 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Marie from New York
Date: 2009-01-09 18:53
Anybody have any success with circular breathing? I have worked on producing air support with cheeks/tongue while inhaling through the nose and have gotten pretty used to that. But there is a very obvious "clunk" as I switch from using the air in my cheeks to using the new air I have just inhaled. Any tips anyone can share?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-09 19:08
I can circular breathe on oboe/cor which is easy as the breath resistance is very high, and also tried it when I had a go at playing bugle yesterday.
Reinstating normal breathing (new air) from reserve breathing (air in the cheeks) is the tricky bit, but with practice it does smooth out - persevere with it and you'll soon get it.
Once you've learnt it, it'll never be forgotten.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2009-01-09 20:48
It is reported that quite a few professional musicians have died from a heart attack caused from circular breathing.
jmsa
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-09 20:58
I (as a musician) find longer passages without a real or imaginary "breathing rests" rather unnatural to listen to. Like reading a book with no paragraphs nor a blank after the period between sentences.
Sorry - didn't mean to hijack your thread.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-09 21:11
You can't fault Heinz Holliger's ability to circular breathe, or his playing in general (if you're a fan like me).
Haven't heard circular breathing done by any clarinettists though - it's definitely not as easy to do on clarinet (but it's still possible).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: NgtheFling
Date: 2009-01-09 21:29
Here's a video of Julian Bliss Circular breathing on "Flight of the Bumble Bee"
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=7219918
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2009-01-09 21:31
I learned to do it, and once you get used to it it's not hard. That "clunk" will go away as you practice. Remember to keep things smooth. Once your cheeks get a little stronger, you'll be able to support the air for longer and eliminate the clunk, because you'll have plenty of time to make the switch. So, basically, just practice!
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Author: hinotehud ★2017
Date: 2009-01-09 22:31
I have been working on it for a couple of weeks now and have pretty good results. In addition to using your cheeks, push your tongue forward to help keep the air pressure steady. I have the best luck with throat tones and lower.
Keith
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-10 05:40
Marie from New York, do you mean you have that "clunk" when you play, or just in general? Can you do this on the clarinet at all (with the "clunk")? What helped me the most was actually seeing a person do it on a clarinet right in front of me.
>> Haven't heard circular breathing done by any clarinettists though -
>> it's definitely not as easy to do on clarinet (but it's still possible).
Several clarinetists (including me) use it a lot especially in new/modern improvised/jazz music. I can't really compare since I don't play double reeds but I don't think it's especially more difficult on clarinet than other instruments. I'm pretty sure it's a lot harder on flute.
>> I (as a musician) find longer passages without a real or imaginary
>> "breathing rests" rather unnatural to listen to. Like reading a book
>> with no paragraphs nor a blank after the period between sentences.
That depends whether the music needs to sound natural. Actually one idea in some music could be, for example, not sounding natural (though sounding natural needs some explaination since that's vague). I get the impression (maybe wrong) that by "longer passages" you are referring to very specific music you are imagining, except adding circular breath to it. A lot of times music that has circular breathing as a tool for some of its idea is based on very different concepts. Also, some music with circular breathing could be built in a way where the equivilent to "rests" are still music played, in a way that gives the same result. For example imagine a piano solo with a monotonic left hand and an active right hand. The left hand can continue all the time, without rests, and without disturbing or sounding annatural. The same can be playing solo on woodwind but organizing the ideas differently, because it's (mostly) just one note at a time.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-10 07:59
> For example imagine a piano solo with a monotonic left hand and an active
> right hand. The left hand can continue all the time, without rests, and
> without disturbing or sounding annatural.
Yeah, but I *know* that pianists and cellists etc can play for hours on end without a gasp, and it sounds quite normal, in my ears (or rather: my brain).
But when I hear a wind player play the same without a breath rest it is different.
--
Ben
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Author: Marie from New York
Date: 2009-01-10 20:18
I get the "clunk" as I am playing while attempting to circular breathe. It happens when transitioning from mouth air to lungs air. I have been sensing today as I practice that the trick lies in being able to sustain the sound produced by the "mouth air" long enough to smoothly introduce the new air. This is hard for me. But I am determined to persevere. There are several places in music that I would like to be able to sustain long enough to finish a very long phrase. It would be terrific to be able to do that seamlessly whenever I'd like.
To jmsa: Are you serious? Really? People have died from circular breathing? Or am I just gullible?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-10 20:54
I reckon they probably had heart attacks due to other factors. Circular breathing is still breathing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2009-01-10 22:20
Your normal breathing pattern allows you to pause between beaths. Circular breathing is a continuing breathing process with no pause. if you were to keep breathing without pause you eventially will hyperventilate. The medical reports on the death of Mr. Grover Washington Jr. state that the heart attack that resulted in his death was caused by circular breathing. The technique at the very least appears to be very risky.
jmsa
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-01-10 22:33
I imagine one has to have one on one personal instruction to "get it" because I've tried it and don't. I do wonder what the advantages of using it are supposed to be. To be able to play something "nonstop" doesn't seem to be an advantage. Sort of like.....computers are great and I love them but being able to do something faster or to do more work in a limited time.....only leads to more work.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-10 23:25
Albrecht Mayer circular breathed his way through a lot of oboe solos in Brahms 3rd at the recent(ish) Proms concert.
Dare I mention Kenny G?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-11 04:50
>> I do wonder what the advantages of using it are supposed to be
The advantages are not supposed to be anything... they ARE something 
There are ideas and concepts of music that you use circular breathing (general you). For example, someone who doesn't play legato, who knows, they might play great music that isn't based at all on legato, but they can't play ideas that based on legato. If they want to use ideas with legato they will have to be abele to play legato - same thing exactly. Or the same for any other technique of playing.
If the circular breathing is so dangerous, it's a wonder someone like let's say Evan Parker is still alive... playing 20+ minutes saxophone solos for decades, and other who similar things.
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Author: vials
Date: 2009-01-11 18:59
To me the advantages of circular breathing are obvious. Am I the only clarinetist who has experienced not having enough air to finish a phrase?? And I'm not talking about contemporary music written to be played with circular breathing; I mean the "regular" classical repertoire, like Mozart, Weber, etc. At several places in both Mozart's concerto and for example Weber's 1st concerto I find it difficult to get enough air to play the phrases without taking breaths in the middle of them. Of course I need to work more on my breathing technique, which I do every day, but I think my clarinet setup is a factor too; for example, I use hard reeds and maybe my setup requires more airflow then others' to produce a good, focused tone.
So I've started practicing circular breathing a little, because I think it will definitely help me play better musically. I don't want my lung capacity to decide for me how I should phrase, if that makes any sense
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-11 19:13
> I mean the "regular" classical repertoire, like Mozart, Weber, etc. At several
> places in both Mozart's concerto and for example Weber's 1st concerto I
> find it difficult to get enough air to play the phrases without taking breaths
> in the middle of them.
It would be interesting to know whether circular breathing was used in Mozart's time. Either that or the composers must have been bluntly ignoring what a good player could deliver with reasonable effort. I'd be very curious to hear an insider's take of that.
--
Ben
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2009-01-11 20:51
also when you play a lot of non-wind oriented music, for example lots of folkmusic(balkan, klezmer, etc), which are based on violins or other stringinstruments, if you want to blend with those, or sometimes even to be able to play some pieces at all, you have to be able to circularbreath!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-01-11 21:28
I've been under the impression that circular breathing is a relatively new technique i.e. maybe from mid-twentieth century. Anyone know for sure?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-11 21:35
Not really - the Aboriginies have been doing that for thousands of years.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-01-12 14:45
Thanks Chris P, ain't Wiki great. I'm still a bit skeptical regarding its value which seems to be greatest for playing the digiridoo, moto perpetuo, and Kenny G. (whom I am not deprecating.). Of course, the fact I can't "get it" causes me some bias.
Bob Draznik
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