 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2010-01-24 09:05
Clarinet players seem to hold strong but diverse views on the instrument and its playing.
Reeds and mouthpieces seem to trigger possibly endless searches for perfection or improvement.
I am a person that holds strong views and has to curb obsessive behaviour at times.
Are the attributes of obsession and robust opinions a normal trait of clarinet players?
Is it necessary to have these attributes to become a reasonably proficient player or is it a hindrance?
Tony
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Author: Eddydavik
Date: 2010-01-24 10:05
Well, there was that one joke...
How many clarinet players does it take to screw in a light bulb?
-- Only one, but they'll spend hours finding the right bulb.
Personally, I'm willing experiment, but try to take the road less traveled. I'm a strong Selmer folk, group up playing on Selmers, I guess because everyone else wanted a Buffet. I stuck to Rico reeds throughout college and now because everyone else were using Vandorens, and for the longest time I played on a Clark Fobes mouthpiece because no one else in my groups had one... excellent mpc, by the way.
Edward Escobar
Suita City Wind Ensemble
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-01-24 12:19
I love that light bulb joke, and I think there's some truth in it. But, the word "obsessive" has a negative connotation because we associate it with mental illness. The clarinet attracts and rewards people who enjoy the intricate mechanics and can focus on the details. To some extent, all musical instruments reward careful, focussed people and punish laziness and sloppiness, but the clarinet does seem a bit more that way than most.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-01-24 12:32
I think we're not alone...sax players can be just as weird:
How many Selmer MkVI owners does it take to change a lightbulb?
None: they'd prefer to keep the bulb all original, and sit in the dark.
That being said, I think we're extremely fortunate people, having worries like a 5 cent flat note here, or a slightly stuffy reed there. And like every aficionado we can get a bit anally retentive about our equipment. Most is all within the "perfectly normal" bandwidth.
--
Ben
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Author: vin
Date: 2010-01-24 14:01
In my opinion, no. People who care about something enough to want to spend time getting better at it have an obsessive quality, but this is true of any hobby or vocation (ex. golf, soccer, any instrument, math, art, etc.). You've come up with this hypothesis because you're only looking at clarinet players.
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Author: clarinetcase
Date: 2010-01-24 18:32
Perhaps it might be said that we're "Type A personalities" who continually want to be the best. Those of us who have other full time professions are most likely just as driven to be the best there as we are on our instruments.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2010-01-24 21:55
And are you talking about hobbyists, orchestra pros, or studio pros or other pro clarinetists? Are you talking kids/school music too???
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Author: Fred
Date: 2010-01-24 22:41
I do think that it is important for all musicians to ask themselves one important question: Does being a musician give you more joy and fulfillment or more frustration and anxiety? The most talented flute player I've ever known ultimately walked away from music because the joy and fulfillment - the "fun" if you will - was gone. Our playing is supposed to enrich our lives, regardless of what level we aspire to achieve.
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2010-01-24 22:46
I would like to be, but as a poor college student I restrict myself.
@ fred, I always find joy in trying new equipment and seeing exactly what changes and thinking about why. Although I don't fret over reeds enough to scrape them. I usually just adapt a little to a reed. I seem to never get one that is too far out to really use. (I use grand concerts on Bass, vandorean blue box on Bb)
I also had an extremely good flute player in my high school band. To the point she could have gone just about anywhere she wanted for free. She ended up putting it away when she graduated and hasn't touched it since that I know of. She always found it too "boring" to play because it was easy. She does still enjoy concerts and such though.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-01-24 23:23
For the record, I am not obsessive.
I don't have time to write any more, since I have to get back to reading every post on this board!
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2010-01-25 14:54
To master any instrument you have to be obsessive to some degree; always practicing every day, scales, arpeggios, and etudes.
When I was younger, the thing that attracted me to the clarinet was its sound. However it also suited my geeky, obsessive nature with its reeds and mouthpieces. I had all the time in the world to play clarinet, experiment with different mouthpieces, brands of reeds, barrels, and techniques for breaking in reeds, and even making my own reeds.
As a working adult I am far less patient and obsessive now. I am much more big picture. One of my professors in business school said "Perfectionists never get anything done." With my personality shift away from obsessiveness was a movement towards the flute. You just put three pieces together and you are ready to go in less than 30 seconds. You can sort of obsess about airstream but once you find the sweet spot for a range of notes there's no more obsessing. With the flute you never get water in the tone holes so you can't even obsess about clearing them out. So with my busy schedule and less time to be obsessive the flute really suits my personality now.
Because I've become less obsessive over the years, I've begun playing Legere reeds. Even though I have thousands of euro's worth of aged reeds, and even though I prefer the sound, feel and smell of cane, it's just easier to slap on a Legere reed and consistently sound good, rather than obsess, and try to sound excellent. Most of my musician friends can never tell the difference anyway. I play regularly with a wind ensemble and with a string ensemble. And I have played Legeres one week and an exquisitely balanced, and resonant reed the next week and they could not tell the difference.
So I have to agree that obsessive people can be attracted to the clarinet because there are many things to obsess about. But I also agree that musicians in general can be obsessive.
Bartmann
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2010-01-25 16:01
I am a retired high school science teacher (I was the entire department). There has been enough research done that it is pretty much a given that music students tend to do better in other classes as well. However, I know of no research to determine if that is because of the obsessive nature of musicians or because of the discipline learned by being a musician. Or, in the long run, are those two things actually one and the same?
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2010-01-25 16:35
Thanks everyone for your input and diverse views. When I used the word "obsessive" I did not mean any connotation with a mental health problem, just a way of behaving that many "normal" people exhibit. Sometimes "perfectionism" is equated to "obsessiveness" and considered to be even worse than "obsessiveness" which at least has degrees as opposed to "perfectionism" which is absolute. However, "perfectionism" doesn't sound as bad.
I was particularly taken by the contribution that switching to flute was a good way of getting away from the "fascinating challenges" that the clarinet poses.
It seems to me that although obsessive people may not be attracted to clarinet playing any more than any other instrument, may posters have acknowledged that they have obsessive traits and it might be that to succeed with the instrument one either needs this trait or, like the person who whacks in a Legere, they don't have the trait and find a way forward that bypasses all the fiddling, trialling and testing, and attention to almost indescribable detail that is the subject of many posts on this BB.
It's interesting that this BB has far more posts than the others hosted on the same servers. I love it, though, and all the very helpful people that take the time to read and reply to all the posts.
Tony
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2010-01-25 17:47
Hey, I don't have a problem being called obsessive compulsive, although there are a lot of shades of obsession as there are many shades of grey. All my family seems to be obsessed about something or other. Watching my General Machinist husband hang a door (ouch!) makes me think that if he had an ear he'd be a fantastic musician.
Someone once asked me why I took up the clarinet instead of the tuba. They found the tuba so much easier, less stressful than playing all those notes that clarinetists have to play. So I'm of the opinion that, yeah, we do have some similarity somewhere that allows us to be detail oriented to one degree or other.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-25 20:56
I've played with a lot of professional clarinet players and I will admit that some of them are obsessive. I could tell you stories but I really don't want to make it public. Some are ridiculously obsessive about reeds, to an extreme, and there are some that are obsessive about mouthpieces, or barrels or whatever. I think reeds are the worst though. But I've also known many players that are not that way. Yes, we're all fussy to a degree, you have to be in order to keep your standard of playing at a very high level, but you don't have to be over the hill.
On the other hand, I've known flute players that are obsessive about intonation, I know oboe players and bassoon players obsessive about their reeds. I even know some string players that are obsessive about their bows, though they cost a whole lot more than a reed or mouthpiece. In my opinion every pro needs a certain amount of obsessiveness but some people take it to an extreme. It's like they don't have a life outside of their instrument. I feel sorry for them. Striving for perfection is great, extreme obsessiveness is not. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2010-01-25 21:47
"I've known flute players that are obsessive about intonation...."
I wish I could play with some of those for once!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-01-26 12:44
Ed Palanker wrote,
>In my opinion every pro needs a certain amount of obsessiveness but some people take it to an extreme.>
Same for amateurs like me. "Extreme" can vary for one individual at different times, too. There's a fine line between the attention to detail that's important and necessary for competence (diligence as opposed to sloppiness) and the obsessiveness that sometimes becomes the excuse for not practicing. I notice that I'm more likely to start fussing with the mechanics of the clarinet and the reed when I'm at that stage of working on a new piece where I sound so bad that I'm tempted to put the clarinet away for the day. I'm not sure this type of displacement behavior is always as pointless as it may seem, though, because I think there's some brain work, some consolidation of what I've learned about the music, going on when I'm puttering around. But if I catch myself spending more time puttering than playing, then I know I've watched too many episodes of "Monk."
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-01-26 12:58
Lelia Loban wrote:
> But if I catch myself spending more time puttering than playing, then
> I know I've watched too many episodes of "Monk."
I don't like "Monk". He's a messie.
![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2010-01-27 13:58
I'm not obsessive. If I was I'm sure I'd practice until I was a really good clarinet player but I doubt if I'd enjoy it any more!
Happy to be a slob!
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-01-27 18:46
Personally, I don't think Clarinetists are anywhere as obsessive as double reed players. Spending so much time buying cane (or growing for some people), preparing it (especially bassoonists) and making small, very very intricate little shavings, cuts, etc in reeds (esp. oboists). Or with the one tiny screw out of adjustment, and nothing else works. The keywork when I'm working on my Oboe and English horn are so finicky, that I almost want to give up at times. Or when I'm making oboe reeds, and it's just not perfect, and I keep taking away more and more cane until the tip is frayed (earlier this week..)
But I think for musicians in general, especially those who call this a profession rather than a hobby, this is a sign of a serious player. And that without this fine attention to detail, the music or ensemble could suffer. When we played Daphnis and Chloe in undergrad, our conductor was so obsessive about intonation that we tuned the 16th note runs after the Eb Clarinet Solo NOTE BY NOTE...... knowing that none of us could adjust for a 16th note going by that fast. But just the thought of him doing that again made us all play in tune! Practicing is quite an obsessive activity. My fiancee tells me all the time that I work really hard, and am only doing music related jobs. I'm always on the go, and have this big schedule of practicing, teaching, rehearsing, performing and just living my life and doing other outside activities (like my bowling leagues), and he can't figure out whether I'm coming or going!
I will say though, i wouldn't want to be any other way. I think if we lost that quality, it means we've lost a lot of our love for what we do.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: graham
Date: 2010-01-28 10:47
I was speaking to a professional classical guitarist a couple of days ago and he said that guitarists are obsessive. I doubt there is an instrument that does not inspire high levels of this condition.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-01-28 12:54
Ron Ford wrote,
>>Personally, I don't think Clarinetists are anywhere as obsessive as double reed players. >>
Come to think of it ... yes. Monk-ish in the extreme. I had plenty of opportunities to observe as I sat next to the oboist in my high school orchestra. She worked hard at her instrument and played brilliantly. It was no surprise when she went on to become a professional oboist (although it came as a horrible surprise when a rare cancer killed her when she was still in her twenties). Marsha's endless fixation on whittling and tinkering with reeds, not only in orchestra but also during other classes, fascinated me -- but may also be why I resist messing with my own reeds!
My husband, who plays the violin as an advanced amateur, says that violin players are just as obsessional in their own way, but rarely work on their own instruments. Interesting, because Kevin's hardly afraid of manual work. He's a former auto mechanic, now a professional bookbinder and an inveterate do-it-yourselfer (in a home where we've got his-and-hers work benches, both in the house and in the studio, with his-and-hers tool kits that include his-and-hers sledge hammers and his-and-hers band saws, speaking of obsessiveness...well, it's not all that nutty, really, because I need a shorter work table and a smaller sledge hammer than his...). He'll adjust his own bridge and of course he changes his own strings, but, like every other string player we know (he plays in four different chamber groups), he wouldn't even think about re-hairing his own bows and he takes his violins to an expert for soundpost adjustments, bridge replacement or anything else that needs real work.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2010-01-28 12:55)
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