 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2008-09-27 04:51
Before I ask for advice, I want to make it clear that I understand that every horn/mouthpiece/barrel/reed/ligature/person is different and I should try them for myself.
That being said, I am considering purchasing a new barrel for my Buffet R-13. I use a Vandoren M-13 Lyre mouthpiece blue box #3s and a Rovner ligature...way too much information I know...
I have been a little frustrated lately with my playing and I want either a mouthpiece or a barrel that will help make the altissimo register more stable and full.
I recently tried a new style mp, the B-40Lyre, but to no avail. It had too much resistance for me even with the soft reeds vandoren recommends. And with some issues in the past with a palatal air leak, I want to avoid a major increase of air resistance. The B-40 did however allow me to place altissimo notes with minimal voicing effort.
Is there a mouthpiece that has a combination of the sweet sound of the M13 Lyre, and the stability I experienced with the B-40lyre?
Also, would this be a problem I can solve by purchasing a new barrel? My studio professor recommended a Moening barrel. But I've also seen others about Chadash, Fobes, Backun and the other specialists.
Sorry for the length, does anyone have some advice?
Thanks!
Neal Raskin
www.youtube.com/nmraskin
www.musicedforall.com
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-09-27 05:57
Have you tried stiffer reeds? Say a 4? The blue box 3 is quite, uhm (can't think of the word) not stiff. the M13 Lyre is a closed face mouthpiece.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2008-09-27 11:38
Neal,
I also play a M13lyre
I also use the tradtional reeds in 4, 3.5 and 3 (for varous mpcs)
I can tell you that the 3s do not speak well (for me) in the altissimo
The 3.5 are much better as stated. 4s even more so.
Yes, it will require a bit more air support. But practice .. it wil become easier
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-09-27 11:48
Try the 3.5s
Make sure that the connections between your current mouthpiece and barrel and between the barrel and the upper joint are secure....a wobble can induce squeaks.
Is laxity in the fabric ligature letting the reed to close up? Maybe move it up a notch and be sure it is tight.
Much as I would love to line my coffers with your money for a barrel, I doubt that the problem is barrel-related.
disclaimer....aw, u know the drill.
allan
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2008-09-27 12:41)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-27 12:41
Greg Smith makes really great Mouthpieces that make my spare Hite D and Gigliotti P sound bright by comparison.
That's what I'm suggesting for my students to try (compare) when upgrading to a pro level mouthpiece. I personally play the Backun C, but if I had played a Smith before, I may not have ever even tried the Backun as I was happy with my Gigliotti for 20 years.
I agree with the other posters - it's not the barrel.
And that I like a particular mouthpiece doesn't make any difference in what you may/will like so that's a mute point.
Ya have to try lots to find what works best for you. There are players who just love the Selmer HS* - I can't stand it.
And a #3 reed won't typicaly work very well on the highest notes - it's just too soft.
Neal - give what your studio professor suggests a serious consideration. He's the one who you trust with your playing - listen to him.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-27 13:33
Neal -
First, try two no-cost methods:
1. Go to http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=757&t=757 and read the section titled "TECHNICAL DIGRESSION: The clarinet overtone series and voicing," which discusses Charles Neidich's description of how to get the various registers to speak easily.
Next, read Ed Palanker's postings, and also my posting, at http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=266387&t=266137, including the linked posting on the swab-in-the-bell exercise at http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=158954&t=158878.
2. Try a string ligature, which I find improves the altissimo. There are great pictorial instructions at http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Uploads/strnglig.html. A tight-woven round shoelace is perfect.
For less money than a new barrel, you could try a Galper register vent. See http://www.mytempo.com/register.htm. I don't use one, but I've tried instruments with it installed and found that makes the altissimo easier.
A new barrel can improve altissimo response, particularly if you're playing the (cylindrical) standard R-13 barrel and go to a reverse-taper Moennig or Chadash model. However, I recommend that you spend a little more and get a matched mouthpiece and barrel from Greg Smith or Walter Grabner.
Tell the maker you choose that you play an R13 and that you've been using a Vandoren M-13 Lyre. Tell him also that you've had a palatal leak problem and need an easy-blowing setup and that you've had trouble with altissimo tone and response.
This will cost several hundred dollars, but it will make a much bigger improvement than just a barrel. You'll have it the rest of your life and get pleasure from it every time you use it, so make the jump if you can. If you absolutely can't afford it, you can get just a Smith or Grabner barrel, or try one from Segal, Fobes, or the other makers who post here. A hand-made barrel will be quite a bit better than one you order from Buffet, even if it is a Moennig or Chadash taper.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2008-09-27 14:26
Thanks for your responses and advice.
I used to play on vandoren blue box 3.5s and I think I switched down to 3s about a year and a half ago. If I remember correctly I switched down because of some resistance problems. Though, I'm wondering if I had a poor rotation of reeds. I have noticed that I end up clipping most of my 3s to get to the stiffer part of the tip.
So I think I'll start by ordering some 3.5s and maybe a box of 4s.
Another question I have is about my current M13 Lyre. The mp is about 4 years old, and the inner edge of the side rails in a couple of spots are looking a little worn down. Would this have any major effect on response, control etc.?
I have a suspicion that my switch to 3s has forced me to overcompensate in the altissimo register with my palate and tongue position... I spent all of last weeks lesson trying to eliminate motion in my throat. I have a feeling soft reeds have forced me to do that... Is that a safe assumption?
Thanks again!!!
Neal Raskin
www.youtube.com/nmraskin
www.musicedforall.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-09-27 14:41
Try a new batch of M13Lyres....they are quite good but highly variable. Maybe yours has warped
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-09-27 15:42
Try a harder reed on the M13 lyre. A 3 is probably colapsing on that mouthpiece. Have you tried the M30? Same sound qualities as the B40 but with less resistance because of the longer facing curve. Try an M30 with a 3 1/2 V12 or tradtional.
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2008-09-27 16:12
Speaking of the M30...
I just tried 2 M30 prof. 88. The first one was amazing; the second was good too, but it felt a little less resistant.
I absolutely love the first one I tried! The first time I tried it I was like... "WOW, this feels SO perfect!" And it makes me sound so much better too.
(I use it with 3.5 V.12 and 3 Traditional)
I think switching from an M13L to an M30 would be really different though, since the tip openings are pretty different. Maybe just try harder reeds as mentioned above, instead of switching mouthpieces and/or barrels.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-27 16:47
Neal -
Your mouthpiece description says it's badly worn and should be refaced or even replaced. From an old posting:
At a workshop a few years ago, there was a mouthpiece makers' round table, with Tom Ridenour, Charles Bay, James Pyne, Ralph Morgan and several others. I asked them how long one of their mouthpieces would stay in prime condition with daily use, and they agreed that it should be touched up after about a year.
They said that one of the signs of wear is that tongued notes in the clarion become "tender" or unstable.
Tom Ridenour said one way to tell extreme wear is to wet the lay lightly, hold the mouthpiece on the bottom of a piece of plate glass and roll it forward along the lay, looking at it from the other side of the glass. If you see circular patterns along the lay, or if there are any places where the water doesn't make an even seal, then the mouthpiece is in serious trouble.
Ken Shaw
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-27 16:47
The Galper Key/Tube combo is only for the Buffet Bb Clarinet which you do have. But I'd work on other aspects first before considering that as though it makes the upper register quite a bit easier, if there is a playing deficiency that needs to be worked out, getting a tool to shortcut it is not the way to go.
I'm the Distributor of it.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: davetrow
Date: 2008-09-27 17:35
I play a Richard Hawkins Student mouthpiece right now (I've been playing about six months after a 15-year layoff), so I don't know how applicable my experience is.
But, I recently visited Backun up in Burnaby and tried out each of their barrels and bells (I had sent my R-13 to them for a complete overhaul ahead of time). I settled on the MOBA barrel and the MOBA #5 bell, both in grenadilla. The barrel made a notable difference in the sound and stability of the altissimo register. Morrie did a little bit of hand tuning on the horn, too, but not in the altissimo.
I also tried a couple of mouthpieces (the C and the L), but by then my embouchure was blown and it was too many variables in the equation, so I decided to wait until my playing is more solid before getting crazy about mouthpieces. The Hawkins is more than good enough for me right now, I think.
Dave Trowbridge
Boulder Creek, CA
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-09-27 18:43
So many suggestions, so many mouthpieces, so little time. You are correct when you said you just have to try them. I would suggest you settle on a mouthpiece first and then the barrel if you feel that necessary. I can certainly give you a list of mouthpieces that I have my students try, I have about a dozen different ones for them to try out before we settle on what we both think is best for them. And remember, you have to try them with several different reeds because on one mouthpiece it may play better with a slightly softer or harder reed so you really have to have several. If you would like to have some recommendations of mouthpieces that I've been successful with my students, e-mail me. By the way, none of my students are presently using the same mouthpiece that I use, though several have in the past. I don't push what I use but I have them try one with all the others.
As far as a suggestion of changing ligatures, it is my belief that they do certainly do make a difference but again, mouthpiece-reed combination first, then barrel and or ligature. The mouthpiece is your voice, the reed is the external instrument to makes your voice work the best, the ligature helps the reed work at its optimum, "the barrel is an extension of the mouthpiece". That's a quote from Jack Brymer's book "The Clarinet". ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Listen to a little Mozart
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-27 19:04
"I asked them how long one of their mouthpieces would stay in prime condition with daily use, and they agreed that it should be touched up after about a year."
--------------------------------
That's really depressing Ken!
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-28 12:58
Steve -
By "daily use," I meant, and think I was understood to mean, use by a professional or conservatory student -- maybe 4 hours a day.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2008-09-28 18:20
Ed is very correct in saying
<<mouthpiece-reed combination first, then barrel and or ligature.>>
Many people overlook the next truth
<<"the barrel is an extension of the mouthpiece". That's a quote from Jack Brymer's book "The Clarinet". >>
Most mouthpiece craftsmen will have specific advice about what barrels work with each of their mouthpieces. Listen to them.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
World Class clarinet mouthpieces
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-09-28 19:52
Not all mouthpieces wear after a year, i've had my Hite for 8 years now and it has recently been measured to see if the lay had changed or warped by quite a few people including Mike Lomax. They all said that there is minimal wear on it which is amazing because that's the mouthpiece I use day in, day out for every concert, rehearsal etc. that I do. Just goes to show that there are some gems to be had.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-09-29 00:58
I've been using my Morgan clarinet mouthpiece for about 16 years now, day in and day out for everything I play. I never change mouthpieces and I think it plays at least as good as the first day I used it, maybe even better because I'm so used to it. It may be that I adjust to any imperfections but it still plays great for me. I used a Selmer C** bass clarinet mouthpiece for 40 years before I found something better. It may be that some mouthpieces need "touching up" often but my experiences with different mouthpieces, not the ones I use, is that once someone "touches up" a mouthpiece they rarely play the same way they did before, sometimes not as good but of course sometimes better. Of course if it doesn't feel good anymore it's silly not to have it touched up on the chance it will come back to life and hopefully even better. I've been told my many, including the master Everett Matson, that refacing is an art, not a science. Obviously some are better than others but unless I'm having a problem with my mouthpiece or find something better first I wouldn't let anyone touch my "best" mouthpiece, no matter how old it is. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
Listen to a little Mozart
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2008-09-29 01:12
Ken / David
thanks for the info ... was curious
i just wish i could practice 4 hours a day
Steve
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