 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sue G
Date: 2008-09-08 20:24
Hi
I've been playing the clarinet for pleasure for about 5 years now - I'm still having problems with muscle cramps in my fingers after playing for about 30 mins.
I'm wondering if this is a common problem and would appreciate any suggextions as to what I can do about it.
Fortunately I don't have the probem with my embouchure, which I think is quite reasonable now.
Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Sue
:)
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Author: D
Date: 2008-09-08 21:00
Well the obvious assumption without seeing you play is that you are very tense (probably in the shoulders) and holding your fingers at an unnecessarily strained angle. Have you played the same clarinet the whole time you have been playing or has this happened regardless of make or model?
If you are being overly tense, a good teacher and some yoga or similar exercises are probably the answer.
If it turns out that your fingers just happen to have their lengths distributed in such a way that it makes the clarinet awkward, it is perfectly possible to get key extensions built to make certain keys less of a stretch and improve your playing angle.
Similarly, it could be related to the angle of your thumb and the strain on the thumb joint twisting the rest of your hand position. Perhaps a ergonomic thumb rest or a sling might ease the situation.
Picture s of you playing might help, but your best bet is a consultation with a good teacher.
What do you do in the real world? If you use your hands a lot (typing, holding a chain saw etc) it could be that that is what is affecting your hands and not the clarinet, and better working position is needed in the day.
If you haven't played other makes of clarinet, try and swap instruments with a friend for a week to see if your particular key layout is the problem. When I bought one of my clarinets (small British maker Hanson) I was given the option of some slightly different key layouts which were designed because people do have different hands and prefer different things.
Best of luck and tell us what you find out.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-09 10:57
Probably you have a death grip on the instrument.
Also, remember that it isn't the fingers bending to play, the pivot point is at the knuckles at the palm (not the center of the fingers).
Relaxation is key. Possibly try a neckstrap to help keep the tension out of your hands and arms.
The other thing you can do before playing is to stretch your hands and warm them up completely before playing quickly.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-09 16:07
Sue -
Play for a few minutes and look at your fingertips. You'll undoubtedly see impressions of the holes and rings.
That comes from unnecessary (and counterproductive) pressure.
Your fingers should press only hard enough to cover a hole or overcome a spring on a ring or key.
Start with the hole for the left ring finger, which has no ring. Hold the clarinet out at a 45 degree angle, play low D and let your ring finger drop on the hole entirely by gravity. The low C will play even with just the weight of the finger covering it, with no extra muscle power.
Then play low Bb and drop your right middle finger for A and then your right ring finger for G. Experiment to find the least amount of pressure you can use and still have the note come out clear.
As you do these exercises, watch in a mirror to make sure that (1) your fingertips begin directly over the holes and only drop 1/2" or 3/4", and (2) your finger joints don't move, and all motion comes from the knuckle joints
Again watching in a mirror, do the opposite, raising each finger, always moving from the knuckle. The "fist-making" muscles should be completely relaxed, and the opposite muscles that open the hand should use only a tiny bit of strength to lift each finger.
You'll have to use a little fist-making muscle effort to press down a ring or key, but the feeling should be "effort up, no effort down."
As Keith Stein says in The Art of Clarinet Playing, this finger action is difficult to control at first, and your fingers will probably jump around. But once you get used to it, it stops cramping and frees up your technique.
It should feel like you're moving just the tips of your fingers, or just your fingernails, by remote control from your knuckles. Your fingertips should feel like they know where the holes are by radar.
Watch yourself in a mirror. Play as if you're trying to hide the fact that you're playing, making the smallest and lightest fingertip movements.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2008-09-09 21:33)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-09-09 21:14
I'd also recommend making sure your instrument is in good repair by taking it to a reputable technician. If something's out of whack, you're likely to compensate by pressing harder.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: jeffy
Date: 2008-09-09 23:12
I have not actually started playing yet but I can advise you to slow down and notice all the small things that you are doing. Move in slow motion to figure out how to get the most economy of your motion. Are you lifting your fingers too high? Are you pressing too hard? Are you realeasing the keys too early? Work on eliminating any wasted motion.
I personally can play keybaord for 10 hrs a day and I may sweat some but my hands are fine. Taking breaks and stretching is important too. Don't go into it at top speed. Settle into it. After I get my calrinet, I will have more to say on this.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-09-10 14:00
"After I get my calrinet, I will have more to say on this."
Uh, huh.....
Bob Draznik
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-10 16:44
If you have a adjustable thumb rest, try moving it upward to relieve some of the stress on the thumb. This also opens up your hand a bit and relaxes the rest of your rh fingers. For me, the best position for the rest is when my thumb is pretty much just below my first finger hole.
If no adjustable rest, you may have a technician move the thumb rest upwards for you--or, as Stanley Hasty recommended--move it yourself and simply glue it where you find a comfortable postition. He went on to say, "if you don't like the new position, knock it off and reglue it elsewhere." My college clarinet professor--who obtained his DMA studing with Hasty at Eastman--had his thumb rests glue on slightly off center as well as higher. I guess the possibilities are endless with glue lol. In any case, glue works just fine is you don't have access to a woodwind techincian.
Interestingly, I just visited the Ridenour website and noticed Tom is selling a "thumb saddle" that fits over your existing thumb rest. It "opens up" your hand to a more "relaxed playing position." Might want to check that out: http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/
Post Edited (2008-09-10 16:50)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-10 17:39
I agree with a great deal of the good information has been given above. I use Tom's thumb saddle and it does help me a quite a bit. The saddle can be even more advantageous on Eb clarinets.
"After I get my calrinet, I will have more to say on this."
How long until people realize that having an opinion does not mean that its' addition is useful? I understand that Jeffy plays an instrument regularly...but you don't play the clarinet and you really have nothing to add. The piano is not held as it is played, and especially not on the end of one digit in a design that is far from ergonomic.
Everyone has a right to their opinion (regardless of whether that opinion is founded in fact or not) and this is a public forum. Every once in a while I think people should stop and think about what they're about to contribute, and whether they are adding constructively to the discourse. (And this is their 17th post!!!)
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-09-11 02:20
I guess cramps in one's fingers are similar to cramps in muscles in general. Maybe keeping a heatng pad or similar heat source nearby would help relieve the problem. But as far as solving the problem that's something I can't even comment on.
Bob Draznik
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Author: stebinus
Date: 2008-09-11 13:47
Whatever you do don't play through the pain. When you get a cramp stop playing right away, massage the area for a while and then go back to playing. If the massage didn't help then quit for the day and don't play again until the cramp is gone. When we start doing something new as an adult we don't have the suppleness of children and are much more prone to these kind of stresses. Your fingers are probably just reacting to an intense activity and will take time and patience to become used to it. Don't force the progress or you could wind up with serious injuries.
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Author: jeffy
Date: 2008-09-11 14:22
Tobin,
Clarinet is cool and all but it is an instrument that you blow in and push buttons. It in no way requires the twisting and stretching required on a guitar or keyboard. Guitar and keyboard are both capable of playing chords and melodies at the same time.
All in all a composer that plays piano has many advantages over any instrument with a polyphany of one. It is unfortuante that you want to take it there but in the end, you chose an instrument that is limited.
That being said, I think my perspective is just as valid and I hope that you can put your ego aside as I have and give me some pointers that will actually help me pick up the clarinet faster.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-11 16:12
jeffy wrote:
> Clarinet is cool and all but it is an instrument that you blow
> in and push buttons. It in no way requires the twisting and
> stretching required on a guitar or keyboard. Guitar and
> keyboard are both capable of playing chords and melodies at the
> same time.
Jeffy, many of the folks on here, myself included, also play guitar and keyboard. (Pretty much all music majors have to learn to play the piano to some degree, btw). While it's true that you don't have to do a lot of twisting and stretching on a clarinet like you do on a keyboard or guitar (and I play a classical guitar, so I *know* about stretching), that does not mean that there are not some ergonomic problems associated with the clarinet. These problems are very different than what you have experienced on keyboard and guitar.
In fact, your own statement that piano and guitar require stretching and twisting, while clarinet does not, actually defeats the point you were trying to make earlier about how to reduce finger cramping, where you drew from your keyboard experience. Keyboard and clarinet are challenging in different ways and involve very different kinds of movements and muscles. Hence, it is very difficult to carry over experience from the keyboard (or guitar) to clarinet, unless, of course, you already have experience playing both instruments, so you have some idea already about what works and what doesn't.
The clarinet is difficult from an ergonomic standpoint because you have to fully support the instrument with your right hand while using that same hand to finger notes. You don't have this problem on guitar or keyboard. Keyboard instruments are designed to be freestanding. Guitar players use straps or their knee and arm to support the instrument. Some clarinet players use neckstraps (much like saxophonists do), but that is the exception, not the rule.
It is also true that clarinet is a monophonic instrument, as opposed to a polyphonic instrument. However, I guarantee that it will take you considerably more effort (especially in your facial muscles) to get even one pleasant-sounding note out of a clarinet than it will to play a whole chord on either a guitar or piano. Transitions between high and low notes are very hard on clarinet, while they are trivial on a piano or guitar. While wind instruments don't have some of the same difficulties that keyboard and stringed instruments do, they are difficult in different ways. You won't realize this fully until you start to play, yourself. Even violin is easier in this regard.
In a nutshell, you can't simply "push buttons" and blow. It's not that simple.
I understand your concern about people respecting your opinions. Goodness knows, I've said plenty of stuff that people have disagreed with on here. I'm not a professional musician, either. The difference, though, is that I have 20-some-odd years of experience playing the clarinet, and I play at a fairly advanced level (I'm one of those rare people who have reached a ripe old age of 32 and play in an orchestra). If I post something, even if it turns out to ultimately be wrong, I at least had some experiential basis for what I wrote--so if I'm actually wrong about something, my misconception is probably shared by someone else, so somebody else will probably learn something besides me. And sometimes I am able to post something that someone actually finds helpful, which is very gratifying.
Merely theorizing about the practical aspects of playing an instrument you've never played, however, doesn't help anyone who actually has the instrument in hand, especially if you're dead set on being an advocate for your position. If you want to contribute something from the keyboard/guitar world, that's fine--but the experienced players on this board (and I am hardly representative of the high level of experience found here) will only respect what you have to say if you acknowledge that it's highly likely that what you have to say will not apply to the clarinet--and oftentimes such contributions are better posed as questions, rather than as statements of opinion or fact.
You also need to have pretty thick skin to post on here. Even the pros take a beating here from time to time.
OK. I'm off my soapbox for now.
Post Edited (2008-09-11 16:59)
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Author: vin
Date: 2008-09-11 16:38
I've been playing professionally for many years, but apparently I've been doing it all wrong. Where are these buttons you speak of?
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Author: chipper
Date: 2008-09-11 16:45
Do you mean to tell me that one doesn't simply "push buttons and blow"? Oh my gosh, I'll have to rethink this instrument.
Seriously, though, this thread has been quite helpful. I've been playing for four years now and at times my forearms will ache, but it tends to be after I've typed a lot at work or done semi skilled physical labor with my hands, carpentry, masonry, etc. Please reiterate: I have three joints on my fingers, the nearest to the tip, the middle and the joint connecting the finger to the palm. From which joint should the primary movement be initiated?
Thanks
Chipper
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-11 16:49
Much obliged for the wise words provided by MRN. I have had to study piano to achieve the degrees that I have, but I don't look down upon my instrument for being monophonic, nor look up to the piano for being so.
I have never met (although I'm certain you'll find one) a pianist who thought they were fundamentally a greater musician for playing their instrument than another musician of the same caliber. Oh, wait, look...we just did!
Jeffy:
"All in all a composer that plays piano has many advantages over any instrument with a polyphany of one."
Tell that to Hector Berlioz. If you do not understand the historical context of Berlioz's impact then look it up.
You're the one who has displayed the ego with the higher-than-thou condescension. I did not exalt myself nor the clarinet for your disparagement.
"That being said, I think my perspective is just as valid and I hope that you can put your ego aside as I have and give me some pointers that will actually help me pick up the clarinet faster."
My post was not in response to your request for aid (which is something I provide frequently on what topics I can)...you didn't ask for any! I responded to YOUR providing aid that you are not qualified to give, and which did not address the OP's issues.
"It is unfortuante that you want to take it there but in the end, you chose an instrument that is limited."
I did not take it anywhere. I described the fundamental difference in how the instruments are held. YOU brought up the mono/polyphony, the superiority of pianists, and your "valid" opinion. By the way, the piano is not an "unlimited" instrument.
"Clarinet is cool and all but it is an instrument that you blow in and push buttons."
I could not possibly supply better words to describe you're understanding of the clarinet, and the validity of your clarinet opinion.
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2008-09-11 17:06)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-11 16:51
Hello Chipper,
"Please reiterate: I have three joints on my fingers, the nearest to the tip, the middle and the joint connecting the finger to the palm. From which joint should the primary movement be initiated?"
The joint that is connected to the palm of your hand. Generally speaking the curvature of your fingers should be maintained while the joint moves...but your personal hand position and size should be taken into account.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: jeeves
Date: 2008-09-12 01:11
If you just have a cramping problem, it might not just be because the way you play. Maybe... Any medical reasons for this?
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Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2008-09-13 02:46
Watch the tension, just as everyone has said. I don't get cramps per say, but I've gotten pretty tense when playing, and it definitely doesn't feel good. I agree that finding a teacher would be great so they can see what you're doing.
As for the clarinet being limited; all instruments are limited to some point. When was the last time you played a whole note on the piano and did a crescendo through it? How about vibrato? Flutter tongue? Growl? Glissando? Bend a note?
Really, the list goes on and on. Each instrument is unique and has it's own challenges and special characteristics. With that being said, I have played at least a little on keyboards, guitars, and western wind instruments, but that doesn't mean I would go a board like this for another instrument and chime in when I am unsure. (Although I do my best to give my students good advice-I'm a band director as well as a performer.)
Have a wonderful weekend all!
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-09-15 21:06
Dear Jeffy,
I have not laughed this hard in a long time.
Thank you. I've been making much work of playing my clarinet all these years. The "push buttons and blow" system has changed my life.
Sincerely,
Clare Annette
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