 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2008-12-03 02:31
Actually, this is more a matter of etiquette or propiety rather than music. I overheard a discussion on this and wondered what you all think.
When playing this piece, should the clarinetist sit or stand? After all, the two parts are equal as it is a double concerto. If the clarinetist stands, is it not a slight to the pianist? In a piano trio, doesn't everyone sit?
Sit or stand, what do you think?
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-12-03 05:17
I say stand. Why? Well, my logic is this: if you had to clarinets playing together, they'd probably stand. The only reason why the pianist sits is because the pianist pretty much has to to play the instrument.
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2008-12-03 07:57
I think definitely stand - apart from anything else, the clarinettist will breathe better standing whereas the pianist doesn't have to worry about this.
Vanessa.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2008-12-04 04:16
When I played the 1st movement of this work (longer ago than I want to admit), I stood for it.
Making eye contact with a pianist seems easier if you can look at them over, rather than around, their music rack. However, it's a two-way street! In this case, the pianist objected to my silently fingering cued passages; I don't recall why.
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2008-12-04 12:43
Tony Pay wrote:
> Nessie1 wrote:
>
> >> I think definitely stand - apart from anything else, the
> clarinettist will breathe better standing whereas the pianist
> doesn't have to worry about this.>>
>
> I'm sorry, Vanessa, but this isn't true.
>
> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2000/12/000604.txt
>
> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2000/12/000654.txt
>
> http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2000/12/000662.txt
>
> Tony
>
Well, Tony, far be it from me to disagree with the opinion of someone whose experience and abilities are far above anything I will ever achieve. It may be a subjective opinion but I believe that I have more control over the breath when standing; it's not so much a question of capacity but more one of an ability to project. As I say, I don't have any objective scientific-type evidence to submit and it may be some kind of shortcoming in my technique but that's what I find works for me.
What I would say, however, is that if one is playing seated e.g in a band, orchestra or chamber group,. there is definitely a better way to sit from the breathing pont of view (as straight as possible) and a worse way to sit (slumped).
Vanessa.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2008-12-04 14:08
Vanessa wrote:
>> Well, Tony, far be it from me to disagree with the opinion of someone whose experience and abilities are far above anything I will ever achieve.>>
Let's leave that aside for the moment.
>> It may be a subjective opinion but I believe that I have more control over the breath when standing; it's not so much a question of capacity but more one of an ability to project.
But I don't find anything in that to disagree with. You are saying what's true for you and your clarinet playing.
>> As I say, I don't have any objective scientific-type evidence to submit and it may be some kind of shortcoming in my technique but that's what I find works for me.>>
If you and I were working together as pupil and teacher, and I noticed some shortcoming of that nature, I would of course tell you how you might avoid it -- if I knew. But it seems to me unlikely.
So, we're in agreement. But your first paragraph suggests that we're not.
And the resolution of that is to see that your original statement, whether you meant it to be or not, wasn't about you, but about some general clarinet player being disadvantaged by sitting down.
See, there is in the world the false notion that playing while sitting is in general less satisfactory for ANY wind player, for well-defined physiological reasons. In another part of the thread that I excerpted, Kevin Fay reported how he had been victimised by a band-master who INSISTED on his standing to play. And, also in that thread, several people erroneously maintained that there was scientific evidence to say that you lost 25% of your lung capacity by sitting down.
(Here's one such:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2000/12/000639.txt)
Though it's true that I'm a more experienced player than you, nothing in this discussion relies on that. And I wasn't giving my opinion, only pointing out that statements of personal preference -- opinions again -- are to be distinguished from statements of fact.
As in another thread, everyone can, and should, make this distinction.
Tony
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-12-05 01:26
Personally I prefer to stand and I think it looks better when a soloist stands. With that said, I have no real problem if a clarinet player prefers to sit. I’d rather hear someone play better sitting than looking better and not sounding their best. I think it depends on the player. I seen many fine players sit while playing a solo. I believe Harold Wright used to sit and I’ve heard of others as well. I know Anthony Gigliotti sat towards the end of his career and when he taught at Peabody in his last few years he insisted that his students sit. He would often argue that you sit in the orchestra and when playing chamber music so why not when playing a solo. Many players that play double lip sit to support their clarinets. Let’s just leave this up to the player to determine how the play they’re best and let it go at that. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
Listen to a little Mozart, live performance.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2008-12-05 02:04
So, perhaps the conclusion might be that there doesn't seem to be a consensus here that there is any reason for the clarinetist to play differently (standing vs. sitting) for this piece from the way he/she would play in any other piece for piano and clarinet. The pianist has to sit. The clarinetist can sit or stand as his/her best playing comfort dictates.
Regarding the relationship between the two instruments, I'm not so sure it's any different in the Grand Duo Concertante from that in the Brahms Sonatas or any number of other chamber works for clarinet and piano. A Sonata for Clarinet and Piano (as distinct from one "for Clarinet with Piano Accompaniment," - though I can't think offhand of even one that's actually titled that way) may be just as equally collaborative as Weber's piece.
Karl
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-12-05 13:46
Although I don't play in public (amateur with killer stage fright and not good enough to play in public anyway), as an ambidexter, I feel obliged to contradict myself, oops, I mean keep my options open, as much as possible, just in case someday I do need to play in public. Therefore I alternate practicing while standing up and practicing while sitting down, except on piano, where I've never mastered that cool nonchalance of the jazz pianists who noodle along while standing as they bend over the keyboard in an elegant slouch (instead of the way I look: like a zhlub). But for clarinet players, I do think it's useful to practice each piece of music while standing and while sitting, so as to be ready, unruffled and unsurprised by a request from a conductor or fellow musician one day. Probably nobody will ever tell the orchestra to stand up while playing Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique, but if you can play that standing up, while swapping between four sizes of clarinets, then you can play anything.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-12-05 13:47)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-12-05 22:54
My mother used to show off our living room carpet as a badge of courage that her son, me, wore out a large spot in the carpet because I used to stand when I practiced, not bass clarinet of course. I used to stand all the time and still do when playing a solo piece with or without piano. Of course I always sit when playing chamber music, trios, quartets etc. When I listen to a recording I really don't care of the player was sitting or standing. As I said above, it's how the performer sounded, not if they're sitting or standing. Let's not make a big issue of this, it's not worth it. ESP
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-12-05 23:35
I'd stand. I am used to standing soloists, except when they play a piano, or maybe a bass tuba. In a way, remove everything that isn't necessary. For me, it's the most natural (or traditional) pose on stage.
I even stand when practising bass.
--
Ben
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