 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-08-23 17:34
In a few weeks, I'm going to rent a bass clarinet from the local music centre and play it in my high school's clarinet ensemble. I'v never played bass, though, and I don't know about relative reed strengths, which beginner models are half-decent, or mouthpieces. There's no way I can buy one- I'm renting it- and I don't know what's available yet. So, my question is threefold:
What are some basic beginner models that I might find that I could get a goodstart on, in order of quality and ease of playability? I'd like one with a neck that is angled up as much as possible. Which models might have that already?
What mouthpieces are good? There's always a chance that I might find a good one on a rental horn, I suppose, and take that, but otherwise I'll have to buy one. Are there any cheap but good beginner mouthpieces on the market? I know for soprano there's things like the Fobes Debut. Also, I don't feel like I can spend more than $80 on a mouthpiece, if that's even possible.
On soprano I use Rico Reserve 3.5s, but they are just a tiny bit too soft- I'm probably going to move up to a 4 very soon. What should I use on bass? I know I'm going to get suggestions of synthetic reeds, but I'd like to try cane first, if only just to see what size is good.
I do have a teacher who plays bass clarinet professionally, so once I get a good setup she'll be able to help me out a lot.
Thanks!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-08-23 17:42
Probably best to ask your teacher, if she is a decent player. She'll know what horns are good at the store, and which ones to avoid. It might be a good idea to ask her to accompany you to the stire, if possible, to help you selewct one. If necessary, pay her the usual lesson fee and consider that your lesson for the week.
Jeff
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2009-08-23 17:58
I suggest renting a Yamaha 221. The mouthpiece it comes with is quite adequate and will play very well with a Lègére reed. I play a 3 1/4, but a 3 works well too. I never had much success with cane reeds on bass, but the plastic Lègére is a godsent. I just now played a concert in 86 degree (30C) weather, lots of humidity, with both sunshine and rain. I used a tenor sax reed and had no problem whatsoever.
The Yamaha bass is the best plastic bass I know of. The Ridenour bass clarinets are made out of hard rubber and are made in China instead of Japan. I hear very good things about the Ridenour clarinets, but they are more expensive.
Mike Blinn
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-08-23 18:06
My teacher wouldn't be able to come with me; I've already asked. She's really, really, busy- has about 20 students, I think, and plays in Symphony Nova Scotia, as well as travelling a lot.
I'll see if there's any Yamahas there. Most of the rental basses I've seen are Selmers- are they any good? I'm quite sure that there won't be any Ridenours.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-23 18:16
Student-level basses from good makers (Yamaha, Vito, Bundy or Buffet) are roughly comparable. Any of them in good shape will be playable. Instead, make sure you get one that's in good shape. With so many long rods, basses go out of adjustment with the slightest bump, and even ordinary use. Make it part of the deal to sit with the music store's repair tech and get all the pads covering tight and the register mechanism is adjusted perfectly. Then handle it with kid gloves.
Get a bass with a double register key if you can afford it -- that is, a register vent on the neck and a second one just above the left thumb, controlled by a rod connected to the right ring finger key.
A good mouthpiece will pay for itself many times over, and you'll have it forever. If you can possibly afford it, get a Grabner http://www.clarinetxpress.com/bass.html or a Fobes http://www.clarkwfobes.com/clarinets_low.html, or perhaps a Garrett http://www.garrettmusicproducts.com/Clarinet%20Mouthpieces.html. Once you have a good mouthpiece, you'll quickly forget the cost, and have the pleasure of playing on it every day.
Don't worry about high register problems at the beginning. The bass is designed to play best in the low register -- otherwise the part would be given to the soprano clarinet. The high register comes with practice.
Spring for a Legere plastic reed. They work very well on bass. Stick with an inexpensive ligature, though -- a light metal one or a Rovner.
I'm sure Ed Palanker, who's a bass specialist, will have more to say. Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-08-23 18:18
> I'll see if there's any Yamahas there. Most of the rental basses I've seen
> are Selmers- are they any good? I'm quite sure that there won't be any
> Ridenours.
If you mean the plastic "Selmer USA" (as opposed to the wooden Selmer France) instruments, they are decent performers when in good repair; I play one in concert band.
A worthwile investition is Brad Behn's "Ouverture" Bass mouthpiece, it's less than $60 and I like it better than Yamaha's.
The tricky thing with any bass is that it must be in top condition; even the tiniest leak has more drastic consequences than on a Soprano clarinet. So insist on a freshly overhauled one if possible.
--
Ben
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-08-23 18:22
I'm renting it from the music centre, so there won't be a repair tech. The music centre is the local centre for extracurriccular music programs- all-city concert and jazz bands, strings programs, etc. Most people who rent rent from there. I think all the instruments just have a flat rate of $100 per year, which is pretty good!
How would I be able to tell if it's in adjustment or has any leaks while I'm there?
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Author: D
Date: 2009-08-23 19:02
I've used plasticover reeds very successfully (cane reed with sprayed on plastic would you believe!) which seem to be great if you have lots and lots of long rests or are doubling. Those large reeds dry out quicker than the small soprano ones so can can be a bit of a curse if it is hot weather.
Can you appeal to the highschool to cover any of the costs of this instrument change - even accessories like reeds are expensive for the big instruments. If they have asked you to change rather that you deciding to it seems a little unfair that you suffer all the costs. We all expect to pay for violin strings, clarinet reeds etc, but bass mouthpieces and full services of the instrument if they are not set up properly are rather beyond the budget of most highschool students. Perhaps you could sit in the middle of the school canteen busking on whichever three notes work on the instrument until you raise enough money to get it properly set up!
If it is set up right it wont be hard to play. Sit really straight and shove the air through it from the bottom of your lungs, there won't be so much resistance as you are used to but you must fill the whole instrument with air in order to get a good and reliable sound. Expect to breath a lot and deeply. Relax your mouth, basically so much that the air doesn't escape but no tighter than that. I love playing bass, and as others have said, if there is a newish Yamaha.........
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-08-23 19:04
It's a tough call because if the bass is out of adjustment you will have terrible problems trying to play the upper register. By the way, my first pro job was playing in what was then called the "Halifax" Symphony. I can't help you with the instrument but at some point you should have your teacher try it, assuming she plays the bass, to see if it's in decent working condition. For $100 a year it would be worth spending a few buck to get it fixed if necessary. You should check my website for some hints on playing the bass. Look under the bass clarinet page. Good luck, ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-08-23 19:16
You absolutely have the right to insist that the instrument you rent be in good condition, and any reputable music store will have the problems fixed.
Starting with open G, play a slow downward C scale with the lightest possible finger pressure, easing your fingers down. If any note hesitates or plays with full sound only when you press harder, reject the instrument or insist that the music store send it off to be put in good condition.
If the instrument has a double register key, then without playing, finger third-line Bb and gently release your thumb, watching to make sure the Bb pad closes completely and neither register vent moves. Then, without playing, finger fourth-space E and gently lower your right ring finger for the D fingering, watching to make sure the upper register vent closes completely. Have a friend gently press the upper vent key on top of the pad to check whether it moves down the final fraction of an inch. Then raise your right ring finger and make sure the lower register vent closes completely, having your friend press it to check. Do the same thing while playing. If any vent doesn't close completely, again, insist that the store sends it off to be fixed.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-08-23 19:17
Thanks everyone!
I can't get the school to pay, as it's me who wants to learn to play it- I actually had to convince my school music teacher to let me play it even just in clarinet ensemble, and not in concert band. She says that she needs me too much on the first clarinet parts to let me switch completely to bass- and I wouldn't really want to anyway. I am also planning on pursuing a performance degree (with an unrelated minor, don't worry!) so it's a good idea to learn bass- I'm also going to play saxophone in sax ensemble, but I'm able to borrow one from a saxophonist friend.
So, I'll try to insist on a Yamaha if at all possible, and I guess I'll talk to my teacher to see what reeds she uses- she might let me try some different ones.
Ed Palanker- glad to hear it! Who else was in the clarinet section then?
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-08-24 01:32
Just learning bass myself, and I rented the one I am playing. I believe it's a Bundy based on the case, but there are no markings that I can find on the horn. I do have a double register key, but have already had to do a little cardboard/tape trick to make it function correctly.
Getting over the break is difficult with this horn. I feel I have to press the keys pretty hard, and doing this at a brisk tempo is really a trick. Came with a Brillhart(?) mouthpiece, and I have some 3 rico reeds. Baseline setup if you ask me, but I wanted to rent one to see if I could tackle the beast or not.
Turns out that I can wrestle this one into playing, and it performs well in the low register. This was the only bass the store had in stock, and the other location was fresh out of them, so I didn't really get a choice.
If it's a school instrument you'll be playing, you can probably expect it to be in similar condition. Playable, but certainly could be better...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-08-24 03:36
>> tudent-level basses from good makers (Yamaha,
>> Vito, Bundy or Buffet) are roughly comparable.
Not exactly. The newer Yamaha 221 is better than the other plastic student models. Buffet doesn't make a student model, except the wood model with single register key they made for a while, which I consider overpriced considering the price of the Yamaha 221 and how it plays. The Bundy and Vito are not as good as Yamaha. Jupiter is ok too but not as good as Yamaha 221 either.
Notice the Yamaha 221 is the new and better one. The older 220 model is the same as a Vito and isn't as good.
>> Get a bass with a double register key if you can afford it <<
Although a good model with double register key is definitely a good idea, it is possible to play the entire range without much problem at all on a single register bass clarinet like Yamaha, Jupiter, etc. It might be easier on some than others, but I've played some bass clarinet with double register holes that were much worse (like an old Orsi for example). So I guess it's a matter of what you can find, prices, etc.
>> I do have a double register key <<
A Bundy doesn't have a double register key. It is one register key and a seperate key for throat Bb. Double register key is when the throat Bb tone hole is also a register hole for notes up to D#.
>> Getting over the break is difficult with this horn. I feel I have to press
>> the keys pretty hard, and doing this at a brisk tempo is really a trick.
Sounds like there are leaks that are overcome by pressing harder. If you bought it from a store, I assume you have some warrenty? They should fix it. It could be an honest mistake that they didn't notice it (hopefully that's what it is).
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Author: CEC
Date: 2009-08-24 06:10
I'm with Clarnibass. His advice is spot on.
Get a Yamaha 221 mk.II and try out different mouthpieces. I personally like the Roger Garrett Medium Open mouthpiece - excellent and affordable.
Best of luck!
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