 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2007-09-17 16:40
Does anyone on this board play the Lyrique Bb Bass Clarinet RCP-925e?
I'm looking for a step-up instrument from my trustworthy Vito and this horn has double register key and other professional features. It's made of hard rubber and should not be as affected by hot weather as is grenadilla.
Would you recommend it for an advanced amateur?
Mike Blinn
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-09-17 17:06
I play four Ridenour b-flat clarinets. Very good and excellent value. Try before buy.
richard smith
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-09-17 19:42
I bought an earlier Ridenour low-C bass clarinet (when it was called Arioso), played it for a month, disliked it and sold it. Excellent value, yes -- but not a real good instrument. Like the man said, 'try before you buy'.
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Author: MichaelR
Date: 2007-09-17 20:15
rtmyth wrote:
> I play four Ridenour b-flat clarinets. Very good and excellent value.
Bass? Makes a difference, the OP was specific about the model.
--
Michael of Portland, OR
Be Appropriate and Follow Your Curiosity
Post Edited (2007-09-17 20:16)
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2007-09-18 02:58
It's my understanding that Tom stopped selling the low C bass clarinet because the mechanism didn't meet his standards. Rather than sell an inferior instrument, he took them off the market.
This, to me, is a testimony to his commitment to selling high quality products, and were I in the market for another bass, I'd order his.
I have owned his A and C models, have liked them bother very much, and steer students to his line of horns when I can, especially when they aren't likely to suffer from "grenadilla prejudice" in college.
B.
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2007-09-18 03:07
The Lyrique Bb Bass Clarinet RCP-925e only goes down to low Eb.
Mike Blinn
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2007-09-21 12:13
This bass clarinet is fairly new and probably not many are in use now. Mr. Ridenour's web site makes a good argument for the use of hard rubber as body material and I agree. I had a hard rubber Noblet Bb that was a joy to play.
But what is the quality of this horn? Does anybody out there play a Lyrique Bb Bass Clarinet RCP-925e?
Mike Blinn
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Author: Mike Johnson
Date: 2007-09-22 20:19
This is my first post, though I've been lurking for quite some time. I've played soprano (mostly), alto, and bass clarinet for 25 years in amateur and community band settings.
I am also considering purchasing a Ridenour RCP-925e bass clarinet. I would love to hear opinions from someone who has tried it. In my web perusal, I have found one positive comment and no negative comments about this model.
Mike Johnson
Napa, California
Post Edited (2008-03-02 00:31)
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2007-09-22 21:39
Tom Ridenour has a trial policy, you might as well find out for yourself!
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Mike Johnson
Date: 2007-09-23 02:04
I'm planning on utilizing the trial policy, though I'm hoping to hear some opinions from people with more expertise than myself first.
Since everyone plays differently, the only way to be sure if an instrument is right for you is to play it yourself. However, when I do my trial, I'd like to do it from an informed perspective. If the bionic fibulator is flimsy, I might not notice it on my own, but I'd want to know about it during my trial so I can give it special attention.
Surely someone out there must have actually played this model (RCP-925e) by now...
Mike Johnson
Napa, California
Mike Johnson
Napa, California
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2008-03-01 06:40
Still no one on this board that can help?
Does anyone on this board play the Lyrique Bb Bass Clarinet RCP-925e?
Mike Blinn
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Author: Blake Arrington
Date: 2008-03-01 13:55
Had a few students that played Ridenour horns. The metal was too soft. Keys were constantly being bent. I hope the quality of the metal has improved on his new stuff.
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Author: Mike Johnson
Date: 2008-03-02 00:35
Blake, the questions are specifically about the RCP-925e. Older versions had soft metals, but this has supposedly been improved in this model.
Did your students specifically use the 925e, or are you referring to the older models?
Mike Johnson
Napa, California
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Author: john connor
Date: 2009-03-23 11:52
I've just ordered a 925e from Tom. I'll let you know what it's like in a couple of weeks, assuming it arrives from the US intact (I'm in Europe).
For what it's worth I have a (very recent) Bb Lyrique from him which I find comfortable and reasonable, for the price. I like it. It plays smooth and is in tune, but it doesn't have the tonal depth, for example, of my greenline R13 - just to take one example. Especially in the lower register. That's just my impression. Everyone seems to have a different perception. You can't notice any difference on recordings between Tom's and any of my other clarinets. I sound the same on whatever I play. So I suppose it's not very reliable to buy on the basis of the perceptions of other players. Easy to confuse response with tone, I think. For myself I find I only ever discover if I really like an instrument when I play live, with others (I play jazz - which probably also makes a difference as I think - very generally speaking, and at the risk of courting ire, classical musicians really do seek homogeneity from their instruments, whereas jazz is more into difference...maybe..)
Anyway, I'll let you know about the 925e.
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Author: Clarinetcola
Date: 2009-03-24 08:25
john I totally agree with you. I've never played Tom's Bass clarinets, what from playing the Bb soprano full time at uni, theses aspects of the soprano horns may reflect on the bass clarinets. They don't feel as "deep" and big as my R13, but other people has complemented my tone and said it was more rounded and clear compared to my R13 (which I couldn't perceive myself). The keys are of reaaallly bad quality. The bend super easily(but are easily bent back into place as well) and I needed keys to be reshaped as they were near impossible to play. The intonation is really secure except the low E and F -- and lastly I find it harder to play altissimo on tom's instruments. Bottomline - its a very good instrument for its price and I would recommend it to any adventurous clarinet players.
Nathan
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2009-03-24 10:59
john,
would you mind if i pass by once you have it ??
I'm very interested to hear one in real life. I'm working in brussels by the way.
And already play a ridenour Bb.
Good tone , bad keywork .
When exchanging barrels with my wood selmer clarinet i get nearly the same tone as with the selmer. Easier to play then a wooden clarinet or easier in the altissimo : i don't notice , although a lot of people say so . Maybe a bit easier for the altissimo. But very interesting when playing outside in - 5° to 15° Celsius ( a bit too cold for wood )
gr
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2009-03-24 17:33
I purchased a Lyrique Bb soprano directly from Tom at his shop in Dallas. I emailed him what I wanted and made an appointment to go to see him in person. Thankfully I live close enough to drive up and spend some time there "tweeking" things. He had several ready for me to try when I came up and one was just what I wanted.
He's excellent to work with you, so send him an email and ask about a trial period. It's worth the shipping expense if you are able to get a good instrument. You'll never really know until you actually try one. My opinion might be positive, but yours might not be when you actually put your hands on one.
A friend of mine who owns a major music store and sells hundreds of clarinets to a wide territory in Texas (my home state) told me that bass clarinets are all difficult mechanically to perfect. He recommended the Buffet bass clarinet. It is, however, VERY expensive. So, even if you don't like everything about the Lyrique, Tom is very good to work with and will not send you a bad product.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-24 17:37
Tom can 'tweak' the bass clarinet all he wants before shipment, but the problem is, once you get it, it begins to fall apart almost immediately. That was the case with the one I purchased a few years ago, and from other postings it seems that my experience was not isolated. Maybe the newer crop is more rugged, I sure hope so!
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-03-25 01:17
Come on now! Bad keywork? "BAD"?
I own Rossi C, Bb, and A clarinets, with a fourth on the way.
I've owned two Leblanc Opi and several other professional-level models made by them, including a straight contrabass.
I own an 1963 R13 Bb, and a Patricola eefer.
've owned a set of Selmer 10Gs.
I've played Yamaha, Eaton, and a passle of other "high-end" models from various makers at various times, though none extensively.
I own, have owned, and play or have played five Ridenour Bbs, two Ridenour As, and a Ridenour Lyrique low C bass.
I've seen nothing "bad" about Tom's key work on any of the clarinets of his that I've owned or played over the past seven or eight years now, even the highly maligned T-147, including the low C Lyrique bass.
No, not the best, and maybe not even not even approaching "the best." But "bad"?
Sometimes the most direct riposte is the most accurate, so here goes:
Anyone who uses the word "bad" to describe any of Tom's instruments, past or present, or any component of them, is likely suffering from grenadilla poisoning, extremely limited experience, or blind prejudice.
Forget what the mob says on one hand, and discount my own experience of 50 years of involvement with the instrument (because I'm a clarinet nobody) on the other hand, if it pleases you. But if Friedland and many others who aren't clarinet nobodys like me don't think that Ridenour instruments or their components are "bad," they're not "bad."
B.
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2009-03-25 11:09
As i said , good tone , keywork quality and ergonomics ( placement and feel ) could be improved .
When the word "bad" bothers bmcgar , i'll use the expression "could be improved" .
I did buy the ridenour for playing ouside. I'm from Belgium. A few people from the Netherlands were also interested to try out the clarinet before buying. I agreed with ridenour that they could pass by at my place to test the clarinet. I gave no appreciation and just gave them the ridenour to let them compare their clarinets and the ridenour one. I also played some stuff on more then one clarinet , because i was curious to hear their comments as "external" listeners. ( you don't hear exactly the same thing when you are the player )
They had the same remarks about the keywork. Maybe nothing that you can't get used to, but just not good enough to want to take the clarinet home immediately. The tone was oke for them.
So i think this is a correct description of my experience , maybe the word bad was somewhat overdone. Conclusion : could certainly be improved
Still in the market for a ridenour bassclarinet though, if i can test one first.
I'm not interested in the holy war about plastic , ebonite , wood , metal , whatever they want to make it from , as you seem to think. It needs a nice tone and has to be ergonomically easy and a joy to play, preferably without a price tag of 4000,- euro
=====================================================
I also do play for nearly 35 years , lots of different clarinets ( metal , wood , old ,new , normal , full boehm ) and even a leblanc straight contrabass :-) besides 2 basses ( wood, plastic ) , alto and contra-alto (plastic ) clarinet. Not that the number of clarinets says something about mature musicianship or maturity . But it allows to make some comparisons between different makes.
I do study music every day ( between 1 and 2 hours ) and am a regular performer in jazz/klemer . So i feel confident enough to report my personal vision on sound and ergonomics. But i would never send a post like the one above, with assumptions , insinuations or whatever you want to call them ( "likely suffering from grenadilla poisoning, extremely limited experience, or blind prejudice" ) . "Bad" words indeed . I would have asked : what do you mean with the word "bad" . And by the way , i am a ridenour clarinet owner .
Keywork
======
As a matter of fact , on the sherman site you will find he asked tom to do some adaptations to the keywork :-) .
On this board , you'll find the same comment from some other buyers. One from sweden i think with an extensive description of his impressions. Seems i'm not the only one.
=========
Another story : also once asked on this board to record some sounds from the three different bass clarinets ( selmer , buffet , ridenour ) just to get an idea about the sound . I'm not interested in scientific comparisons , just a few quick sound files in the basic registers. I did test some buffets and selmers , and don't have a ridenour bass at my disposal.
Reason : return policies are only easy to use in the states. Every product coming into a european country is taxed with 16 to 21% vat , some duty tax etc before it is delivered to the tester. It's possible , but a hassle to avoid paying this when returning goods . Sherman did agree , with some other people , to record some stuff. Never heard of it again , but afterwards found an article on his site "about a gentleman from belgium asking a question to him" . Not exactly the way i would use/interprete someones communication from another board , without answering on the board itself.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=278673&t=278673
Conclusion : i think a lot of people are following the ridenour clarinet line , what means that the instrument has certainly its qualities. To say we did enter a new era of perfect clarinet tuning, solely for this type of clarinet ?? I don't think so . My other clarinets are tuning as well. It has more to do with price/performance .
I hope john connor will contact me so i can hear that bass live and decide on buying it . I can't explain it better then with this before-last sentence :-)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-03-25 14:31
But if it was a dollars for dollars (or Euros for Euros) comparison, would the Yamaha 221 II be one of the better values in bass clarinets? That's the name that keeps bubbling back up. Granted, just a low Eb but in my playing regimen, a few more low notes are really not needed.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-25 14:44
Hank, that's an apples-to-oranges comparison. In the $1200-$2000 US price range there are plenty of (new) low-Eb bass clarinets of which the latest Yamaha is probably the best --- but very few low-C instruments, all of which (to the best of my knowledge) are Chinese-made and have numerous deficiencies which have been exhaustively discussed in this thread and others. If you don't need the extended range, you probably can't do better in a new instrument than with the Yamaha. But if you need the lower notes as many of us do, it's a whole different ball game.
And of course, there is the world of used instruments.....but I digress.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-03-25 16:00
Yes, perhaps a used classic BC with a skilled tech/MP refacer doing a tune up or even a complete overhaul.
If only there was such a person but most of those types may be off writing poetry or designing rockets.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2009-03-25 16:05
I think you could find a good tech to refurbish a good used bass. I would also consider a used Leblanc Bass clarinet. They are good instruments. I don't know about the low C.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-25 16:58
There are no good techs, and no such thing as a good used bass clarinet. All of these died with the Dodo Bird and the Woolly Mammoth.
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Author: katzer
Date: 2009-03-25 17:39
I recently bought a Yamaha 221II so FWIW:
intonation is great throughout. The keywork is very sturdy. The build quality is good period. I am very pleased with the sound. Very pleased.
Compared to the
the very old buffet prestige (Low c) I played 10 years ago in the Young Israeli Phil, the yamaha is better on all the accounts I mentioned above.
If you are on a budget and can live with the Eb range, the Yamaha should be high on the list of options to consider.
Erez
Post Edited (2014-08-07 11:56)
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2009-03-25 18:11
John, Buedsma,
I also work in Brussels and I'm also interested in hearing/seeing the lyrique low C live. I'd appreciate it very much if I could be involved in a possible meeting about the subject :-)
Greetings,
Johan.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-03-25 20:07
Erez,
Thanks for the Yamaha update. I can appreciate your concern about the other issues you have spoken about.
HRL
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2009-03-26 02:01
I don't own a 925e, but I do own a 925c. One of the guys that I play with several times a month does own a 925e and I have played it many times, and that is the reason that I got my 925c. The 925e that my fellow clarinetist plays is quite nice. I have owned quite a few basses and a couple of contras. My most recent bass before the 925c was a Selmer 35 (low Eb). Once I received my 925c, my Selmer was relegated to the dissapointing position of a loaner instrument, which didn't seem right for a pro horn, so I reluctantly sold it.
I did give Tom a list of requirements for the 925c horn when I ordered it, based on my experience with other basses and my assessment of my fellow clarinetist's 925e, and he did a great job of making sure that it felt and played like my Selmer bass and as consistent as my Ridenour sopranos.
The only thing that I've had to report back to Tom as problems are spring strengths (and an incorrect size on one of them). I've had three springs go bad so far. He has given me good direction on what to do in every case. My former Selmer and the Leblanc before that required much more adjustment in their early months than the 925c has required. I spent $5 to get the first spring replaced, put a rubber band on the second one, and I am just working around the 3rd spring problem on the double octave key. Once I get through with this next musical, I'll send it back to the shop, probably spend $20 to get it playing and sounding better than my Selmer.
SO, my experience with 925e and 925c has all been very positive compared to all of the mainline basses out there.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-03-26 05:00
I pretty much agree with Erez and Dave about the Yamaha 221II (actually I'm not sure if the one I tried was a II or not).
One question: Erez are you sure the 221II is made in Japan i.e. does it say on the instrument? I know some Yamaha student and even intermediate models are now made in Indonesia. IME they are still very good, but curious if the (student) bass is really still made in Japan?
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Author: katzer
Date: 2009-03-26 05:36
The case is made in Malaysia , the clarinet itself is made in Japan.
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Author: john connor
Date: 2009-03-26 21:36
Happy to let anyone who wants to (bring their mouthpiece along, if poss, and) try the 925e, when it arrives (tomorrow, I'm told) and after I've had a chance to play with it. I'm in Wolluwe St. Pierre. The two guys interested can mail me at J.connor@skynet.be to arrange. It's a low Eb I'm getting, not a low C. I'm slated to pay 129euros customs, by the way, on a 1,900 dollar instrument, Fed ex included (Tom was generous with his recession discount, I think). That still makes it cheaper to buy than the Yamaha, which I believe is outrageously priced (cheapest I could find in Europe was about £1,500, roughly EU1,700, or $2,200, at these present awful rates of exchange) for an instrument with a single octave mechanism. Of course, if the Ridenour is awful I'll send it back and get the Yamaha from Thomann.
For what it's worth the bendy keywork thing MUST be a past thing on Ridenours because I bought a Lyrique pro off Tom about four months ago and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the keywork. It's comfortable, robust, accurate. I read all the posts about dodgy keywork and out of line screws and so on and they don't chime at all - the instrument is mechanically fine, I believe. Of course, I'm a thriller writer who plays clarinet in groups with friends, so what do I know? But I have had a decent collection of clarinets, old and new, and I think keywork issues aren't so difficult to judge.
The issue about Chinese is hard, as all sanctions issues are hard, and as an Israeli writer might well know. But, I really think I can smell prejudice behind a lot of the antipathy. It was like that with Japanese made instruments not so very long ago, of course.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-03-27 02:08
As far as flexible keywork goes -- on soprano clarinet it's an annoyance, but on bass clarinet it's deadly. I'm eagerly awaiting the reviews of Mr. Ridenour's latest bass clarinet to see if that issue has been put to rest.
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-04-04 15:56
John Connor,
What's the word on the horn after a couple of weeks? Keywork?
jsc
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-04-04 17:54
I've had no problem, but I don't play it a great deal either, and I'm certainly no expert on the bass clarinet.
The metal seems more rigid than the instrument it replaced, a Leblanc LL.
The key layout hasn't been a problem for me.
I can't compare it to the vaunted Buffet 1193 because I don't know anyone within a hundred miles who could afford one.
I'm looking for case for a one-piece body so I don't have to keep stressing the key rods when assembling and disassembling. But I'd do this regardless of what bass clarinet I owned; I'm not doing it out of any fear that the Lyrique keywork is below par.
B.
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-04-04 17:57
I think ProTec has one. DEG has a hard case one with a nice interior. The inside lid may take some breaking in.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-04-04 18:19
bmcgar,
I'm in Ch'ville and will certainly be down in Blacksburg this fall. Maybe we can work out a trade? I'll bring my 1193 if you let me try one of your Rossi clarinets?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: john connor
Date: 2009-04-04 18:21
I've had the instrument about a week now. It's a 925e. I've owned, previously, one bass clarinet with a double octave mechanism - an 80s buffet prestige. It was Low C and sounded impressive down low, but it was very awkward to keep in regulation, I found. I sold it on a long time ago. Then I had the old Yamaha student model, and a Vito, one piece, hard plastic. So, the Ridenour is my fourth bass. Through all that I've never really been sure whether I like bass clarinet or not, enough to put the time in, I mean. I'm still not sure.
The Ridenour seems to me to be better than all the aforementioned bass clarinets, but bear in mind the Yamaha I had was the old model. It's nicely in tune - with one exception - it's nicely set up, it souds good, I think, though I'm no expert and I'm playing jazz, not classical. The one exception is the Low E (the Eb is ok). The low E is flat, and so flat that I notice immediately. The corresponding B, just over the break, is spot on. To a certain extent we can say this is inherent in clarinets, (this is more or less what Tom Ridenour said when I mailed him - he said he could bring it up, but that would put the b sharp), to a certain extent not. The other basses didn't have this problem because, I think, they traded against the b which was always a little sharp. C'est la vie, perhaps. But I feel a slight trade off would have been better, because then I could have loosened up on the B and lipped the E up. As it is I can't lip the E into tune at all. I can lip it into a range where it's not very noticeable unless you have perfect pitch, but this involves a very significant embouchure alteration. The other basses I've tried - particularly the 80s Prestige low c buffet - had all sorts of other (worse) intonation problems. It's noticeable that the ridenour I have has this problem because every other note is spot on, for me.
Keywork? Most of the keywork feels strong. The left hand c/f lever appears quite soft and perhaps vulnerable, I think. I play without it bending at all, but perhaps if you have big hands and exerted a lot of pressure it would bend too easily. I wouldn't like to trust it to a kid, maybe. The Vito is not like this, of course. the Vito is built like a tank. But it sounds a bit like one too. The ridenour doesn't. I don't have any other keywork issues, though the layout for the left hand pinky hitting C sharp is odd, and for me takes getting used to - the C sharp key is far too close in, I think. I would bend it to where I want, but it has a rigid angle on it which I suspect will break under too much pressure. I can get used to it though.
I'm keeping it. Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement, does it? But that's because those two faults are there, and because I'm still getting used to it. The double octave certainly makes a tonal difference, I think, just across the break, for the better. For jazz I'm not sure the amount of difference would make me NEED a double octave mechanism though, and if the Yamaha had really very much stronger keywork then I might be tempted to go for that instead. But then, I haven't tried it, so that's speculation. The Vito realy is a shed by comparison, I should say. Very large tonal differences between registers. The Ridenour is quite homogenous from top to bottom by comparison.
I should add - it doesn't start falling to bits or go out of adjustment or out of tune, as has been suggested.
There are two (real) musicians coming round in a few days to have a go on it. Hopefully they are more clued in on basses than I am. I'm sure they'll post something more useful.
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-04-04 18:31
Thanks John. I really am interested to hear what the others think of it. I just bought an Buffet A months ago and so spending $9000+ isn't quite in the cards. This, I hope would be a good alternative. I don't play professionally but having a better than decent bass would come in handy.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-04-04 23:09
Certainly, Tim.
Anyone who is interested in trying my horns is welcome to stop by.
Blacksburg is no clarinet metropolis, that's for sure. (Sometimes I feel as if I live in a Pony Express way station, clarinetally.) So visits from other players are always welcome.
Come on down! (Just not all at once.)
B.
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Author: jsc
Date: 2009-04-05 05:49
Blacksburg could become the site of the worlds largest clarinet choir. Kind of scary but cool at the same time.
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Author: graham
Date: 2009-04-06 11:38
Oh for that in-tune B! I know that manufacturers have to consider all possible uses and that low Es have importance in, say, band music. But in the orchestral scene I would tolerate a flat bottom E in order not to have to mess around with a sharp B. I think Ridenour has got it right there.
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Author: john connor
Date: 2009-04-06 11:41
Interesting, Graham. That's what Tom said - that mostly players wanted the b in tune. I guess he listened to you. I'm getting used to bringing the E up now, anyway. It's a very nice instrument, I think. very easy to play. Wish I could try a (new style) Yamaha to compare.
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2009-04-06 12:07
Re: the flat low E/sharp middle B - Steve Fox has told me the only way to get it right on both notes is to tune the middle B correctly, and install a compensating key (manually activated) to raise the pitch of the low E.
The difficulty with having a flat low E is that the bassoon's low D (same concert pitch) tends to be sharp.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2009-04-08 10:56
So we went to john's place and did play shortly on his new ridenour bassclarinet. ....
And indeed , no problems with keywork whatsoever, no misalignments or other stuff .Good keywork . No tuning issues , even the low E that john connor was talking about was completely manageable after two seconds . I used a rather soft 2,5 vandooren reed , that also makes a difference.
The sound , as always , is something else . Difficult to judge , personal history and preferences make a difference. It certainly has a bassclarinet sound , but maybe not the sound i'm looking for . It's also different from what i'm used to . I'm leaving price/value/performance estimations to other people.
When you really want to know more , mail me
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-04-08 11:34
I've just tried a bunch of Chinese bass clarinets. I don't think there are many makers (maybe even only one or two, I don't know), so some of them were probably the same eventhough sold by different companies. All were either low Eb with single reg or low C with double reg.
As far as the keys they felt ok. Definitely not as good as Buffet, Yamaha or Selmer, but I thought they were reasonable. I'm not sure about consistency, because omse played much better than others, and it's possibly only because of adjustment problems. I couldn't really say how the keys would last over time, but they were definitely better than some clarinets I see that can fall apart after days.
The ones that worked good had no problems of sound, and was possible to play the entire range with no problems. The tone was decent, although some had a bit of a harsh tone, especially in the lowest notes. I like some (pro) models much better, but I like them much better than other pro models too, and it's not a fair comparison.
The worst part for me was that I just didn't think the keys were very ergonomic. For example the Eb/Bb key was in a way that right hand first finger touched it (not opening it, but annoying rubbing). I've read that these might be copied from Yamaha bass clarinets, but I thought the Yamaha bass clarinet was great and didn't have any of these ergnomic problems.
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Author: ampeters
Date: 2009-04-23 18:17
Dear Mr Connor,
Please excuse me for "breaking into this thread" with something completely different (my apologies also to the other users of this thread).
On another bulletin board I noticed your request of 2004 for information on a Cabart a Paris Soprano.
The fact is, that I bought a Cabart a Paris Alto via Ebay just one week ago, and likewise try to find information about it.
Just as your Soprano, it will be a "stencil", but originating from which company? The same?
I found a Lyrist Soprano picture on the webpage mentioned below, of which the "rings attaching the bell to the body" seem identical to the rings on my Cabart a Paris Alto.
http://www.williampetit.com/soprano.htm
Chances are, that that Soprano resembles yours, and that our instruments were made by the same company. Perhaps Selmer/A.E. Sax?
I just emailed the owner of that webpage for information, and will inform you as soon as I know more, if you wish.
If so, could you then please give me a short email via "peters.am@telfort.nl"?
Kind regards,
André Peters
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2009-04-23 18:44
"Oh for that in-tune B! I know that manufacturers have to consider all possible uses and that low Es have importance in, say, band music. But in the orchestral scene I would tolerate a flat bottom E in order not to have to mess around with a sharp B. I think Ridenour has got it right there."
I'm certainly from the opposite camp for what it's worth (which I know isn't much)... I don't at all mind having the B a bit high, indeed the sound when it's brought down a bit is certainly part of 'my' sound on the bass. On the other hand being able to fang the low E without it being flat is a beautiful thing.
Now the bottom _C#_ on the Buffet is another matter. No real excuses there...
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2009-04-30 15:01
Just to be sure re the in-tune B/flat E matter - are we talking about the 925e (low Eb) or the 925c (low C) Ridenour bass?
If it was a low Eb issue, am I correct that the sense is that the low C is pretty much in-tune anywhere over the registers?
Also, what is the highest useful altissimo note on the 925c?
Thanks.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-04-30 15:47
FYI BlatNH, there is no such thing as a "highest altissimo note" on any woodwind instrument --- the upper end of the range is limited only by the mouthpiece/reed combination and the player's ability to squeeze, pinch, provide wind pressure and determine whatever fingering works up there to produce any given "note" right up to the limits of audibility. Now the musicality of such sounds --- that's a different story.
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Author: john connor
Date: 2009-04-30 16:58
I bought a 925e. I have no idea about the Low C clarinets. The flat low e is no real issue, I think. It is possible to play it in tune, probably very easily if you are a better bass player than myself.
I've had the Ridenour for a month or so now. No keywork issues, no set up issues, though I had to tighten up the springs on the rod which comes up from the D/A key and operates the second register vent, as these springs are crucial to keeping the vents regulated on this particular mechanism. They were set too soft, not giving enough back pressure and allowing the lower vent to open a fraction when it shouldn't have. Easy enough to tighten them, of course, so no complaints there. Once done they've remained pretty stiff, so no probs. I would give the instrument full marks for mechanics and build. 9.9 out of 10 for intonation, given the slight issue with the low e (but, the Buffet I tried last week had the same issue, so it's not just a cheap instrument issue).
I don't really like the tone though. Not now I've had it a bit and messed around with mouthpieces etc. Best i can do to describe it is to say that i find it a tad brittle, rather than deep and dark etc. I also have a Pro Lyrique sop Bb and I would say the same about this instrument - despite all that is said about ebonite/hard rubber (usually by those wishing to sell it) it definitely does not have the same tonal properties as wood, especially at high volume. You push a lot of air through and you notice it. The bore etc does change the sound, of course - is the major factor- but the more volume you give it the more the actual material resonates, giving you the sound of the material itself. And I'm certain there's nothing to beat wood in this respect. I've played and owned many, many different clarinets, of all manner of materials. All of them sound ok when you play quiet with the right set-up) - even a Buffet B12 - but as you push the instrument you begin to see why wood works so well, I think.
So, I would probably say better to get a second hand wooden instrument, even without the double register. That's my opinion, I think.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2009-04-30 20:56
DS- Thanks and I understand in general. I was trying to get a sense if the 925e or 925c was any better or worse in that regard.
I'm thinking of playing some pieces written for cello, and I am interested in when you've wrestled with the musicality of the higher notes, and when you've taken the risk of playing at or beyond the range of musicality and how you came to make that decision to do it or not (done other things like change the notes, drop an octave, add vibrato, etc.).
JC- Thanks for the comment on the tone.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-05-01 00:25
You seem sure that it's the material the clarinet is made from rather than the physical dimension of the bore, tone holes, and so forth, that's determining the way the clarinet sounds to you.
Can you tell us how you know this?
B.
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Author: justme
Date: 2009-05-01 00:45
John Conner said:
"
I don't really like the tone though. Not now I've had it a bit and messed around with mouthpieces etc. Best i can do to describe it is to say that i find it a tad brittle, rather than deep and dark etc. I also have a Pro Lyrique sop Bb and I would say the same about this instrument - despite all that is said about ebonite/hard rubber (usually by those wishing to sell it) it definitely does not have the same tonal properties as wood, especially at high volume. You push a lot of air through and you notice it. The bore etc does change the sound, of course - is the major factor- but the more volume you give it the more the actual material resonates, giving you the sound of the material itself. And I'm certain there's nothing to beat wood in this respect. I've played and owned many, many different clarinets, of all manner of materials. All of them sound ok when you play quiet with the right set-up) - even a Buffet B12 - but as you push the instrument you begin to see why wood works so well, I think."
I believe that you're used to a certain tone and prefer it. It doesn't mean that the tone isn't good on these clarinets.
In fact, many prefer it and state that it plays better, is more in tune, and easier to get the highs than anything out there. This is from people who have no interest in "selling" these instruments.
Comments:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/clarinetcomments.html
Comments from Welsh National Opera Principal Clarinetist, Leslie Craven: http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/cravenreview.html
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-05-01 03:31
John Connor wrote:
"... the more volume you give it the more the actual material resonates, giving you the sound of the material itself. And I'm certain there's nothing to beat wood in this respect."
There's nothing further to be said about both statements of fact in this passage other than to point out that both are wrong (especially the statement about resonance), and not backed by anything other than hearsay, hand-me-down wisdom, and assertion rather than research.
B.
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Author: john connor
Date: 2009-05-01 07:21
Yes, well, I did anticipate a lively response, as always happens in the debate about materials and sound qualities, etc. I should add, I suppose, that the Ridenour does make it very easy to play the higher notes, and they sound beautiful and clear, but there aren't just high notes on a clarinet, and you need to get it so that the full range sounds beautiful. Intonation should be a given, within acceptable ranges (of price and variation). Tom has stated that he made compromises, in design, in favour of the upper register (as most clarinetists, he says, spend most of their playing time up there), and I think this shows. But it does only show, as I stated, when you push the instrument into higher dynamics. It's arguable that each instrument has a maximum volume range, outwith of which the sound quality will deteriorate. So maybe the Ridenour is better for chamber work?
I would say that the discussion about judging sound quality, generally, not just on this board, is plagued by a misconception about what might count as 'evidence' when making value judgements about things like tonal qualities (or response, or almost anything musical, in fact), and the misconception (interestingly, coming from musicians) trades on a confusion about what can and cannot be subjective, or objective, in terms of judgements, taking its lead from the model provided by natural scientific understanding. Basically, almost everyone who discusses sound quality seems to think that since sound quality cannot be measured and calibrated in the same way (meaning with the same language) that, say, temperature or pressure can (or any other natural phenomena dealt with by science) therefore you have to subscribe to some kind of relativism about it - whereby you generally preface all comments and judgements with the rider - 'just in my opinion' etc. Because - it is implied - there can't be a truth about it which goes beyond personal opinion. This is a common post-modern way of thinking, I think. It has, as a benefit, that you can try to avoid offending people by claiming only to be giving your opinion. But then, what would be the point of that, if your opinion counted for nothing in terms of what was really the case? Sufficeth to say that there are other languages (aside from that of science) used for making objective judgements about all manner of things - and we do in fact use a language of musical judgement, if you like, all the time we have discussions on this forum, for example. So, whilst I may be wrong (that's always possible) when I say that the Ridenour has, comparatively, a more brittle sound than, say, a comparable wood instrument, I mean not just that this is my opinion, but that this is my judgement about what is the truth about the Ridenour. It's the truth that people are interested in, I assume, when they ask on this forum for 'reviews' of instruments. Someone might disagree with me and we could then have a discussion and see who was right, but someone is right, and someone wrong. Either the Rideour is more brittle in sound, or it isn't. This isn't just a matter of some kind of subjective judgement. Of course, if the person disagreeing confines their discussion to a denial of the possibility of discussion (as in 'there's nothing further to be said..other than that he's wrong' etc) then we won't even get near a sensible discussion. Assertion is, by itself, not an argument. Reporting honestly the results of your experience (including playing experience and your judgement about tonal qualities) is, in itself, to provide evidence which is, of course, other than 'hearsay, hand-me-down wisdom and assertion'. Surely that'sd obvious?
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Author: justme
Date: 2009-05-01 08:02
John:-,
It's not just the advantage of "playing up high," but many other things as well.
AS posted earlier, many also prefer the tone of the Lyrique over the others, as well as the fact that it seems to play more in tune and easier as well.
Then there is the consistency factor...
You don't go through 6 to 10 instruments trying to find one that plays more in tune and "sounds right."
There's also at least 4 different barrels in two different styles as well as a range of mouthpieces with different facings and levels on the Lyrique web site as well. You can get quite a range and "find your voice" with what's offered.
I also defer to other s who's expertise is far more advanced than mine on this issue.
Sherman Friedland for example ( and he's but one of many)...
On his web site:
http://clarinetcorner.wordpress.com/
you'll find many articles about the Lyriques as well as others.
If you haven't heard of him there's a short bio about him there.
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Author: justme
Date: 2009-05-01 08:14
Sorry Mike,
I went off on a soprano tangent when this was a discussion about the bass ( but the sopranos were thrown into the fray eariler by otthers LOL)
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Author: john connor
Date: 2009-05-01 10:22
The opinion of those who play better than I is very important, and why I've gone back to the Ridenour again and again to try with it.
I think you'll find that Sherman comes out as recommending a wood Yamaha for an instrument in this price range. He does sing the praises of the Ridenour, but on balance recommends wood, I believe. He can correct me if I'm wrong.
Leslie Craven, if you read all the material, seems to have found it necessary to put a wooden Backun bell on her Ridenour (and barrel also, I think) to get the lower register as resonant as she needs. Once again, she can correct me if I'm wrong. I can put a wood bell on mine too and get that effect, of course, but I was commenting, really, on the ebonite v wood issue.
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Author: justme
Date: 2009-05-01 21:18
John:-,
Just do a search for Lyrique on his web site, you'll find many articles on these instruments.
Yes, he does like the Yamaha when referring to that price range, but he prefers the lyrique over it as well as the most expensive clarinets. (check out the article Lyrique versus tosca).
Here's just a couple of quotes from his web site:
Lyrique still plays better in tune and timbre than any other.
I also own a set of Lyrique clarinets made and designed by Tom Ridenour and those are the best tuned clarinets , the most even sounding I have ever played. Ebonite has a more mellifluous quality than does any wood of which I know.
I've included the search page results if you would like to review it.
There's many articles on the lyrique.
http://clarinetcorner.wordpress.com/?s=lyrique
As far as as Leslie Craven is concerned...
He loved the lyrique. The only thing that he didn't like about it was the lower tone in some types of music which he corrected by putting another bell on it.
Tom has barrels to 67 mm with different bores as well as pro mouthpieces with different facings that you can chose for darker, lower tones, or whatever your pleasure.
No clarinet is "perfect", but I think that the lyrique pro model with your choice of barrels and mouthpieces will accomplish the sound and result that you're looking for.
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Author: MarkB
Date: 2009-05-02 02:34
Hi,
I've been playing on the Lyrique RCP-925e Bb bass clarinet (with low Eb) for a couple of years or so. I'm currently using it with Grabner's CXZ_LB and a modified CX_BB_90 with Alexander reeds. I usually get positive comments on my tone and most ask if it is a wood bass. I'm pretty happy with the Lyrique.
I've tried quite a few basses within the price range including the Yamaha and Selmer. I ended up liking the Lyrique the best, but it is not perfect, then again none are. I also tried the old Bb Bass that Ridenour used to sell. I can say the new Lyrique is much better including more robust keywork.
The only real problem I have is with the bridge keys from assembling and disassembling the horn. I have to make sure that the keys stay in regulation. Intonation is pretty even except for the low E which is quite flat.
Someone mentioned earlier that an additional custom key can be made to help raise the low E for better intonation. I'm thinking this might be a worthwhile addition. I'd probably prefer it to be actuated by the right hand thumb below the thumb rest. Who could I get to make me this key? I'm in the Chicagoland area if that helps.
Thanks.
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2009-05-02 13:00
MarkB wrote:
> Someone mentioned earlier that an additional custom key can be
> made to help raise the low E for better intonation. I'm
> thinking this might be a worthwhile addition. I'd probably
> prefer it to be actuated by the right hand thumb below the
> thumb rest. Who could I get to make me this key? I'm in the
> Chicagoland area if that helps.
>
Steve Fox does this on basses he makes. I'm not sure if he'll retrofit it. It is indeed operated by the RH thumb.
You'd have to ship your instrument to Canada.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2009-05-04 11:05
regarding the material discussion :
When there is no difference in material used , it should be the construction of the instrument that makes the difference.
What amazes me about all those people that find the lyrique so much better then their own clarinet : which instrument were you playing before the lyrique ??
I play a selmer 10SII : a very in tune instrument , just as my previous leblanc esprit . Easy to play altissimo on both .
Can't see how the lyrique is better ( i didn't say it is worse ) .
It is a bit easier in altissimo and a bit too modest in lower chalumeau.
A lyrique owner ( after 2 months of playing )
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Author: john connor
Date: 2009-05-04 12:00
The only top range instruments I have where I have both in ebonite and wood are 1010s and 926s. The 1010 ebonite, for example, comes from the thirties, and I have a wood 1010 from that era too. Both in excellent condition as far as bore characteristics go. Both sound beautiful to me (the 1010 sound is my thing, I should say) - with a distinctive 1010 type of sound, but the difference I mentioned with the Ridenour is definitely present - push the volume on both and you will know which is wood and which rubber - the wood retains the full range of tone colour at high volume, the ebonite becomes more 'shrill' - ie more treble in the sound, less bass. No reason to think B&H designed the bore and toneholes any different on either model and the measurements - where I can take them - are certainly the same. The 926s are both sixties instruments and the same thing is apparent.
I have R13s in greenline and wood too. Here they both sound great at higher volumes, I think, with, in fact, the Greenline having the darker sound, heavier on the bottom end (and it's a much, much heavier instrument).
Just for what it's worth, a propos of Marc Bueds comment.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-05-05 06:34
With good bass clarinets, approx a middle compromise between low E and middle B is reasonable and IMO an extra key would be a bit overkill and not necessary. Maybe if someone already owns a bass clarinet with a bigger problem with that interval it makes more sense....?
>> Now the bottom _C#_ on the Buffet is another matter. No real excuses there... <<
The ones I've played didn't have a problem with the low C#. Intonation similar to surounding notes and very managable. I mean the current model. Maybe you meant a different model?
Post Edited (2009-05-05 06:59)
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2010-01-09 06:02
Ive been looking for a new bass clarinet for awhile, and Ive read everything in this thread and I think Im gonna go with the Yamaha YCL 221 II. Ive read many reviews about this instrument, and I havent heard a single bad thing about it. I mainly want a good sounding bass that I can play outside, right now I play on a wood Buffet, low E.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-02-12 06:34
Hi All,
Does anyone have any additional insights on the 925e bass clarinet? It has been 5 years since this thread was active last so I imagine there may be some more current info out there.
HRL
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Author: dibble
Date: 2015-02-12 13:25
I still think that the low register of the lyrique (bass and Bb) is weaker than every wooden horn i have tried. I find the tone of hard rubber to have an opaque quality with a softer articulation. I think many people enjoy these aspects of the horn though. Bold would be the last word I'd use to describe the tone.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2015-02-12 16:25
"Bold would be the last word I'd use to describe the tone."
Sometimes this has as much to do with the musician as it does with the instrument.
"I still think that the low register of the lyrique (bass and Bb) is weaker than every wooden horn i have tried."
But how is the evenness? If just the low part of the chalumeau register is "weak" (soft?) and the clarion register pops, that's a real problem. On the other hand, if it's even, but more of a mellow sound, that's not necessarily a bad thing as maybe you're indicating.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-02-12 17:48
Dibble,
So you have a 925e bass clarinet now? If so, what about intonation and mechanical considerations.
In my present performance palate, proper pitch and playability are preferred over power and punch (a little alliteration for GBK).
HRL
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Author: dibble
Date: 2015-02-13 03:04
I do have a 925e. Other than the low left hand D key, The mechanics have held up well for many years and is still doing ok. I think the intonation is pretty good.
I agree with the older comment about the tone sounding brittle in loud dynamics.
All things considered, I think it is a good value, but I was spoiled early on by playing an old Selmer 33 bass which had an incredible tone. I'm saving up to one day have a wooden bass again.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-02-13 06:13
Thanks, Dibble. It would seem that the reed and MP might have something to do with your "brittle" comment.
I am playing an older 147 with a Roger Garrett MP, MO ligature, and #3 Rico Royals. I like the combo a lot but also have a Dave McClune Selmer C** that he has refaced to his S2 specs. It is a tad too close for me with #3 reeds. But I'm making friends.
HRL
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2015-02-14 02:21
I play the Lyrique 925c low-C bass, and I quite like it. It has served me very well for the past year and a half, first on the North American Broadway tour of the revival of "West Side Story", as well as a post-tour off-Broadway show, two cast recordings, and several chamber music concerts. I find nothing at all lacking about the sound of the instrument, particularly in the bottom. On the contrary, I find it warm, resonant, and the intonation is quite excellent.
For under $3,000, you can't beat it with a stick.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-02-14 19:32
Cocobolo,
That sounds like a great tour gig!!!! Evidently, the Ridenour BC is right for the job and "For under $3,000, you can't beat it with a stick." Then throw in warm, resonate, and intonation quite excellent"
Enuff said.
Thanks,
HRL
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Author: r small
Date: 2016-07-30 08:14
I tried out a 925e at a local music store today. Initial impression were mostly favorable. Sound and response in particular were surprisingly good for a two thousand dollar horn. I attribute a lot of that to the double register vents. I have never heard of a bass cl. in this price range with double register vents. Keywork was adequate. Not as ergonomic as I'd like. Some judicious key bending and cork risers on certain keys (left hand B/E maybe) could improve fingering. One negative (should be fixable): my beloved custom made Charles Bay mpc wouldn't fit into the neck socket. Fortunately the horn came with a Ridenour mpc that played pretty well. I intend to go back to the store in a couple of days with a few more of my pieces (Selmer H, a Beechler, a Vandoren, and another Bay) for a more thorough workout. Then I'll report back.
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Author: r small
Date: 2016-08-05 17:22
Well, I bought the 925e. Returned it two days later for a refund. The action was very stiff and uncomfortable. But I figured it could be tweaked to be made easier. But three different techs told me that due to inferior metal that these instruments are difficult to repair and adjust, and that they tend to need repairs frequently. One highly regarded tech that I talked to won't work on Ridenour instruments at all. Won't even touch them. So that was that and back it went. Anyone considering one of these instruments check with your tech.
Post Edited (2016-08-05 23:35)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-08-05 18:02
Basses and large woodwind instruments in general suffer with torsion in the long rods and long levers due to them being up to and maybe more than double their lengths compared to Bb clarinets, so if the metal the keywork is made from isn't up to the job, things can get a bit bendy and unreliable.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: r small
Date: 2016-08-05 18:40
Yes, I've owned Selmer basses in the past and they could be twitchy but easily repaired and adjusted.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-08-05 21:29
Hi,
As I have mentioned before, I have both an older Selmer Model 32 (articulated C#/G# and LH Ab/Eb) and a new 925e. I prefer to play the Selmer since the intonation is just a tad better. However, the only place that things are stiff with the 925e is on A5 mainly due to the linkage to another key (I do not have it out right now but I think it is the second register key mechanism). The rest of the instrument seems fine and I can get 3+ octaves with little if any problem.
Yes, the Selmer being about 40 years older than the Ridenour is well broken in and the ergonomics are better. But until I got the Selmer, I was content to play the 925e in a very fine wind ensemble and in the pit with no problems (never needed a Low C BTW). The 925e is my backup now and I do alternate it from time to time; it takes less than an hour or so of scales and arpeggios and I'm "good to go."
The real bottom line for me though is how good a bass I got in the 925e for such a low price. Want to spend a lot more money? Get a Selmer or a Buffet you'll probably never be sorry.
HRL
PS My Bb soprano clarinets are a Yamaha CS Custom (tremendous instrument) and the backup is a 1980s LeBlanc L200. You have probably figured out that value is paramount to me.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-08-05 21:49
I like my Ridenour. Like Hank said, great horn for the money. I did get a Uebel which I play now. I put the Ridenour on the auction website and didn't get a bite. I decided to keep it for outdoor concerts rather than just give it away.
I've used this analogy before on this board: The Ridenour is like a Kia... great car for the money. The Uebel is like a Mercedes. No comparison in the quality, stability, and overall workmanship.
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Author: r small
Date: 2016-08-05 22:54
I was very pleased with the sound of the Ridenour. Lush, full sounding chalumeau, easy free-blowing clarion, etc. But what broke the deal for me was when I talked to a very highly regarded tech about some custom work and just a basic tune-up and he told me he won't even work on Ridenour horns due to the difficulty of repairing and adjusting these instruments. At that point I still had a small window to return the horn for a full refund so I figured I would bail while the bailing was good. Tom Ridenour really knows how to design a clarinet, from an acoustical standpoint at least. I just wish he could offer a better all-around product. I would be willing to pay quite a bit more than two thousand for a Ridenour bass if it had good quality mechanisms and materials.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-08-05 23:07
Maybe in time they'll improve the mechanics and ergonomics.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-08-05 23:16
Mr. Small....
After I bought my 925e, I decided I wanted a low C horn. I talked to Tom Ridenour who said the 925c was a "superior instrument" to the 925e. How? I don't know. I wanted to get one but they didn't have any in stock.
I shopped EXTENSIVELY for both used and new horns. Unless you can find a nice used pro horn, what else can you get for less than 2K?
Check in the for sale section of this site. Looks like there's a very nice vintage Selmer 33 for less than 5K.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-08-05 23:42
On the topic of not working on Ridenour instruments, my tech Eric Satterlee at Meridian Winds (who sold me a used Ridenour 147 a couple of years ago) was interested in seeing my new 925e. He spent about a hour and a half looking it over, made a few minor adjustments, and pronounced it as an excellent value.
I do not know what Wes Rice (you mentioned in your key post that he "won't work on Ridenour instruments " and "inferior metal") used as criteria but Eric Satterlee had no such comment on my new 925e. Eric and his crew at Meridian are very skilled woodwind as well as brass techs so I'd ask that you share some more specific information on Wes Rice's assertions.
For the record, I have no business relationship with Tom Ridenour or his company nor do I receive any consideration for my opinion.
HRL
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Author: r small
Date: 2016-08-06 02:21
Hank--Wes told me that he had had several Ridenour instruments through his shop in the past and had a difficult time making the needed repairs due to the quality (or lack of) the metal. He didn't go into any more detail than that and I didn't press him but I could tell he had a very low opinion of the manufacturing quality and materials of the Ridenour horns. A couple of other techs I know here in the DC area had similar opinions.
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Author: fromsfca
Date: 2016-08-06 06:02
I bought the 925e for a show.
Nice sound, lousy key work, and good intonation.
Hard to find a horn with a pitch pipe for under $5000.
Case is awful....horn got bent just carrying to a gig. Since I rarely need to play bass, it fits my needs. If I needed to play bass more often I would get a used Selmer.
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Author: r small
Date: 2016-08-07 01:16
Chris--I think for Ridenour to upgrade the key work on his horns he will need to file for divorce from the Chinese company that makes them and team up with someone else. Imagine what could come out of a team of Ridenour and Yamaha. Ridenour designs plus Yamaha quality. The instruments would probably cost a good bit more but would still be good value. The Ridenour bass with Yamaha quality key work would be a dream horn. But probably not in the cards. There's such a huge gap between the cost of the Ridenour (about 2K) and the Selmer and Buffet pro horns (10K plus) that a pro quality bass in the 4K-5K range would fill the niche nicely.
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Author: MoonPatrol
Date: 2016-08-07 03:40
The low Eb is the standard for Bass clarinet. How often are you going to see music with another half-step down? I'm not sure why people go for those extras.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-08-07 07:26
The pit orchestra bass clarinet part for 'Anything Goes' has plenty of low Ds and Cs in it. Also works like 'Petrushka' and others call for notes below low Eb.
And it's also useful to have as in some concert bands you can help the tubas that might struggle with a short or a sustained pp low note when it's a doddle to play on bass. Or if the ensemble is a bit light on basses (if they're absent or just incompetent), things can be put down the 8ve to fill out the texture.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2016-08-07 15:02
Chris,
I've seen a few newer band arrangements that give the option for the three lower notes. But there is usually an octave higher note as well. In the past several years, I've probably played a goodly number of the tougher Holst, Grainger, Gould, Hindemith, or similar classic band compositions/arrangements and never had anything lower than an Eb, as I recall.
But if we are splitting hairs here, having the alternate Ab/Eb and even the articulated C#/G# (pretty rare to have this) as on my Model 32 Selmer has been very handy. But I see many other players with the 3 extra low notes and quite often, their instrument is so out of adjustment that they can not play them. Or the key touches are poorly placed on their respective instruments which makes it difficult to develop any facility.
Now if I was an orchestra player or working with a touring show, I'd get a good used Selmer or Buffet low C bass or go the Uebel or Ridenour route.
HRL
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Author: danroul
Date: 2017-02-14 05:41
"Author: r small
Date: 2016-08-05 22:54
I was very pleased with the sound of the Ridenour. Lush, full sounding chalumeau, easy free-blowing clarion, etc. But what broke the deal for me was when I talked to a very highly regarded tech about some custom work and just a basic tune-up and he told me he won't even work on Ridenour horns due to the difficulty of repairing and adjusting these instruments"
I had a very similar experience with my new 925e. I attributed it to the handling since it was delvered from Texas, US to Madrid, Spain. I had the luck my tech
did received it. Hopefully he'll be able to fix the stiffness of throat A, low
G/D key, C#/G# key and throat Bb/register key.
Will update after he works on it should anyone's still interested in this issue.
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The Clarinet Pages
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