 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-18 00:52
The finalists were:
Hawley
Leigh
Olli Leppäniemi
Levy
Mondie
Smith
Williamson
Yeh
Leppaniemi was the only one of the 8 screened finalist candidates to receive at least a "split" vote (5 committee votes). He was asked, at the committee's option, to be heard a second time. The "split" vote of the committee remained unchanged upon a second hearing. The audition process will start completely over again.
(info from the "Clarinet Jobs" group on Facebook)
...GBK
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Author: Ryan K
Date: 2009-01-18 02:54
Not even the best clarinetists in the industry can get jobs. Now THATS competitive. *snickers*
Ryan Karr
Dickinson College
Carlisle, PA
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Author: brycon
Date: 2009-01-18 04:00
They're just waiting for me to graduate- haha. Huge congrats for everyone making it to the finals and playing what I'm sure was a brilliant audition.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2009-01-18 06:07
I'm not sure if it's "impossibly high" or just plain stupid.
I choose the latter. This is why I have so little respect for the professional auditioning process. Keep auditioning until you get who you want -- it seems like it's hardly ever based on raw talent. Not that there's a huge amount that separates the best of the best from each other. Or maybe there is and my ear's just not that good.
Just do it the way movies do for big roles often -- just ask the person you want.
I could go on for hours about this so will truncate my comments here.
Post Edited (2009-01-18 06:07)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-01-18 11:38
Must be Cleveland....wrong. Must be Chicago....Yeh.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2009-01-18 15:03
It's not that their standards are so high, it's the smugness and complacencey of the auditioning jury. Their egoism leads them to think that by pretending to so called high standards it makes them look good since they've already met these standards. Yeah, right.
It's impossilble to believe that any one of the listed finalists would not be a world class principle for the CSO.
The motto of the audtioning jury must be Sempre Fi, (we're all aboard, pull the ladder up!)
Clarinet Redux
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Author: dgclarinet
Date: 2009-01-18 15:51
I thought this about the NYPhil audtion, and I think it about the CSO now. I hope nobody auditions a third time. They can take some college kid who's never played anywhere and pay them less (happened with a principal ww job in Atlanta, so I know it happens). Shame on these people and their way over-inflated egos. And I'm with clarinetist04...if Morales is the only guy they'll hire...just let them keep offering him more money til he can't refuse. This auditoning for nothing is just ridiculous.
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-01-18 17:12
When I was in Chicago years ago, they were auditioning the principal oboe. IIRC, they had a few auditions for that spot too. They finally settled on Alex Kline. He was amazing. Simply amazing to hear. So maybe there is something to this madness. Sure any of those guys could do the job, but are they amazing? I personally prefer the sound of some of those guys in the finals over Morales, but I have to say there is something amazing about Morales's playing. It might be the closest thing to technical perfection there is. So maybe until someone else comes along that has that kind of perfection, they will just keep looking.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-01-18 18:00
The CSO should have invited me to audition. My playing might have scared them into hiring all of the above.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-18 18:50
This is total speculation on my part, but I think they may be looking for somebody with a greater than average amount of "spunk" (for lack of a better term) to be principal. Leppäniemi plays a mean Nielsen, apparently.
In other words, in the final rounds of an audition like this I think it isn't so much about skill, it's about style. I haven't heard all of these finalists play individually before, but I have heard a little bit of Todd Levy's playing, so I'll use him as an example. His playing is technically superb, but I find his playing a bit too subdued for my taste (other people who like that sort of style are welcome to disagree with me--that's just my opinion, which isn't worth much). The auditions committee of the CSO might have felt the same way.
I think it's quite possible that who they *really* want from a musical/stylistic standpoint actually got eliminated because they had a bad day and made a technical slip or two during round one or round two. The somewhat unfortunate thing about the way these auditions work is that the because of the way applicants are eliminated, the process seems (almost necessarily) to place an undue emphasis on technical perfection in the early stages of the audition, at the expense of interpretive skill and musicality. Principal of the CSO is vastly different "gig" than a spot in the annual All-Region Band (where everyone gets another chance next year), yet the audition process is surprisngly similar. The NYPO and CSO audition committees are perhaps aware of this.
In fact, that is--as I understand it--the reason why orchestras often invite some players to participate in the final rounds directly (bypassing the normal audition process). There are some players who are known a priori to be clearly skilled enough to hold the position, but who might otherwise be eliminated from the preliminary screen if they had a bad day. To keep this from happening (and to save them from embarassment), they invite them to the final rounds directly.
In short, the guy (or gal) who is the best for the job and who they want playing for the next however-many years may not have been the one who had the best performance, technically speaking, on the day(s) of the preliminary audition round(s). Nobody's perfect (even Morales--although as David has said, a bad day for him is a good day for everyone else). We all have our good days and bad days, and the guy who is the best candidate overall may not be the best at one audition piece or another. We all know it's more complicated than that. Since they're going to have to live with whomever they pick for a really long time (potentially), we really shouldn't fault the CSO for taking their time.
I don't think they are looking for someone who doesn't exist, or even that they are looking for Morales (he turned them down last time, remember?). I think the audition committee realizes that the audition process necessarily eliminates highly qualified applicants and is highly likely to have eliminated the most qualified person for the job. In fact, they may have actually found the qualities they are looking for in one of the eliminated applicants, realized that this is what happened, and decided to restart the audition process to give this person a second chance to get everything right technically. You never know....
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-01-18 19:19
mrn,
I like your reasoning but usually players that have auditioned before can not apply again. I seem to remember this is part of the US system. Could be wrong though.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2009-01-18 19:34
An orchestra in that level should prepare the next row 5 years befor the player retires. They should have had 3 young players who sit in the orchestra and learn the local style . Now they look around the world for something that should have been there.
Sarah
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Author: Blake Arrington
Date: 2009-01-18 20:24
In response to Johnny Galaga's question:
CSO is the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
The first names are:
Richie Hawley
Ashley Ragle Leigh
Olli Leppäniemi
Todd Levy
Eugene Mondie
Greg Smith
Steve Williamson
John Bruce Yeh
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-01-18 20:56
Sarah Elbaz wrote:
> An orchestra in that level should prepare the next row 5 years
> befor the player retires. They should have had 3 young players
> who sit in the orchestra and learn the local style . Now they
> look around the world for something that should have been
> there.
You think Yeh & Smith don't know the style yet????
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Author: fedup
Date: 2009-01-18 23:45
I've been reading this board for a long time, but this is my first post.
Regarding the argument made by mrn that maybe the CSO was looking for someone with some "spunk", and only the technically perfect made it out of the prelims . . . . . .
This screened final was more of the same from prelims - required excerpts were asked for and played by the candidates. If Olli plays a mean Nielsen, who would have known at this point in the audition? According to your diagnosis of the audition process, (that the technically supurb come out of the prelims), then it would stand to reason that only the technically supurb would have come out of this round as well since it was more of the same.
Are you friends with Olli? Why comment only on Todd Levy? It's interesting that you have only heard a "little bit of his playing" and yet you are able to so completely categorize him. If you had heard more than a "little bit" maybe you would find that he is not anything like you described. You don't have to take my word for it, go to his website and read the hundreds of reviews by professionals that will disagree with you.
And if they truly were looking for some "spunk," why not advance the top picks from the screened finals to the unscreened finals where they could finally get to show what they have as musicians. What would the CSO have to lose, they still could decline to extend an offer to anyone.
In regards to the CSO, I agree with the others here who have posted comments regarding the egos of the people involved. Shame on the CSO. They have no regard for the countless professionals they have now heard to fill this vacancy, and the time and committment these people have made to prepare for what turns out to be a completely bogus audition. They have heard just about every high profile professional in the US, and no one seems to be good enough to make it to the finals, let alone play with them. PLEASE. As someone stated before, it will serve them right if they can't get anyone with any reputation to consider this job now.
And by the way, I have been a life long ticket holder and donor to the CSO. I'm done.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-18 23:58
I will only add what someone very close to the audition process told me:
"...Many orchestras hold numerous auditions before someone surfaces as the obvious person to engage. This process is not unusual at all. What would be unusual is if such an important vacancy were filled the first or even second time around..."
...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-01-19 00:20
Did that ever (ever??) happen in the past - past being 20 or more years ago.
I'm thinking not. They could have at least offered the "best" player that day a temporary position leading to tenure like Sam got when he won the Phila. Principal job after Burt Hara left.
I feel bad for both Yeh and Smith. Either one of them would do a great job and already have proven themselves many times over with that Orchestra.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2009-01-19 00:36
I think it is important to note that playing in Symphony Center is quite a challenge. You get almost no feed back from the hall unless you are playing forte and that feed back is delayed. In an orchestral situation, it is very hard to hear everyone else on stage. From the Clarinet area, many parts of the stage are like black holes. If someone is not familiar with playing in that hall, it can mess with you.
This is not to imply that these finalists don't know how to play in different halls, most of them have played all over the world. But you combine the acoustic with a -17 degree morning on Friday and I would not be surprised if someone was off their game a bit.
As far as what mrn said, I don't think the issue is "spunk" or style. Greg Smith and John Yeh know exactly what to do with phrasing, articulation, dynamics, etc. I think it has more to do with tonal concept. John Yeh sounds amazing in person and in the orchestra on his M13 lyre and he switched to a Backun mouthpiece over the summer. I can only guess that he did this to change his tone in some way so that it might be more appealing to the CSO for the principal position. I also noticed that Greg Smith came out with a new mouthpiece after the audition last year. This is just a guess and I don't mean to imply anything about Mr. Smith or Yeh.
Old Geezers comment about smugness is way off as usual. The CSO just had an audition for second Oboe and hired someone. Picking a principal is a little different. I'm not saying the CSO is right in their not picking a winner but it is what it is.
Cigleris Said:
"I like your reasoning but usually players that have auditioned before can not apply again. I seem to remember this is part of the US system. Could be wrong though."
This is not true here in the US. One of the finalists, Eugene Mondie, was a finalist last year after making it through all of the rounds and he did the same again this year. I know of many players in various orchestras here in the US that auditioned 2 or 3 times before getting the gig.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2009-01-19 00:55
It really is funny to listen to the conjecture on here about this. I think the process has been a joke, but I won't go further than that by trying to guess what the committee feels and thinks. Not a single poster on this thread has any real clue, no matter if you're defending the process or expressing your outrage.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-19 01:42
fedup wrote:
<<Are you friends with Olli?>>
Nope. Never seen or spoken to him in my life.
<<Why comment only on Todd Levy?>>
Because he's the only one on that list whom I've heard play as a soloist.
<<It's interesting that you have only heard a "little bit of his playing" and yet you are able to so completely categorize him.>>
I didn't "completely categorize" him. I didn't even say he was bad--on the contrary, he's very good at what he does--better than I would do from a technical standpoint, that's for certain! I just said that I thought what I had heard him play (which was music I had played myself and was quite familiar with) sounded a bit subdued for my taste--I just have different taste than he does. So what?
By the way, there are some folks out there who *really like* the "subdued" style and who might actually take my remarks as a compliment. The same people might call my playing "aggressive," which is fine with me. Opinions like these are all relative to one's own point of view and personal tastes.
<<If you had heard more than a "little bit" maybe you would find that he is not anything like you described.>>
Maybe that's what the CSO auditions committee needs to hear! They only heard him play "a little bit," too, a decided to reject him for the job. Let me make this clear: I wasn't trying to knock the guy; I was just trying to speculate as to what the auditions committee was looking for and if Levy wasn't "it," then why. (And I at least thought I was being polite about it)
I don't know about you, but when I don't succeed at getting someone to decide things my way (not just in music), I try to figure out what they were looking for so that next time I can do better. Seems like a sensible thing to do, to me (even if, for me, it's kind of an academic exercise, since I'll probably never audition for a job like that, anyway).
<<You don't have to take my word for it, go to his website and read the hundreds of reviews by professionals that will disagree with you.>>
In fact, I *have* been to his website. But just because he has hundreds of positive reviews, doesn't mean I am wrong to form my own opinion about what I've heard of his playing. My opinion doesn't mean anything, anyway. (And I even mentioned in my post that I thought there would be people who disagreed with me--so why is it so important to you that I agree with everyone else?)
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2009-01-19 01:55
JJ wrote:
"It really is funny to listen to the conjecture on here about this. I think the process has been a joke...."
Did you take part in the process JJ? If you didn't then I hardly see how you can comment on it. Have you played in the hall? Have you heard the cso live in the hall? Did you hear all of the auditions? Just because someone sounds amazing in their orchestra like Richie Hawley for example, does not mean that he sounded amazing in that hall on Friday. Is that a knock on Richie? No. I love Richie's playing but maybe he didn't show what he is in the best way possible on Friday. For Example.
I am in no way trying to comment on the process. I only spoke about the things I know. I have performed in the hall at least 12 times (not with the CSO) and you really have to belt stuff out to project well in there. That hall can make your sound really small. I know John Yeh switched mouthpieces and I know it was -17 on Friday. Beyond that, I have no clue waht is going on with the audition.
"Not a single poster on this thread has any real clue, no matter if you're defending the process or expressing your outrage."
That includes you!
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2009-01-19 02:04
My point was just that we can all sit here and conjecture, but nobody really has any clue. I fully admit I don't have the answer here, and frankly, neither does anyone else. I wasn't taking issue with anything you said, personally. I was commenting on everyone's responses. Anyone can throw out a reason they think it turned out the way it did, but that doesn't mean they're legitimate. To come up with all these reasons and explanations can be entertaining, but at the end of the day it's all conjecture. There's no arguing that.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-01-19 02:32
How about this for an opinion:
The people on the audition committee are individuals of high personal and artistic caliber and are conscientiously looking for the the clarinetist who best matches the character of the Chicago Symphony.
It is very possible that neither politics nor egos are in play here.
I have been on audition committees before and it is usually nothing but hard work and making agonizing choices.
Since no one posting here is on the committee, or is privy to their deliberations, why don't we give them the benefit of the doubt?
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: vin
Date: 2009-01-19 02:58
Well said, Walter. I would add that no one on any audition committee I've served on likes spending hours and hours listening to people and not hiring anyone. All you know is if you hear something that knocks you out. If you're not so moved, what else can you do?
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-19 04:01
Couldn't have said it better myself, Walter!
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-19 04:22
Ryan25 wrote:
<<As far as what mrn said, I don't think the issue is "spunk" or style. Greg Smith and John Yeh know exactly what to do with phrasing, articulation, dynamics, etc. I think it has more to do with tonal concept. John Yeh sounds amazing in person and in the orchestra on his M13 lyre and he switched to a Backun mouthpiece over the summer. I can only guess that he did this to change his tone in some way so that it might be more appealing to the CSO for the principal position. I also noticed that Greg Smith came out with a new mouthpiece after the audition last year. This is just a guess and I don't mean to imply anything about Mr. Smith or Yeh.>>
Interesting....So how do you think they (or anyone else, for that matter) might decide to change their sound to be more appealing as a principal player (as opposed to 2nd or assoc. principal)?
<<But you combine the acoustic with a -17 degree morning on Friday and I would not be surprised if someone was off their game a bit.>>
You know, the amusing thing about this theory is that the guy who got the most votes is Finnish (and currently plays in an orchestra in Norway). Presumably he's much more used to cold weather than we Americans are. 
J. J. wrote:
<<To come up with all these reasons and explanations can be entertaining, but at the end of the day it's all conjecture. There's no arguing that.>>
It's conjecture, but put enough people together in a room and let them conjecture a while and someone just might learn something. It won't ever give a definitive answer about the auditions process, but it might be enlightening in other ways. For instance, I'm probably about to learn something about what some orchestras (or at least the CSO) might be looking for as far as tone goes in a principal clarinetist. It intrigues me that the sitting 2nd chair and assoc. principal of an orchestra (who clearly already "fit in" with the orchestra) might actually try to change their tonal character when auditioning to move up a chair or two. Even if that's not what Smith and Yeh are doing, just the idea of doing that is interesting to me and perhaps a topic worthy of discussion in and of itself.
As long as everybody recognizes that they're just conjecturing (and I think most, if not all of us, do here), I see no harm in it.
Post Edited (2009-01-19 05:22)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-01-19 11:20
How does this work, exactly? Does the winner get tenure, or something? - in which case I guess it's perhaps more easily understandable.
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Author: dgclarinet
Date: 2009-01-19 12:07
mrn wrote: "I think it's quite possible that who they *really* want from a musical/stylistic standpoint actually got eliminated because they had a bad day and made a technical slip or two during round one or round two."
If this is true, isn't the whole audition process that orchestras use a total failure? How can the "best" player lose in the first round of a three round audition? And if orchestras have to have multiple auditions just hoping that this "amazing" player with "spunk" doesn't miss a note on Daphnis, isn't there something wrong?
I'm not sure which method is better...this multiple audtion mess, or the method from the old days...calling Bonade and asking him who the best player is.
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2009-01-19 14:07
JJ wrote:
"My point was just that we can all sit here and conjecture, but nobody really has any clue. I fully admit I don't have the answer here, and frankly, neither does anyone else. I wasn't taking issue with anything you said, personally. I was commenting on everyone's responses. Anyone can throw out a reason they think it turned out the way it did, but that doesn't mean they're legitimate. To come up with all these reasons and explanations can be entertaining, but at the end of the day it's all conjecture. There's no arguing that."
Very true and I completely agree with you. I tried to be very careful in my post because I did not want to speculate since I don't know anything about the audition more than any of the rest of us know.
mrn wrote:
"Interesting....So how do you think they (or anyone else, for that matter) might decide to change their sound to be more appealing as a principal player (as opposed to 2nd or assoc. principal)?"
I really don't know if that is what Mr. Yeh is doing and I think it is dangerous on my part to imply that and I hope I didn't. All I know is he switched mouthpieces. Maybe it was nothing more than a response issue. I have no idea. Same for Mr. Smith.
"You know, the amusing thing about this theory is that the guy who got the most votes is Finnish (and currently plays in an orchestra in Norway). Presumably he's much more used to cold weather than we Americans are."
Yeah, but he is on sabbatical and has been in L.A. studying with Yehudda Gilad. So he left the 80 degree paradise and came here which is almost a 100 degree temp. swing. Most likely the weather had no effect on the players. I was just throwing it out there.
I think Walter made very good points in his post. Very well said. Congrats to everyone who played on Friday and good luck in the future. It's really an accomplishment to have advanced or been invited.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-01-19 14:42
And after all is said and done, any one of the finalists listed above would sound "just fine" to the average CSO patron.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-19 15:11
dgclarinet wrote:
<<If this is true, isn't the whole audition process that orchestras use a total failure? How can the "best" player lose in the first round of a three round audition?>>
They just don't happen to be at their best that day and make a minor slip up somewhere, or maybe there's a problem with their instrument. Could even be nerves (it is an audition, not a performance, after all). It could happen to anybody. Even the "right person" for the job could have a bad day and/or his/her performance might not have been representative of the player's true strengths.
The problem is that when you have an open, screened audition, you can't tell if the person messed up because of lack of skill or because they had an off day. Because the jury is forced to make agonizing choices to reduce the pool of applicants down to something manageable, they may be placed in a position where they have to assume the former (lack of skill), rather than the latter (off day).
I just don't think they'd be doing this audition again if they weren't reasonably confident they could find somebody they like next time. Otherwise, why go to all the trouble.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2009-01-19 15:15
A few years ago I viewed a video recording of the entire auditioning process for a trumpet postion with the CSO.
Their self centered pretentiousness, egoism, and holier that thou attitude was revolting. This even though they knew they were being video taped. It was a sorry spectacle...but at least they picked somone.
I've been on four courtroom juries and they are a nightmare, everyone thinks they're suddenly the reincarnation of Oliver Wendel Holmes! Maybe being on a jury brings out the worst in people.
I think it would be interesting if members of the audition group got behind the screen and reauditoned for their job...think they'd make the first cut?
Clarinet Redux
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Author: William
Date: 2009-01-19 15:37
"............you can't tell if the person messed up because of lack of skill or because they had an off day"
Isn't this *always* a problem--even in the NFL.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-19 16:01
Old Geezer wrote:
<<A few years ago I viewed a video recording of the entire auditioning process for a trumpet postion with the CSO.>>
Where did you see that? I think that would be kind of interesting to watch.
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2009-01-19 16:42
David,
It has happened before. Like I said with the oboe audition. Michael Henoch was the acting principal while the CSO held the auditions. I am pretty sure they had at least two different auditions, maybe more. Surely someone on here knows. It is also possible, probable really, that Michael Henoch auditioned for the principal spot. He was not chosen. I love his playing by the way. During his run as principal, he recorded the Brahms symphonies with Baremboim; his playing is terrific.
Anyway, my point is that this has happened before.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-01-19 18:37
Perhaps slightly off-topic, perhaps not... I think there are a few things about how orchestras tend to be set up and hold auditions that make for a lot more crazy than is necessary...
- There are designated principal players. I could understand giving someone second all the time if they can't handle the first parts. I could understand keeping the seats the same through a concert or a season for consistency. However, I think it would behoove everyone involved if there were not designated principal seats that remained that way for decades. For an orchestra like Chicago, anyone getting the job would be more than capable of playing any part... mix things up a bit! If someone has such an ego that they won't play second, I wouldn't want them in my orchestra.
- There's this notion of wanting the person who performs absolutely the best on audition day on audition rep. While it's generally seen as "fair", I see it as a rather poor way of determining who the best player is for the group. I've known people who don't audition well and are fantastic ensemble players, and people who audition great and can't play with a group to save their life. It would be an expensive way to go about things, but I think it would be great if at least the final round were to include playing with other people (or, in my perfect world, have some disaster-recovery sessions). That, and I consider orchestral excerpts to be a somewhat poor measure of how someone will play in an orchestra.
- It seems to be a bit primadonna-based. Everyone is looking for THE PERSON WHO PLAYS ABSOLUTELY THE BEST UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. They want all the players to all be the absolute best in the field, which is an admirable goal. However, in my experience, a good conductor (the drought of those is another topic altogether) can make great music with just about any competent musician, and it's often the #2 or 3 player who will really rise to the occasion if given the chance, becoming a better player and better fit with the ensemble than the #1 ever would be. The best group I've played in was a quintet made up of all the second chair wind players of an ensemble after the quintet of first-chair players had a falling out and quit simultaneously. None of us had baggage, so we could focus on making music.
- The ultimate-uber-long-time-tenure system in many places makes people far more cautious about who they allow in. There's a sense of "the new guy may be around 50 years, let's get the right one!" If all new hires were subject to a 1-year trial period, followed by say 5 years of tenure, at which time another audition can be held with no hard feelings, I think orchestras would be far more willing to give a greater variety of people a chance. They'd also have a better time if they had 4 players that cycled through the parts rather than declaring one principal, essentially for life, then worrying about buyer's remorse if a better player comes along but the principal spot is filled.
Many of my favorite recordings may not have note-perfect playing by the individuals in the orchestra, but have an intense sense of ensemble and musicality. Correspondingly, there are a lot of technically perfect performances that put me to sleep.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2009-01-19 19:14
The audition process is what it is. But it is certainly not the entire process of admission into an orchestra such as the CSO.
CSO will seek a player they have in mind (I think they can invite a few people straight to unscreened finals) and have a listen to the field, through the prelim rounds.
Orchestra of this caliber also often invite players they are interested in to play principal for a week or so before the audition to see how they fit in.
If the audition has a winner, that person gets a trial period and can be dismissed, this has happened in the past.
Although I have no insider information, I suspect that the gap between showing up at an audition and getting tenure, is filled *at least* as much with networking, reputation and personality as it is with performance at the audition.
In the case of the CSO, we don't really know what they want. They only offered the job to Morales, have said no twice to Yeh, Smith and Mondie, and have discarded principals or associate principals of St Louis, Met (actually both principals), Cincinnatti.
At this level, I personally cannot tell these players apart in an orchestral recording, unless they are in the program notes. So I am dumbfounded, when I try to figure out what it is that the CSO wants.
Anyway, not to worry someone will get hired and we will all get to enjoy his/her playing. I just feel bad for whoever is taking these auditions...
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2009-01-19 23:19
This just in: The next audition will be held out on Lake Michigan. Anyone who can play the clarinet while walking on water gets the job. Tiebreaker will be raising the dead.
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2009-01-19 23:28
I don't understand what the big deal is here. The Chicago Symphony Orchestra is one of the top orchestras in the world. This is an audition for one of the most important positions in that orchestra - the winner will likely be there for decades. I can't blame them for setting the standard incredibly high.
This standard is not impossibly high, however. Ricardo Morales did win the first audition and was offered the job, but then declined. As fine as all of the players are who made finals this time, the committee decided that no one met the standard that only Morales met the first time. It is their right to decide what those standards are, not ours.
Good luck to everyone who tries out next time.
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Author: ozlock
Date: 2009-01-20 02:57
Fascinating posts. What amazes me is how the writers know so much about the candidates for the CSO clarinet principal. It is incredible that there are such strong opinions when it seems unlikely that all or most of them could have been heard live.
But most significant is why CSO bothers having auditions now. Muti will not take the post of musical director until 2010. How could they dream of filling such an essential position until that time. Muti could listen to Yeh as temporary principal and then have auditions.
I never cared much for Combs or Yeh; neither is in the tradition of the really great clarinetists of the past. Remember too that the orchestra has lost so much during the disastrous leadership of Barenboim. It will take a lot of rebuilding before it can reach its past glory of the days of Solti, Giulini and Reiner.
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Author: graham
Date: 2009-01-20 11:21
Is this audition subject to a bar on immigration, or could it be characterised as a sufficiently important post to allow recruitment from outside the US? If so, then perhaps that wider net would allow the appointment of whatever/whomever it is they are after.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2009-01-20 11:39
Yes, these are fascinating posts.
After reading the latest ones last night, I thought of a related question that some of you might be able to answer. Obviously, the CSO wants the very best clarinetist, someone who will carry on the great CSO tradition.
What then, does a major symphony orchestra do if a saxophone player is needed? I'm thinking of some of the famous orchestral sax parts, such as the solos in Bolero, Lt. Kije, and the first L'arlésienne Suite. Obviously, the CSO (or any other orchestra) would want and expect nothing less than the best. I know that in some orchestras, a bassoon player or clarinet player will play the sax parts when needed, but from what I know, the usual practice is to bring in an outsider. Do conductors and/or committees usually audition sax players in advance to bring them in when necessary? Do orchestras usually have one designated sax player, or do they take whoever happens to be available?
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2009-01-20 13:27
I hope the next audition is not held in Jan.or Feb.
The committee should have known that what extreme dry/cold weather does on the reeds.
Last Fri.audition day was the coldest day in Chicago in a decade.
Some will argue that a professional should be prepaired for all weather conditions.
I agree to some degree,but such an important audition shouldn't done when weather is the main concern for all players.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-01-20 14:15
When I did the sub-audition for the Phila. Orch I had to walk the entire length and width of Verizon Hall as I was in the first warmup room.
It's rough to have to walk a distance and then play right away.......
Ironically, I train my students in competitions to do just that to help prepare for nerves.
Cardio shape is very important for wind playing
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-01-20 15:30
Graham wrote:
>> Is this audition subject to a bar on immigration[?] >>
No -- I know of a foreign invitation to audition.
People do seem to be making very heavy weather of all this.
Tony
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Author: bbowman1
Date: 2009-01-20 18:54
Does someone have the list they used at the audition? Some of my studients are curious about the contents.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-20 19:29
ozlock wrote:
<<But most significant is why CSO bothers having auditions now. Muti will not take the post of musical director until 2010. How could they dream of filling such an essential position until that time.>>
Muti is supposed to be already "on the job" as music director-designate and overseeing auditions, at least according to this press release from last year, so while you make a good point, it's probably moot:
http://www.cso.org/main.taf?p=7,1,2,5,75
Graham wrote:
<<Is this audition subject to a bar on immigration, or could it be characterised as a sufficiently important post to allow recruitment from outside the US?>>
I realize Tony answered this question already, but I thought I'd ask if anybody had ever heard of this sort of rule being imposed in an American orchestral audition? I hadn't. I'm not an expert in employment law (i.e., don't take what I say to the bank), but I think it may actually be illegal (or at least legally *risky*) to have that kind of a rule in a U.S. orchestra audition, because, depending on the circumstances, it might be viewed as employment discrimination on the basis of national origin (which IS illegal here).
Incidentally, the Chicago auditions (and New York, too, I think) are famous for being open to anyone who wants to audition.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-20 19:42
bbowman1 wrote:
> Does someone have the list they used at the audition?
> Some of my studients are curious about the contents
The (first) Chicago Symphony Orchestra principal clarinet audition on January 2008 asked for these works to be prepared:
A. Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra
B. Bartok: Suite from The Miraculous Mandarin
C. Beethoven: Symphony No. 4
D. Beethoven: Symphony No. 6
E. Beethoven: Symphony No. 8
F. Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique
G. Brahms: Symphony No. 3
H. Brahms: Symphony No. 4
I. Kodaly: Dances of Galanta
J. Mendelssohn: Symphony No. 3, (Scotch)
K. Mendelssohn: Symphony No. 4, (Italian)
L. Mendelssohn: Scherzo from A Midsummer Night's Dream
M. Nielsen: Symphony No. 5
N. Rachmaninov: Symphony No. 2
O. Ravel: Rhapsodie Espagnole
P. Ravel: Daphnis and Chloe, Suite No. 2
Q. Resphigi: Pines of Rome
R. Rimsky-Korsakov: Capriccio Espagnol
S. Schubert: Symphony No. 8
T. Shostakovich: Symphony No. 1
U. Shostakovich: Symphony No. 9
V. Stravinsky: Firebird Suite
W. Stravinsky: Petrouchka
X. Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4
Y. Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6
Z. Tchaikovsky: Francesca da Rimini
...GBK
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Author: vin
Date: 2009-01-20 20:34
Big orchestras will often pay for or help pay for the winners of their auditions to get legal employment status if they aren't currently eligible. This costs a certain amount of money, which is why many smaller ones say up front that all applicants must be U.S. citizens or be work-eligible already.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-20 21:20
vin wrote:
> This costs a certain amount of
> money, which is why many smaller ones say up front that all
> applicants must be U.S. citizens or be work-eligible already.
That's understandable, and would be a whole different ballgame, legally speaking, from placing a bar on foreign applicants.
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Author: ozlock
Date: 2009-01-20 21:55
Great question.
I can tell you from personal knowledge of one specific CSO recording.
My cousin Stan Davis played the sax part for the Boulez recording of Bolero. He had been a clarinet player for decades with the Lyric Opera Orchestra. Although he began his musical pedagogy on alto sax, clarinet was his principal instrument throughout his professional career.
Stan was also a favorite supernumerary of Solti and Reiner who programmed a huge amount of Richard Strauss. While Clark Brody played Eb clarinet, Stan augmented the clarinet section. Stan also filled in when other CSO personnel became ill or died.
Other Lyric principals augmented the CSO when they were on European tours. For example, the bassoon and flute traveled with Solti in Europe. Some of the celloists also have played witht he orchestra.
In another recording of Bolero (probably the famous Solti) I was told that one of the bassoonists played the sax part.
As you can tell, my knowledge reflects back a few years. This is because I have been estranged from the CSO ever since they trolled the depths with Barenboim--I just cannot help myself from blasting Danny Disaster.
I do not know what the current situation is since I have not been interested in following orchestra matters for the past 15 years.
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Author: ozlock
Date: 2009-01-20 21:57
The list is available Online as is some of the music.
Hank
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-20 22:17
ozlock wrote:
> The list is available Online as is some of the music.
Not any longer ...GBK
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-01-21 13:49
>>Even the "right person" for the job could have a bad day and/or his/her performance might not have been representative of the player's true strengths.
>>
The orchestra might also want multiple auditions to determine whether a particular performer has bad days often. I don't know the CSO's procedure, but one way to check consistency in blind auditions might be to give each auditioner a permanent number, to use in future auditions (if any), so that the jury would know whether number 15 had auditioned previously and would be able to compare notes on the earlier tryout and the present one. It's not difficult to administer such a system; my local auction house, Quinn's, uses it. It's less of a hassle all round when my husband and I can keep the same number instead of filling out a form every week. I imagine people whose auditions went badly the first time wouldn't like it, though.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: ozlock
Date: 2009-01-26 05:30
ozlock wrote:
> The list is available Online as is some of the music.
Not any longer ...GBK
Try this link:
http://www.cso.org/res/pdf/prin_clarinet_rental_excerpts.pdf
Hank
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-01-26 14:22
Could someone tell me where these two players are from now, I'm not familiar with their names, Leigh and Olli Leppäniemi. I know the others. Thanks. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
Thanks!
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2009-01-26 16:28)
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