 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-03-03 01:09
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I just got an unmarked full boehm from that auction site (no doubt somebody here was fighting for it too!). There are no manufacturing marks on it, not even a serial number. I'm guessing it is REALLY old. It comes in a one piece case that requires it to stay assembled unless you want it rattling around everywhere. It's wood and I think silver plated keys. The bore is 14.25mm (.553in) at thetop tenon and goes to 22.25mm (.867in) at the bottom tenon.
Sorry about the grainy pics. It was getting dark, my camera likes focusing on the wall or the floor and not the object, and I forgot someone had invented the flash for the camera ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif) .
- Martin
Post Edited (2009-03-03 01:20)
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-03-03 02:02
I'm definitely no expert, but I'd say it's a Conn of some sort. The G#-A key has a single post, which I'm pretty sure was used primarily by Conn prior to 1940, and the rest of the keys, except the "extra" ones of course, look very similar to my old Conn, which is nickel plated, not silver. Are there set-screws to the posts? Because that would confirm my probably unfounded suspicions that it's a Conn.
I'm likely wrong, and no doubt someone else here will be able to shed some more light on this. If it is a Conn, though, I can give you the email of someone who helped me identify mine.
Post Edited (2009-03-03 02:11)
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-03-03 02:29
No it doesn't have any set screws. It could still be a Conn but maybe a later one. I had a Conn alto with set screws and nickel keys before. And it is pretty similar. I would appreciate that email address that you mentioned. It has pinned cracks in the same places too ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif) . Could you maybe compare the top trill key guide (the pointy things)?
- Martin
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-03-03 06:15
Note: the "Sharpen" tool in whatever image program you used doesn't actually work that well, and makes it look worse. Same with the level adjustment.
I agree with the "conn" remark, though, simply because of the shape of the barrel. I know barrels are almost never with the original clarinet, but this one looks like it is, and it just feels..."conn-ey"
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-03 10:04
It looks European to me.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-03-03 17:07
The trill key guide is different from mine; mine's rounded. I could post pictures of mine so you could compare for yourself, if you wanted.
Here's the email address:
wbic@wichitaband.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-03-03 20:07
Without the adjusting screw on the G#/Ab key, and the small UJ hole/pad to "tune in" the fork Eb/Bb. I'd guess at pre-1920, perhaps pre-1900 !. I had both Pedler alto and bass cls with your type of key/linkage for the ?higher? trills. Without identification, its probable that your cl was made to be a "stencil", perhaps by/for another US maker [Penzel Mueller, Pruefer in that time period]. Of course, the making of these "special" Boehm cls , may have been all European [FR, IT], stencilled for the US market, and I have heard [somewhere] that they were preferred by Italian cl'ists, for opera playing?? My first good cl was a P M Full Boehm, 1925 +/-, more "modern" than yours. Others PLEASE HELP !! PM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-03-03 20:16
Oh I believe you about your Conn. I think maybe it could be one.
I think the barrel is original because of the scratches made on it from the case (definitely original).
Is there any way to help identify using bore size? The bore seemed a little small just by looking at it. I forgot what the standard bore size is (standard meaning compared to maybe another Conn or a Penzel M.).
It has a little vent hole underneath the LH sliver key... I currently have a Pedler alto I can look at for reference.
- Martin
Post Edited (2009-03-03 20:36)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-03 23:38
If you get a bore measuring tool inside the bore as far as it can go, that'll be the best measurement rather than measuring at the top or bell tenons.
These are T-shaped tools made in various sizes and have spring loaded ends in the top of the T section which remain at the width of the bore once you lock them in place, then remove it and measure the width with calipers.
To me, the thumbrest and articulated G# key design put it somewhere in the earlier part of the 20th century, maybe between 1920 and 1930 at a rough guess.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2009-03-04 20:55
I'd guess 1920s too, or maybe before the 1890s. Most (but not all) Boehms from at least 1900 to the early 20s have a wrap around register key. Many features of your keywork went out in the mid 1920s, for instance the single post on the left pinky group, no G#-A adjusting screw, flush mounted thumb rest and so on. Most clarinets of that vintage have three posts for the G#-A keys, so that wouldn't be conclusive for mfg. identification. What may be conclusive is the unusual arm connecting the right and left long G#-D# keys. Most clarinets with a left side lever lift the pad directly rather than through an arm back to the right side key. Another distinctive feature is the articulated C#-G# mechanism.
In the US, imports after the 1870s had to be marked with the country of origin. If there is no "Made in...." marking (which can be VERY faint), it could be from before then, it could be American (a Penzel or Pruefer for instance) or it could have been brought in by an individual.
Interesting insrtument. Let us know how it plays.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-04 21:00
The LH Ab/Eb linkage arm is like that seen on old Selmer full Boehms, but the shape of the bend in it with such definition instead of the usual smooth S-curve does look a bit Germanic.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-03-05 04:27
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This clarinet plays so well. The C#/G# takes a little getting used to though. It's in such an awkward spot because it's so close and I have long fingers. There are also two massive cracks that I should probably have fixed.
The bigger crack goes straight through the second to the top trill key tone hole. It goes through to the bore but is only hairline inside. The other crack is exterior only. How much would it cost to fix both?
- Martin
Post Edited (2009-03-05 04:40)
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-03-20 21:37
I still haven't found any extra information on this clarinet. Are there any new ideas on this one? I'm also still wondering about the cracks I have in it and if they should be fixed or not. I'm thinking that they should but I don't know if I should have it fixed or just get rid of it as fast as I can.
- Martin
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-03-20 23:05
Martin,
The Bb clarinet in my first set of old Selmers had split right through to the bore between the trill toneholes not long after I started playing it. This was filled (with superglue) and pinned back in 1988 and hasn't moved since, so not all cracks are terminal.
The clarinets I mentioned aren't in the following photo, but this is still relative.
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/Keywork/FB/01.jpg
The Selmer on the far left (which is my everyday clarinet) has a crack running down the back of the lower joint between the socket ring and terminating in a blind hole I drilled at the end which is under the thumbrest, and I pinned that as well.
The Buffet in the middle has two opposing cracks in the top joint - one running from the top tenon to the thumb tube and the other running down the front from the tenon to the throat A tonehole, and this one goes through to the bore. And it still plays surprisingly well considering it has split and also with the poor condition of the pads.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-03-20 23:15)
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Author: asabene
Date: 2009-03-21 22:37
The one that goes through the entire clarinet does not sound too good... I would be worried about that one.
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Author: blazian
Date: 2009-03-22 02:15
Well currently the clarinet plays well. I wonder if it will get bigger and start causing problems?
- Martin
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