The Clarinet BBoard

Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording

Author: oliver sudden  Date:   2009-06-03 08:20 >> There's no objective acoustical reason for much of our harmony - an exact equal-tempered semitone is to be found nowhere in the overtone series, for example, and yet much of our music (from Debussy and Liszt on) needs to be heard on the basis of equal temperament.>> >Absolutely wrong. Gosh, we are going well, aren't we? I wasn't talking about orchestras... but an orchestra that tries to play all its major thirds actually pure (14 cents flat to equal-tempered - as opposed to just approximating them which I suggest is much closer to the truth) is going to run into some rather juicy problems. I wasn't actually thinking primarily about tonal music either. Whole-tone or twelve-tone music relies on a relativisation of the ear's intonational criteria - which is not only possible but desirable, indeed necessary. If you try to play an augmented triad with pure thirds then you don't reach the octave at the top! But such music still can (and must) be played in tune, and heard as being in tune, according to its own criteria, which are those of equal temperament. I don't find it the least bit productive simply to assert that anything but what's in the harmonic series is 'out of tune' and thus automatically "incompetent or unmusical". Every age and school has made music in its own temperaments and exploited its characteristics according to the extent of their imaginations. Bach's 'well-tempered' (and Kirnberger's and Werckmeister's) has no pure keys - each key has its own "wince factor" if you want to put it that way, but that's what Bach makes music with. Not "minimising such experiences" but choreographing them. (Whose harmonic series anyway? A clarinet's harmonics (even the odd-numbered ones) don't fit the theoretical series. Neither do those of a string instrument, even - if their strings actually have mass. )

Topics	Author	Date
Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Ken Shaw	2009-05-25 23:29
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Dileep Gangolli	2009-05-26 01:23
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Katrina	2009-05-26 01:50
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Ryder	2009-05-26 03:14
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Sarah Elbaz	2009-05-26 04:52
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	cigleris	2009-05-26 06:54
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-26 07:57
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-26 08:24
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Liquorice	2009-05-26 08:33
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-26 08:52
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Ken Shaw	2009-05-26 11:58
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	larryb	2009-05-26 13:23
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Ken Shaw	2009-05-26 16:49
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	larryb	2009-05-26 18:11
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	clarinetwife	2009-05-26 18:45
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	cigleris	2009-05-26 19:04
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-26 19:20
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Liquorice	2009-05-26 22:02
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-26 22:30
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Dileep Gangolli	2009-05-26 22:39
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	cigleris	2009-05-27 06:32
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-27 11:21
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-05-29 13:53
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	larryb	2009-05-29 14:15
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Nessie1	2009-05-29 14:53
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	mrn	2009-05-29 16:05
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-29 23:34
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-05-30 15:52
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Koo Young Chung	2009-05-29 23:52
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-31 17:24
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-05-31 23:06
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-05-31 23:49
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-06-01 05:25
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-06-01 08:07
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Lelia Loban	2009-06-01 12:01
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-06-01 20:44
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-06-01 21:17
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-06-01 22:11
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-06-02 20:53
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	mrn	2009-06-02 02:52
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Lelia Loban	2009-06-02 11:43
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-06-02 13:24
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Dileep Gangolli	2009-06-02 14:31
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-06-02 20:13
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-06-03 01:15
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-06-02 21:50
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-06-02 22:16
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-06-03 07:35
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Dileep Gangolli	2009-06-02 22:59
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Ken Shaw	2009-06-03 01:37
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording	oliver sudden	2009-06-03 08:20
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-06-03 08:41
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-06-03 09:36
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Tony Pay	2009-06-08 16:48
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	oliver sudden	2009-06-11 08:33
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Lelia Loban	2009-06-11 13:00
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	mrn	2009-06-11 14:31
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	Christopher Bush	2009-06-11 19:06
Re: Mozart Concerto - An Important New Recording  new	mrn	2009-06-11 20:40

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