 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-10-30 15:39
Hi,
I recently got a "table HS*" mouthpiece. What is the progression of these old Selmer mpcs? I know there are the ones with the HS mark in an oval on the table. The one I have is not this kind, but actually has written "table HS*" right on the table, no ovals in sight. I have read a few things by Clark Fobes and Brad Behn and others, but I never really understood the true Nerd's Guide to older Selmer mpcs. Can anyone give the details?
Have a good Monday!
--Bill.
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-10-30 16:36
Bill,
Don't really know myself, but I won a bid for an instrument off eBay one time and the seller advertised the mouthpiece as you stated above. After the auction ended a gentlemen from San Francisco emailed me and offered me $100 bucks for it. I countered $150 and we agreed on $125 plus shipping, which was more than I won the bid. Kind of like getting the clarinet for free except better.
John
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-10-30 17:17
I've never seen the work "table" actually written on the table of a Selmer mouthpiece. The "table" models, which date from the 50s, 60s and maybe early 70s, had the model name engraved on the table in an oval outline, as you say. I would think anything with the word "table" written on it might be one someone is trying to pass off as old. The newer models have the designation engraved on the back near the bottom, with gold filling.
The table models were pretty good. However, beware models with a shiny lay. As Ralph Morgan will tell you, all table model Selmer mouthpieces were faced by a machine with a tiny diamond that scratched across the rubber at microscopic intervals, producing a lay that was perfect but dull. New Selmer clarinets were shipped in the 50s with an HS* table model mouthpiece that started out excellent, but the American distributor had the lay polished on Croton cloth by unskilled workers, which made it shiny but ruined the mouthpiece.
The earlier Selmers, preceding the table model in I guess the 40s, had a round, gold colored Selmer escutcheon set into the rubber in the back, just above the tenon. If you find one of these in good condition, it's fairly valuable and can often be refaced into an great player.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-10-30 18:38
Well, Ken, I have a bizarre mpc., judging from your contribution. The familiar Selmer logo (the escutcheon you describe, NOT the model name) is indeed set just above the tenon on the back (+). But the table on this mpc. is very shiny (-). The word "table" (with a lowercase "t") is written along with "HS [star]" right on the table.
--Bill.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-30 18:57
Bill, I have seen it, too. FWIW, I was told it was OLDER than the (regular) Oval Models. mw
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-10-31 00:22
I agree with Mark. The one I had did have the wording "table HS*" and NO oval. It was inscribed on the side of the mouthpiece table, the right as you are looking at the lay as I recall. It looked to be very old, at least the 50's I would say if not older.
John
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Author: Brent
Date: 2000-10-31 13:42
I just yesterday took delivery of a used Selmer clarinet from New Zealand. The SN puts it in the early '30s, and it comes with a mouthpiece just as Bill described--the exact inscription 'Table HS*" on the table and the Selmer logo on the back just above the tenon. Of course the mouthpiece may not be original to the instrument so i wouldn't propose to date it that way. The mouthpiece--after cleaning it up with a lemon juice soak--plays very easily but with a very edgy, bright sound (or shall i say, "rich in upper partials"), and wants to squeak. I didn't look critically at the surface of the table and don't have the mpc with me now, so i can't say whether it is polished or not.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-10-31 14:35
You learn something new every day. If the mouthpiece has the inlaid escutcheon on the back, it's definitely old. Probably the ones with "table" on them are even older.
The 1960s HS* with the model engraved on the table in the oval have a shiny flat surface. It's the lay (the curved part) that was cut with a tiny diamond and should look somewhat dull.
I'm not surprised that an old mouthpiece would not play perfectly. At a workshop a few years ago, there was a mouthpiece makers' round table, with Tom Ridenour, Charles Bay, James Pyne, Ralph Morgan and several others. I asked them how long one of their mouthpieces would last in prime condition with daily use, and they agreed that it should be touched up after about a year.
Tom Ridenour said one way to tell extreme wear is to wet the lay, hold the mouthpiece on the bottom of a piece of plate glass and roll it forward along the lay. If you see circular patterns along the lay, or if there are any places where the water doesn't make an even seal, then the mouthpiece is in serious trouble.
There are some excellent mouthpiece restorers. Everett Matson is particularly good with Selmers, as is David Hite.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2000-10-31 21:21
The Selmers which have "table" written on them are older than the oval stamped ones. The ones I've seen have a large bore, and generally seem to turn out well when refaced. Some of them are very wide in the throat area, and these don't have the focus in the sound that the less wide ones do. The pitch on these old Selmers is a bit lower than the oval stamped ones. I've seen the word, "table" marked on mouthpieces with the old (Buffet-like) Selmer insignia.
Generally, they are warped, and need to be refaced in order to get rid of the unpleasant "edge" to the sound.
Chris
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-01 15:42
Thanks for the input! I stripped the rest of the tenon cork off of it and wrapped it with dental floss. It does play precariously, quite "edgy." Funny how NEW it looks. So shiny and black. And my 1995 Ralph Morgan looks like something recovered from the Lusitania.
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