 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2009-07-02 16:12
Back in 2002 I used a Sony Mini Disc recorder and they had fantastic stereo sound quality. Apparently these are now out of date? What is the current technological standard for self recording? I sometimes use my mac but the mic that is built in isn't too nice and it isn't amped.
I would like something small and portable.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2009-07-02 16:22
I am a fan of the Zoom H4 digital recorder. Small, powerful, good mics, and can attach to a computer via usb for further processing.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2009-07-02 17:01
I still use MiniDisk. The nice thing about their obsolescence is that you can pick up top-of-the-line models on eBay for next to nothing now. The painful aspect is that you have to pipe the music into your sound card in analogue form - but probably this isn't the step that limits the quality of the recording. I keep hoping that Sony will have a mic socket on their latest mp3 walkman: this would be ideal, as then you would be able to use a device you would buy anyway, and not need to buy something separate. And it would give them a further edge over iPods.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2009-07-02 17:39
I second the Zoom H4. Good built-in mics and 2 xlr inputs (with phantom power) so you can attach proper mics. I record my chamber concerts with inexpensive external mics (Studio Projects C1) and the result is incredible.
For stealth recording, practice and rehearsal the built-in mics' sound is quite respectable.
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Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Artistic Director - Jeffery Summer Concerts
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
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Author: sdr
Date: 2009-07-02 17:52
Zoom H2 is also excellent, and less expensive than the H4.
-sdr
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2009-07-02 22:15
"Zoom H2 is also excellent, and less expensive than the H4."
And smaller.
However if one day one wants to record in better sound that the internal mics produce, the H2 has no xlr inputs for good mics.
Everything I record on my H4 these days I do with external mics.
A review of the H2:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2007/09/13/review-zoom-h2-surround-recorder.html
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Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Artistic Director - Jeffery Summer Concerts
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2009-07-02 22:21
Digital camcorders which you can record to a mini DVD and/or a memory card work great, especially with a computer with USB capability and video editing software, I got one last Christmas and use it to rcord various performances. (mine's a Sony, not sure what model, but it's definitely recent)
Meri
Please check out my website at: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com and my blog at: http://clariniano.wordpress.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-07-03 03:00
I am happy as heck I found this thread. I was thinking about buying a simple microphone to plug into my computer to try to record some duets or whatnot with myself.
I think instead I'll be picking up this zoom H2. It'd be perfect for bringing to my army gigs with me. 4 hours of recording, certainly enough to plant in front of us and record a dixie gig or WWQ, Clarinet 4 or whatever else we might be having. Then I can transfer the gig to my computer to hear later, analyze what we should work on for next time, and split into tracks if I liked the way a certain song sounded and wanted to put my best foot forward to sending a song to my family/friends.
And as a bonus, I can use it as a much better microphone for the computer when I use a program to record multiple tracks and more "garageband" (MAC program) situations. A win-win at a pretty decent price.
Alexi
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-07-03 11:15
sfalexi...check out the Tascam DR-07 first....
Bob Draznik
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Author: beejay
Date: 2009-07-03 22:22
Both the H2 and the H4 give excellent results. The H2 is smaller and simpler to use. The advantage of the H4, which costs about $100 more), is the ability to do multitrack recording. I know it sounds narcissistic, but I sometimes play Mozart duets with myself, or I get pianist friends to lay down accompaniments on one of the tracks.
I had a Sony minidisk recorder for many years,and was more than happy with it until the battery compartment disintegrated. I think the digital recorders give better results. They are more convenient, and integrate easily with your computer.
For further information, you could try:
digitalmedia.oreilly.com/audio/portable-recorder-comparison/
or
forums.oreilly.com/.../Portable-Digital-Recorders/
There is also a store in New England which has side-by-side sound comparisons of several recorders on its web site, but I have forgotten its name. Perhaps someone else on the board might know.
My H4 came with an audio editing program called Cubase, which failed to load in Vista and seemed horribly complex. I use Audacity instead.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2009-07-05 23:39
Hello,
I use the Edirol digital recorder. It works great. I've also recorded professionally released recordings with a Zoom with external mics. I think with the digital technology, as long as external mics are an option, go with the cheapest one!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2009-07-11 00:08
I have the H2 as well as the H2n, they are both excellent machines but I think I would have to edge the h2 over the H4n. The H2 is as near an idiot resistant recorder as possible.
The H4n does a little more, It has a really nice Mid side mic mode, which I love for quick and easy set up. But If you are going to buy the H4n because you are going use upgrade mics, you will need to spend upwards of minimum $1200 to get better sound than the the internal mics on the H2 or H4n.
So what I would do is get an H2 practice your freekin butt off, find a nice sounding church or recital hall, find the spot to set it up. Then turn it on and just keep doing takes. Once you get it to the point where you think it sounds like a great clarinetist playing something they really know well, hire a professional to record or do the post production. You can get alot of post production for 1200 bucks.
Actually I think I underestimated the $1200, the H2 used as audio interface into my Mac book pro running logic sounds as good as running my Neumann 184s into my apogee mic pre, so that's 1600 for the mics and 950 for the pre that's $2500. and for that money the sound is almost indistinguishable.
I have a ton of really great recording gear in my house and I think the zoom 2 is the best audio buy anyone can make. If I were teaching at a university I would require my students to have them and tape something every week and I would have the whole studio listen and critique them. The audio quality of the H2 and H4n is so good you can actually use it to give your self a lesson.
Tom Puwalski, former Soloist and principal clarinetist with the U.S. Army Field Band, Author of the "Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer", soon to be released, Clarinet Basic Training and More Klezmer, a play along guide to my favorite gig tunes.
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Author: Adrianna
Date: 2009-07-11 03:47
I am also looking for a recording setup, but specifically for creating audition CD's. What is the quality like on the H4? Would it be appropriate for creating good quality recordings? Or what do people use instead?
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2009-07-11 04:42
THe H2 and the H4n have the same audio quality when using the built in mics. The audio quality is only better on the H4n when using $2500 in extra recording. As nobody will hire off the tape alone, In my opinion as one who has listened to audition tapes and someone who does live recital recording of myself and others. I would buy and us the H2. The H2 sits in my clarinet case ready to record anything anytime. It will not be the reason you either get the audition or not. The H2 is so much better than mini disks ever were. And people all over this list went nuts for something better than cassette recording.
People are so willing to spend lots of money on this stuff, either to prove how into they are, or to say that "they can really hear the difference"
I make this guarantee, get an H2 record yourself 20-40 min every day. In a month you will play at a level that could not have imagined your self playing.
I've actually ended up teaching a few lessons in recording in the last few years. I think from a learning stand point you can learn alot from using an H2. If you are learning where to place microphones, putting in the head set and monitoring as you walk around the recording source you will learn where the best mic placement is. If you end up editing in Audacity, Garage band or pro tools or logic you will have excellent source tape to work with.
Tom Puwalski, former Soloist and principal clarinetist with the U.S. Army Field Band, Author of the "Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer", soon to be released, Clarinet Basic Training and More Klezmer, a play along guide to my favorite gig tunes.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2009-07-11 10:42
I've been tempted to buy a Sony PCM-50 portable digital recorder.
BobD - do you know how it compares to the Tascam DR-07?
Post Edited (2009-07-12 10:36)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-07-11 13:03
Larry, I have no knowledge of the Sony. I had a H2 and gave it to my son who likes it a lot. I also have a Sony mini disc which is excellent but pretty much obsolete today. I bought the Tascam because I have 2 of their cassette recorders and respect their multi track history. I'm not a big Sony fan anymore as I resent their copyprotection phobia.
Bob Draznik
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Author: vials
Date: 2009-07-11 13:45
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Olympus LS-10. Maybe it's because it hasn't been around as long as the h2 and h4.. The sound quality of the Olympus's built in microphones is noticeably better than the Zoom models, at least according to me and my friends who also have compared them. The only advantage I can think of with the h4 is that it has XLR connections. No wait, the h4 has one more advantage: it has a bit more bass than the Olympus, but I don't care so much about the bass register since my clarinet can't play in that register anyway, and it's easy to put some EQ on the recording afterwards in for exaple Logic, if you want to.
Oh and btw, if you compare the h2 and the h4 you will find that the h4 sounds much better than the h2, even my grandpa can hear the difference
When I was looking around trying to find the best (though reasonably priced) portable recording machine, I found a website with recordings from all these devices so you could easily compare the sound quality. I'll see if I can find it again:)
EDIT: I found the website: http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-sound-samples.html
i think there is much more clarity in the Olympus recordings compared to the h2. And especially for us clarinetists the clarity of our recordings I believe is very important; a muffled recording sort of "hides" the different timbres and tonal characters of the instrument, do you agree?
Post Edited (2009-07-11 13:56)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2009-07-12 00:19
Thanks Vials. That was the website I was thinking of in my earlier posting.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2009-07-12 00:47
Stephanie Wingfield is a good friend of mine and the clarinet sample on the website are from yours truly.
If you are only going to record solo clarinet, the H2 will be great. Otherwise, from all of the ones I heard, my favorite is the Marantz PMD620.
The easiest interface and the nicest sound apart from the $2000 Sony.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: susannah
Date: 2009-07-12 07:53
Slight spin-off; with more and more conservatory/competition auditions requiring a DVD recording, what do you think are the best products for this? Obviously no.1 importance is the sound quality, and I've found that most reviews don't really focus on this, any advice?
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2013-04-15 03:38
I just purchased the slightly newer Tascam DR40 digital recorder. Since this is three years later than the prior posts in this thread, I'd go for the latest version of the technology. There is probably little if any difference in recording quality between the Tascam and Zoom - main differences are feature set.
I have to tell you, I took 4 sets of different brand medium and large condenser mics (that cost almost as much as the recorder) into a room for three hours and recorded me playing the beginning or Rhapsody in Blue on each mic, including the stereo pair in the Tascam. There were slight differences, and I'm certain a trained audio engineer could discern more differences than I could. There was a bit more depth and presence from a couple of the external condensers, especially the MXL 990 Stereo that sells for a mere $149 compared to the Tascam internal mics. And I am positive there would be similar differences compared to the Zoom mics as well. The mics in both the Zoom and the Tascam , while amazing for what they do, are in fact tiny condenser mics, not as well suited to certain sounds, e.g. clarinet, as others. And given that they are only one component of a $150 recorder, I cannot imagine that if they were sold separately, would be more than the $25 range - 2 for $50 as part of a $150 device. And there is a reason why decent condenser mics start at $50 and go up - and why the most respected mid-priced condensers are in the $100 to $200 range.
However, I haven't decided on which external mic to supplement the built-ins yet. I understand large diaphragm condensers or ribbon mics are the best match for Bb clarinet. I am tempted to try a pair of CAD GXL2200 which is a large diaphragm (1") condenser mic that gets excellent reviews - and a pair would only cost $120, including shock mounts. Specific models of both the Zoom and Tascam recorders have the 48-volt phantom power necessary to drive condenser mics.
Yes, I intend to practice using the Tascam and encouraging others to listen to themselves as well. I am learning that it is difficult to accurately assess our tone quality and other nuances of our playing while we have the reed vibrating in our heads and consequently fall short of sounding as good as we possibly can.
And just as important as the recorder and mic is the playback device. I am researching various powered speakers that accurately render the recording. There are two categories of options available: Studio Monitors which are not designed to be portable but are very accurate, or PA speakers, which are designed to be portable and generally more powerful but are not generally as accurate. Moderately priced powered speakers of either type are plentiful in the $150 to $250 price range.
I would welcome any suggestions you guys might have with regard to your experience with accurate portable powered speakers as well as microphones.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-04-15 14:05
I have just bought a Zoom H4n. Like one of the above posts states, Cubase is a bit of a pain to set up. I am using the card though to listen to my recordings which is much easier. It is really useful to listen and critique yourself but I send myself nuts as I tend to be a perfectionist and am much more critical of myself than I ever am of others. The H4n is very good at picking up the altissimo even on my effer and has no problem at all with the alt C.
Happy recording ;-)
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