 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-02-09 18:49
This has probably been discussed many, many times before, but I need advice on mouthpieces. I've been having some tuning issues, and people have said that a different mouthpiece would benefit me greatly. However, never having bought a mouthpiece, I know nothing about what's out there, how to test them, price ranges, facings, etc. Could someone give me a good summary, I guess, of what I should know when looking for mouthpieces?
Thanks in advance.
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-02-09 21:57
Vandorens are generally good quality mpcs and they have a large range of different tip opening/facing lengths etc. Check their website for general info on sizing and remember that closer tip means harder reed, generally. Another good bet would be the custom mpc makers on the board, such as Ben Redwine who can create one that will be a perfect fit for your playing style. I personally love my Gigliotti and think they are always worth a try. Then there are the Fobes mpcs which from what I have seen are excellent quality as well. I'd say get a couple Vandorens (5RV, M13, M15, M30 etc.) a couple of the Gigliottis, some Fobes, and maybe a few others you find and have a party. It's such a wonderful thing trying out new mouthpieces. Good luck in the search, I hope this helps!
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-02-09 22:41
Curinfinwe,
What mouthpiece are you using now? Which reeds? Is your clarinet in good shape? Could you be in need of a new barrel, instead?
Do you have a teacher to advise you?
Could you explain the tuning problems in a bit more detail?
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-02-10 00:55
I'm using Vandoren 56 2.5 reeds, and a Sumner Acousticut 3 mouthpiece. My clarinet's a re-1940 Conn, which was repadded and completely gone over by Marius Kowalski, who is the expert in my area. It's in excellent condition, and is about the same quality as an E11 or E12, according to him.
My barrel is far too short, as it's 61 mm and is always pulled out to compensate. I am planning on getting a new barrel sometime in the near future, but that's a bit tricky as the upper tenon is larger than usual on my clarinet. Marius thought that a new barrel AND a new mouthpiece would make a world of difference.
I do have a teacher, and she's going to see about finding some mouthpieces to try, but she's not really an expert on equipment.
For tuning, I'm quite sharp on high G, A and B, an also to a lesser extent in the notes down the twelfth.
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2009-02-10 01:05
I think the sharpness is going to be due mostly to the barrel. For comparison, a standard barrel length is 66mm. Even a 65 makes me wicked sharp up top.
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-02-10 01:06
Thanks. Great information. My first thought is to try one thing at a time. Perhaps experiment with different barrels first to see if that solves or eases the problem.
I had a tuning problem with my clarinet (about 50 years old), which was solved with an overhaul and a new barrel. But first I had to have the top tenon rebuilt because it would not accommodate other barrels.
I'm still using the mouthpiece I had.
Why not play test a few barrels with your old mouthpiece before you lay out more money for a new one?
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2009-02-10 01:08
Barrels with a reverse cone taper can make the left hand clarion notes flatter (the notes you are referring to, I believe) and make twelfths much closer.
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-02-12 21:37
Thanks for the advice; I'll see if I can find some barrels to give a test.
In the meantime, though, my friend has given me some mouthpieces to try that she found lying around her house. They're old, however, and I can't find much information on them. The first is a Vandoren 3V, which is in a little rougher condition than the second, a Meyer Bros. New York 4M. The first is obviously rubber, but I'm not so sure about the second one. I haven't tried them yet, as they had that white crusty stuff in them and they're soaking in lemon juice right now. Does anyone know anything about these?
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-02-12 22:24
The 3V vandoren is (from what I have found) a close tip mouthpiece with a medium long facing. It would probably require at least a strength 3 reed. If it is chipped or dirty beyond cleaning it wouldn't be worth your time.
The Meyer Bros is going to be pretty open, basically the opposite end of the spectrum from the 3v. These are made mainly for Jazz or doublers, and will probably be a frustrating experience to play in tune and with a stable sound.
Your best bet of the two would probably be the vandoren, if it isn't chipped up or warped.
My advice would be to go to your local music store and try the new vandorens they have there. Canadian music shops (in quebec anyway) seem to be well stocked on mouthpieces and will have several of each model. There are many models, and you should be able to find something that suits you. If you find some that say "13 SERIES" they will be pitched lower, 440, and may help your tuning issues.
Good luck!
P.S. A 61mm barrel is VERY short, as mentioned above. No matter what you do, you'll probably have to get at least a 65 to have a chance at playing in tune.
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-02-12 23:22
Thanks! I would love to go to a music store and try a bunch of stuff out, but unfortunately the two music store in the city don't stock anything except extremely basic plastic student mouthpieces. Grr.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-02-12 23:37
If you are in the Halifax area, why not check with John Weir? I don't know if he only sells mouthpieces when you also get a clarinet, but it never hurts to ask. He was supplying decent mouthpieces with his instruments, I think they were the Gennusa mouthpieces from Ben Redwine. Don't know if that's still the case. Here's his info:http://www.taplinweir.com/contacts.php
Jeff
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2009-02-13 03:17
JJAlbrecht wrote:
> If you are in the Halifax area, why not check with John Weir?
> I don't know if he only sells mouthpieces when you also get a
> clarinet, but it never hurts to ask. He was supplying decent
> mouthpieces with his instruments, I think they were the Gennusa
> mouthpieces from Ben Redwine. D
Not only could John and Patti give some solid mouthpiece advice, they'd probably be able to set the OP up with a really nice custom barrel that would work well on his horn.
I have an Orsi & Weir Cocobolo barrel on my current clarinet.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: MBrad
Date: 2009-02-13 04:08
To Curfinwe:
I've been having a lot of luck on a Vandoren M30 using either 56 Rue Lepic or V12 2.5s or 3s. I very strongly recommend it (or the M15s), at least to try out. I personally find them the most "well-rounded" Vandoren mouthpieces on the market right now. People have recommended countless brands to me over the years (as I just did), but when I actually sat down to try them I found it helped to have some sort of method to aid my search.
At some point, you may find yourself with a large number of exquisite mouthpiece laying on a table in front of you. If you don't mind, I'll share with you what I've found to be the best way to sort through them--a very simple play-test. There's an added bonus that you can use a similar play-test to try different barrels. I'm sure others on the board will have some amendments/additions since we're each looking for different things from our equipment. Anyway, before you go in make sure you're have a good reed that you're comfortable with...
1) Check the pitch! If it lowers the pitch on the throat tones too much, forget it. If you can't play the clarinet in tune with itself, forget it--no questions. If your barrel is too short, ask for one or two longer ones *just* to check the mouthpieces' pitch.
2) Do an F-major scale (or G, or whatever you like) through two octaves at a slow tempo, but play each note short, accented, and fortissimo. It's a nice way to see if the mouthpiece "chokes" or not. If you can't get each notes to speak it's probably too choky. If you get a ringing sound on each staccato note, and each speaks easily throughout all registers, it means that the mouthpiece can take a bit of "push" without distorting the sound or causing it to spread too much.
3) See how evenly it is able to cross into the altissimo register. Play a C (2 ledger lines above the staff) at piano or mezzo-piano, and try slurring to the C# above (you can try other altissimo notes, too). If it keeps clamming up when you change registers you might have problems with clarity (or just getting the notes to speak) in the high register. Try popping out a few extreme high A's or C's to see if it "gives up" the high register easily or not. Soft attacks through the clarion register will also tell you something...if you have to struggle to get soft attacks to speak something isn't working.
After those simple steps I'd recommend playing through a couple passages that typically show off weaknesses in equipment and technique. *My* favorites are a little bit of the Mendelssohn Midsummer Night's Dream excerpt (though anything with a lot of short, quiet staccato will probably do) and the excerpt from Pines of Rome (since there are a number of extreme register changes). Throw in something that you've been working on a lot since it makes it easier to compare with whatever mouthpiece you're using right now. Don't noodle too much if you have 30 mouthpieces to look at...there's plenty of time for that later.
If you go through those steps you'll likely narrow down your choices to just a few rather than many. At that point I usually repeat steps 1-3 a few times. As more mouthpieces are ruled out I'll increase the noodling spent on each, and after a few repetitions, there's usually *one* mouthpiece that I start falling in love with--with the added bonus that I know it isn't prone to choking, stuffiness, uneven-ness, and intonation problems. After you've picked your favorite, maybe try some of the ones that you first ruled-out, just to see the difference.
Post Edited (2009-02-13 04:20)
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Author: George Stalle
Date: 2009-02-13 15:52
How are the new Pyne mouthpieces regarded these days? I know they are pricey.
[ edited - GBK ]
George Stalle
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-02-13 18:57
I've spoken with John, and I'm going to go up this summer or hopefully this spring if I'm lucky to get a barrel fitted. Unfortunately I have to rely on my parents to undertake the 2.5 hour drive on icy highways there and back, so they won't make the trip in the winter. I haven't got my full driver's license yet.
So, is the consensus that I should stave off mouthpiece shopping until I get a new barrel?
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-02-13 19:04
Glad you're going to look at barrels. I know it might be frustrating to wait until spring to acquire a new mouthpiece, but that would seem to be a reasonable approach.
If you're antsy, though, and want to investigate new mouthpieces beforehand, you can always play-test two or three at a time from, say, Woodwind & Brasswind. Check the Web site. They have a liberal testing policy, and you can send back what you don't like. There's a modest fee for cleaning and restocking.
Just don't expect the tuning to be perfect.
Post Edited (2009-02-13 19:09)
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Author: ewqasd
Date: 2009-02-14 02:37
i really like Vandoren B45 tone
i use gennusa excellente
maybe go to a music store and try a bunch.
such as Vandoren M15(maybe lyre), Vandoren M13(maybe lyre), Lomax...etc
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-02-14 18:21
Pyne mouthpieces have always had strong proponents and strong detractors. You really need to try one yourself to know if you're comfortable with the sound concept they're designed to support. Pyne's craftsmanship is well recognized.
Karl
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