 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: xeys_00
Date: 2009-05-13 10:07
Hello, I'm back with a new topic, and that is Contra Alto Clarinets. Without wondering why I'm considering them, can someone tell me about 2 in particular, the Selmer 1440 and the Leblanc 7181. I am considering these 2 in particular, because they would fall within my price range. And for those that wonder about my Bass Clarinet that I named "Count Bassy", I took it back, because it was not low enough. I'm looking for a lower, deeper instrument, but I'm not wanting to go Brass, because I want to stay on the Woodwind side. Thanks in advance.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-05-13 12:26
I bought the Selmer in December as a Xmas present to myself. It is not a bad horn but certainly not in the league with artist quality instruments that I own. Just couldn't justify $12K and more for a good one, since I don't play it in public even! It does have a good deep sound and a BIG sound like you get from Selmer basses in general. The mouthpiece that comes with it is horrible. I bought a Fobes Nova series one and more recently a Grabner, which REALLY improved the sound and response on the horn.
Negatives are the locked middle joints that make cleaning difficult and some shoddy workmanship. The floor peg on mine has already ceased working properly, for example. For the price though it's not horrible.
Eefer guy
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-13 12:56
Not sure I agree with EeferGuy about the Selmer-USA (formerly Bundy or Buescher) contra-alto. I've been playing one for years (mine is stenciled "Buescher"). I don't know if their quality has dropped in recent years as they transitioned from "Bundy" to "Selmer-USA", but I've heard rumors that they have. Anyway, speaking for the older models at least, they are acoustically and mechanically identical to the very expensive (and gorgeous) rosewood Selmer-Paris contra-altos, and play much the same (which is quite well). With just a bit of tweaking they are very good and very rugged instruments. The keywork on mine is made of the toughest metal I've ever seen for keywork, very hard to bend (a good thing!). They're readily available used for around $1000, possibly the best clarinet bargain there is. With a decent mouthpiece (e.g. Fobes, Grabner, or refaced Selmer C* or Bundy 3) they can sound fabulous. As for the center joint, I just keep an Allen (hex) key in my case (a modified tenor sax case) so I can take the body apart in the middle just like a two-piece bass clarinet body. Takes 5 seconds to take apart or put back together.
Again, I refer to the older instruments. I have neither seen nor played a newer Selmer-USA version.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-05-13 15:08
I would try both the Bundy/Linton and the Vito. They're both good entry-level Eb instruments and are the best-selling (and therefore the most easily available) horns. With a good mouthpiece, they sound nearly as good as the rosewood Selmer Paris or metal Leblanc.
If you get a used instrument, remember that they come out of schools, and the mouthpieces will be abused beyond recognition. Figure in the cost of a Grabner mouthpiece, which will make an amazing improvement.
Ken Shaw
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2009-05-13 15:12
I played a loaned Selmer for a year. Because of the long case, make certain your vehicle is large enough to transport the instrument. The only way I could fit it in my 4 door Honda Accord (no pass-through trunk) was in the well in front of the rear seat. Sliding the 28 pound case in and out of the rear seat was not good for either the car or my back.
As for build quality, the left hand thumb key, which is cantilevered, broke off due to metal fatigue. While it was easily reattached by a competent repair person, if it's lower movement had been limited by a cushion, the break probably never would have happened. This horn did not have a floor peg; the bell had a cushion that rested on the floor. I used a seat cushion and wooden block to adjust the position of the horn relative to me; an adjustable chair would have been a better solution.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-05-13 16:00
Any well equipped repair shop can solder a floor peg holder to the bell or attach it to the bottom of the body. They're available from Ferree's. Go to http://www.ferreestools.com/Pg.168-220.pdf and then to p. 185. The bass clarinet pegs should also work on contra.
In the interim, lay the case on its side underneath the chair, put a towel on it and rest the bell on that.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-05-13 16:59
GeorgeL brings up a good point about some of the keys on the Selmer-USA/Bundy/Buescher contra -- there are a few key touchpieces which don't have a 'stop' under them, and tend to get bent when pushed too hard and will eventually snap from fatigue. Fixing this problem is one of the 'tweaks' I referred to -- a solution is to put a cork (or even better, felt) cushion under the touchpiece which stops just barely short of touching the body (or does touch but only compresses very slightly) when the associated pad closes on its tonehole. Then the key can't bend very far even if pushed really hard. One has to wonder why the factory didn't do this in the first place!
Another very helpful improvement to this instrument is to re-angle the neck to a more vertical angle. From the factory the mouthpiece is nearly horizontal, which for most people is a bad thing.
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2009-05-14 21:14
I also got the Selmer contra alto in Oct. of last year. The instrumet plays well for the price. I have not have any problems with the horn other then the keys got tarnish very fast, so I am having to keep polishing them very often. Other then that is a good horn.
It can be quit difficult to transport the intrument since the case is so big. I also had to buy a stool in order for the to play it at a confortable height.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2009-05-15 05:07
It was said that Kalman Opperman undercut the toneholes on a Bundy, making it a more responsive instrument, a lot of work on a large instrument. I've used mine for about 10 years and, though I'm not a regular player of it, find it plays just great with quite good tuning.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-05-15 12:52
Wes -
Kal set up a Linton Eb and a Vito Bb contra for his own use. He did much more than undercut the tone holes, working on the bore and the neck and making mouthpieces specifically matched to the instruments. I've played them both, and they're simply beyond compare. You can hear them, played by Dennis Smylie, as the anchor of the Opperman Clarinet Choir on several of Richard Stoltzman's CDs. The sound in the Barber Adagio is amazing.
I've read that Charles Bay has done the same thing, but haven't heard or seen his instruments.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-05-15 12:52
I have a Selmer 1440 from the 1980s, when it was branded as a Bundy. I love it! David Spiegelthal wrote,
>>GeorgeL brings up a good point about some of the keys on the Selmer-USA/Bundy/Buescher contra -- there are a few key touchpieces which don't have a 'stop' under them, and tend to get bent when pushed too hard and will eventually snap from fatigue. Fixing this problem is one of the 'tweaks' I referred to -- a solution is to put a cork (or even better, felt) cushion under the touchpiece which stops just barely short of touching the body (or does touch but only compresses very slightly) when the associated pad closes on its tonehole. Then the key can't bend very far even if pushed really hard. One has to wonder why the factory didn't do this in the first place!
>>
What a good idea. Thank you!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: xeys_00
Date: 2009-05-16 02:14
I am leaning toward the selmer 1440. My Professor may not teach me this instrument, but maybe I can find someone local in Houston. I think this is as low as I can go sound wise and still be able to get it new. Has anyone else had good luck with this instrument? And what are the parts this instrument usually plays in band/orchestral arrangements? Can anyone direct me to a pdf of a typical contra alto part for an arrangement? Do they just play the Bari Sax part?
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-16 09:55
The rather nifty thing about Eb treble clef instruments is that you can play C bass clef parts just by reading the bass clef as treble clef (and changing the key signature/accidentals appropriately)...
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-05-16 20:19
David,
Have been out of pocket for a few days but wanted to say that I played a Bundy contra alto from the 70's in high school and it was a better quality horn than what they're turning out now. That was a nice horn. This horn has that basic design but the locked middle joint and the more flimsy version of the keys makes it feel a little cheesy.
On the other hand the sound is actually pretty decent. The Fobes Nova mouthpiece was good and the Grabner mouthpiece really good on this horn. The sound is better than you'd expect from a plastic horn.
xeys, the parts depend upon the piece. Sometime you read a special contra alto clarinet part or you can read string bass or bassoon parts by doing the transposition trick.
Eefer guy
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Author: xeys_00
Date: 2009-05-16 21:23
Hmmm. I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth trying to get one used or new. Not hearing a lot of great things out there about either of my 2 options. I know I've seen the 1440 in action on youtube. It sounds great to me. On the other hand, it's too expensive an instrument to get one that may fall apart or be a waste of money down the line. I need it to do 2 things: Be in tune and have a solid consistent response in all registers, and be sturdy enough to survive life. Not bumping it all the time, or mistreating it, but if it's overly in need of adjustment every couple of weeks, then I think I may just go get that 221II Bass clarinet back. Not as deep a sound as I like, but at least I know what I'm getting with it.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-17 12:03
...if the bottom line is just how low you can go, you could do worse than consider shopping around to see if your budget can run to a second-hand Leblanc paperclip Bb contra with the written low C.
An Eb contra with a written Eb down below only goes a major third (or if you prefer a diminished fourth ) lower than a Bb bass with a low C. A full paperclip contra goes a whole octave lower...
(I bought mine second hand a few years back for AU$4000. That's Aussie dollars. About US$3000 in other words... and I'm led to believe there are a lot more of these instruments floating around in the US.)
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Author: xeys_00
Date: 2009-05-17 14:46
I think Contra Alto is as low as I can go and still have some sort of Melodic, Lyrical quality about it.
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-05-17 18:01
...don't worry about that: the Bb contra does 'melodic' all the way down and really doesn't sound very much different from the contra-alto (just a lot lower!). Do try one if you can get the chance.
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Author: xeys_00
Date: 2009-05-17 18:06
Can anyone tell me anything specifically about the pros and cons of getting a brand new 1440 Selmer? At least I've seen this particular one on youtube, being played rather well... It looks like the best bet.
Post Edited (2009-05-17 20:29)
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2009-05-28 21:33
xeys 00 wrote: "I think Contra Alto is as low as I can go and still have some sort of Melodic, Lyrical quality about it."
You could also search for a paperclip contra-alto. Low written C, very compact, very much the contra-sound, usually cheaper second hand than the Bb paperclip. Harder to find though. I like mine a lot!
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