical touch for the F/C extending further down the side so that it can be opened by the inside of the left middle finger. Steve Fox describes this at http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/basycl_art.htm.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2010-03-16 19:29
Ken - Thanks for your reply. Does everything you point out hold true if the instrument has a throat Bb-to-C trill key? (Meaning that the instrument would have 3 right-index-finger keys: an Eb/Bb, a throat F and a Bb-to-C trill key.)
Thanks,
Simon
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-03-16 19:36
Simon,
I don't think it would honestly work to have those two keys on the same side. I wouldn't be practical I don't think though I'm happy to be proved wrong. I believe that the F/C key is purely a trill key (I assume your wanting these for the late Classical, early Romantic) for those awkward E to F trills and extremely fast passages like the bit in the Gran Partita, the 2nd Clarinet in the last movement where there is those semi-quavers / 16ths right around that area.
Crusell had on of those on his instruments as did Baermann I'm sure.
I also think it has something to do with the proximity of the holes for those two trill keys.
Honestly not sure but I can't remember ever seeing a 12 keyed from the early 1800s with that configuration from any maker in Europe.
Good luck with it.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2010-03-16 23:03
"Is there any reason to break with convention and request a right Eb/Bb key with a left sliver throat F?"
One reason is that you will then no longer be playing on a reproduction of a historical instrument.
But then, having a Lotz copy with 12 keys isn't a reproduction of any historical instrument either.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2010-03-17 01:28
"Is there any reason to break with convention and request a right Eb/Bb key with a left sliver throat F?"
>One reason is that you will then no longer be playing on a reproduction of a >historical instrument.
I think the maker's point was that there is precedent. I would still be playing on a reproduction of a historical instrument. He has seen clarinets with a right Eb/Bb key and a left throat F. As I understand it putting the Eb/Bb key on the right and throat F on the left would make it similar to Hermstedt's clarinet that he used for the works of Spohr (among other historical instruments).
>But then, having a Lotz copy with 12 keys isn't a reproduction of any >historical instrument either.
The Lotz copy is the 5-key he is making. I asked if he could add joints for later music. You are correct in stating that the 12-key will no longer be a Lotz copy. Neither the maker not I claim it to be.
In passing, the maker said he would not make 12-key joints for copies of other makers (ie Grenser) but that Lotz was more forward-looking and progressive and it was within the spirit of Lotz's work to make alternate joints for his model of clarinet (my wording, not the maker's). The maker is sort of doing me a favor, so that I do not have to buy a separate 12-key instrument.
Simon
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2010-03-20 22:01
Thank-you everyone for your thoughts. I received the following response to the same question on another board. It is lucid and well-written and I thought those with little experience on a 10- or 12-key clarinet might find it interesting if not thought-provoking. It is reproduced here with permission from the author. (Ken and Peter, I imagine you have already read it).
Simon
"I'll leave the discussions of historical precedent for this key layout to everyone else, save the thought that in my experience, with German instruments of this period there's so much variety that there's bound to be a precedent somewhere. Though, I would imagine a side Eb in combination with a sliver F (but no side F) is fairly rare (some later instruments have a sliver F as well as a side F - or F# - key either on the left or the right).
But I would suggest there are good reasons NOT to break with 'convention'. From a practical point of view, if you intend on relying heavily on the keyed fingering from F, you will find a side-key for R1 far more convenient than a sliver for L2. The L2 key is useful in scalic passages, but quite awkward for arpeggo figuration (where L2 is likely to be covering its hole for the note preceding and/or following the F). Try to imagine playing a repeated F major argeggio with L2 constantly moving from hole to key between C and F.
Also, an R1 side-key can in some cases be used to produce a good F# in combination with the left thumb; for me, this function is even more useful than the F. Now try to imagine playing a repeated D major arpeggio with L2 again having to slide between the D hole and sliver key. It would be pretty uncomfortable.
Now, you could say that by having an Eb sliver instead, all you're doing is giving the problem to another finger. But the difference is a) I can guarantee that you'll have to play arpeggios containing Fs and F#s more often than ones containing Ebs, and b) sliding with L3 is a more comfortable movement, because with L1 and 2 and your thumb in place, you have three fingers anchoring the instrument rather than just thumb and L1 (as when you slide with L2). So the instrument is more stable and your hand more relaxed.
I think all these reasons contribute to the relative unpopularity of the F sliver key on extant instruments. I would also add, though, that at least in my opinion, even on a 12-key instrument, your primary fingerings remain the cross-fingerings that you would use on a 5-key. Once they are familiar and one has learned to control the intonation, these are frequently be the simplest choice for passage work, as well as producing a sound that will blends better with other instruments, and is more interesting, to boot. The additional keys are there to get you out of trouble in fast passage work, to produce a more stable note in complex tonalities, and to give you a note that will allow a wider range of dynamic and attack. Personally I use most of mine quite sparingly (I play a 10-key instrument, which has neither a throat F key nor an A/B trill, and I've even taken off the throat G# as I prefer the speaker key fingering). I've never yet felt limited in not having a throat F at all, even in Schubert, Mendelssohn and Glinka. But if I did have one I'd definately want it for R1 not L2 :-)
It's perhaps worth asking yourself why you want the Eb key on the R1 side? If the only reason is that you're used to it there on another instrument, bear in mind that you will adapt to the different layout very quickly, and being accustomed to the standard layout is useful if you come to be borrowing other instruments....
Just my thoughts anyway :-)"
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