 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Betty
Date: 2009-05-06 05:39
I purchased this clarinet from ww/bw about 3 yrs ago and right from the start there was a problem with the clarinet!
It will not play a chalumeau B4 natural fingering. i have had it to the local repair guy several times and he: poked holes in the sides of the pads (to prevent bloating), tightened my screws, slightly unbent some keys, checked for leakage with a light, finally, we changed out the lower 4 pads..uh uh..didnt help. we cant find a leakage anywhere..so I changed mouthpieces, and reeds ..uh uh...the repairguy took apart the lower section and reassembled it..uh uh..didnt help..he is at a loss and baffled and I am just disgusted!! ..getting ready to ditch this and get something else..(I already have a student model YCL 250 that I used for outdoors and its just fine!)......any suggestions on a different brand that would be similar to the YAMMY CL 650?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2009-05-06 05:44
My guess is that one of the springs is not firm enough and a closed key is being blown open...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-06 05:55
>> chalumeau B4 natural fingering <<
I assume you mean the B in the middle of the staff.
>> It will not play <<
What "will not play" mean? Does it just give airy sound with no note? Does it play a different note? Does it play the B but stuffy/resistant? etc.
From your post it sounds mostly like a problem with the clarinet, for example a leak. If your repairer only checked with a leak light it's very easy to miss leaks. IMO that's not the best way to check for leaks on a clarinet (best method for saxophone). Maybe you have another repairer in your area to get a second opinion? Some problems are sort of a mystery but finding what causes them can be the most fun 
I guess it's possible (even for Yamaha) that the instrument is defective for some reason, but it's so muc less likely than a problem that is possible to fix. The chances are close to nill really.
If you are set on replacing the instrument, and you want something comparable, how about another Yamaha 650? What you describe is not a problem with the 650 line so it's extermely unlikely that another one would be the same (unless it's a mechanical problem which your repairer just can't find, and then nothing stops them from not finding it again). Or maybe a different Yamaha model, I think all their models are excellent.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-05-06 10:01
Check the F#/C# spring, I believe it works the lowest pad on the right hand side. I had some problems with the spring being weak and the B not playing right away, or when it did making a growling noise as air escaped from that pad when I fingered the note and blew.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: graham
Date: 2009-05-06 11:22
what brand of washing machine does this repair guy normally service?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-05-06 11:36
Does he know the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-05-06 11:44
If the clarinet was exhibiting problems from the outset, I would have returned it to wwbw for either repair or replacement. They have a fairly liberal return policy, especially on new instruments. I even sent them back a used instrument I had bought from them with no problems and a fast and courteous refund. It was a beautiful rosewood Rossi that they had taken in on trade, but it had some intonation issues.
It's probably too late for wwbw to do anything about it, but if you like the clarinet otherwise, why not contact Yamaha USA and see what they suggest? They might allow you to send it back to their uUS offices for inspection and repair.
Another possibility would be to send it to any of the qualified repair techs who advertise here and ask them for an estimate and appraisal of the problem. It may be a rather easy and painless fix.
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-05-06 14:29
I doubt WWBW would be interested in dealing with this clarinet considering the amount of buggering around that's been done to it by your so-called tech who has probably made things much worse than they were (and invalidated the warranty on it from the word go), and has probably overlooked something really simple that any decent tech would have spotted straight away which would have saved you all this time and wasted effort.
If he's going round in circles and not resolving anything, find someone who knows what they're doing instead of getting nowhere with this know-nothing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Betty
Date: 2009-05-06 15:34
By "not playing" I mean: as soon as you reach that note, nothing happens..no squeak, no air pushing thru, no sound..go up a note, fine...so when I am playing along and need to hit that particular note, nothing....and I need to continue on so I have been getting into that nasty habit of 'skipping' that particular note when it comes up...my director would like this to stop...HEE! so would I....I do wonder though if Yamaha has people that I could send it to. I am in a rural area with only the one repair person..i would have to drive 2-4 hrs to get to another one....Ive had the springs tightened also. Yes, I shouldve sent it back to ww/bw but (stupid me stupid me) I had gotten a YCL 650 and it actually had a problem with a different key and I sent it back...the technicians verified there was a problem needing extensive work and sent the clarinet I have NOW as a replacement....soooo.....I shouldve sent it back, but concert season was starting and I had limited breakin period...ACK ACK>>KICK ME!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-05-06 15:51
So... middle B does not speak *at all, ever* but C and C# and D are all okay?
The B key is not closing. The cork on the crow's foot (the connection under the F/C key) is too thick, or the B key needs to be bent to it's proper position.
Your tech is not one.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-05-06 20:28
Try this:
Lightly press the LH B key and then look at the two pads that are supposed to close, the 2 pads on the opposite side of the horn closest to the bell. One of those is not closing. Usually it is the one closest to the C key, but it could be the other one. This is a VERY simple thing to correct. Worst case is that the pads are bad and there is some simple adjustment needed.
Most likely there is nothing fundamentally wrong with your clarinet. That it will play the surrounding notes says to me that the horn is fine and the adjustment is off. If you had a REAL problem like a post that has penetrated the bore or a huge crack, then you would be lucky to get anything at all out of the instrument...
One other thing you can do is to visually inspect the keys. Are the rods perfectly straight? Do the pad cups look twisted? When the keys move, do they move smoothly? Do the pad cups come down in the center of the tone hole?
And! Look at the lower pads... did your "repair tech" replace them? Do they look too small? If you look at the seat on the pad (the little indention) can you see the whole circle? If a pad is too small, then it will sit to far into the cup and most likely will not cover the whole tone hole. Also, look to see if the pad looks level to the pad cup.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-05-06 20:36
Before this gets more involved, you need to clear something up, as there is a little confusion among those who have responded. Is the note inm question B3? ![[B3]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/b3.gif)
or is it B4? ![[B4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/b4.gif)
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2009-05-06 20:58)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: davidsampson
Date: 2009-05-07 04:21
You did, but thats not a chalumeau note so it was a little confusing. I think by now we have pretty well established what note it is.
Definitely find a better tech.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-07 05:32
How do you finger the B? Left pinky only? right pinky only? Have you tried fingering with both left pinky B plus right pinky C? If not, try it and report back. What you describe sounds exactly like the E/B key not closing the F/C key like it should, and if there is no note at all the leak pretty significant (a tiny leak would make the B resitant and very hard to play quiet but not impossible). The B key leaking is less likely since this would usually play a sort of stuffy glisando between C and B depending how bad the leak is (you can notice this by purposely controing the leak of the B key).
I recommend investing a day and go to a better repairer. At worst two days, if they don't fix it whle you wait (but you can try to schedule a time where they would have time to repair while you wait). Or you can ship the clarinet to a repairer, I understand this is common in some countries. Most important is you find out before that the repairer is reliable by having enough recommendations from reliable clarinetists.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-05-07 14:32
Like David said, B4 is not chalameau, but rather clarion. That's why I was asking the question. Look for a new technician. If it isn't convenient to find a person within reasonable distance of your home, consider a long weekend in the Chicago area or something along those lines. There are any number of competent techs in that area. Or, consider sending it to one of the fo9lks who sponsor this BBS. Just off the top of my head, you could deal with Walter Grabner, Lisa's Clarinet Shop, Naylor's, Vitas Krass, John Butler, Morrie Backun or Tom Ridenour. Most of them are sponsors here. Any of these folks should be able to help you out. Some of them will require you to ship your clarinet, as they are a great distance, but you will have the security of knowing an expert is working on the clarinet.
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2009-05-07 15:39
Other than some of those really off brands, I have never seen a problem like this that a good tech could not fix. I have never seen any playability issue with a Yamaha. Hopefully you can take it to, or send it to someone who can take care of this for you and get back to enjoying playing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-05-07 15:56
Since nobody else has mentioned this by now, Betty, let me suggest that,
for a quick test to see if the pads are sealing normally, take each joint by itself and close all the tone holes with the normal playing hand. For the lower joint, you will also need to depress the right hand E/B pinky lever. Cover the bottom opening with your other hand, then try to suck air through the upper end of the joint. If everything is aligned properly and sealing tightly you should create a vacuum that continues for at least several seconds after you stop sucking. Next, with the joint still closed, try blowing (no too hard) into the upper end (sealing the end with your mouth). You should feel strong resistance. If the instrument fails the "suck" test, a pad is probably not sealing properly. If it passes the "suck" test but fails the "blow" test, then the problem may also be a pad that isn't sealing (but was pulled shut when you sucked) or a weak spring that is allowing a pad to open slightly in response to the back pressure created when all the tone holes are closed (which I think may be the problem with your instrument).
These tests aren't perfect (though I think they're better than some give them credit for). If you want to read more about them, search the bulletin board for "suck blow test" without the quotes.
If you try them, report back with the results.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: C2thew
Date: 2009-05-07 19:16
what jack said. this is the first and most essential test to verify if the pads are sealing correctly.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-05-08 02:30
Hi Betty,
This may just be it!!! I had problems with my B on my Buffet R13. A good bit of help from our friend Tom Ridenour in this video saved it. The Vid is about 6 min, it gets to the point 3 mins in. In short, he recommends taking off the register key and cleaning the register tube. It could also be that your register key cork/or pad doesn't have rounded edges. He also recommends pulling the bell off a crack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCyhjx3-NHo&feature=channel
To answer your question from your first post, if you want a comparable instrument to yours for replacement you can look into the Buffet E11 which compares in price. The Buffet Limite is a fine instrument too, but that will run you about 2 grand.
Best of Luck!
Post Edited (2009-05-08 02:39)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-05-08 05:34
The Buffet E11 may compare in price but, IMO, that's about the end of it. The E11 is a wood student model -- essentially a wood B12. The Yamaha 650 is an entry-level professional model. In my experience, the instrument it corresponds most closely to in the Buffet line these days is the R13.
Yamaha has consistently been the one member of the "Big 4" clarinet makers that is willing to compete on price. Some clarinetists prefer other manufacturers' designs to Yamaha's but, if you like their design, the best value for the dollar (within the "Big 4" anyway) is consistently from Yamaha.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sinebar
Date: 2009-05-08 12:48
I have suffered with that particular B every since I started playing the clarinet a few years ago. It generally happens after the bore gets moisture build up from playing just a little while. My problem is that it wants to play a G instead of a B. I have had this problem on vertually every clarinet I have ever owned so its got to be me. Anyway good luck.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
