 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-08-25 22:33
I'm having a hard time convincing myself it's ok to start flute. I have played Sax in the past, and even though I haven't played it in a few years, I know I can pick it back up fairly quickly and within a year or two be back at a level I deem competant. So on the advice of my section leader (clarinet/sax doubler), he suggested to get an earlier start on flute, and then a year from now start picking up the sax again.
My problem is that no matter how I look at it, all I keep thinking is, "I still have so much more to learn on clarinet, why am I going to take time away from that to start a WHOLE new instrument?" On the other hand, I believe I'm doing well enough on clarinet to handle 90 - 95% of the music given to me by my band very well. But is that enough to take a little bit of time away from the clarinet? Do I really need to strive for perfection on one instrument before starting to learn another?
Advice/thoughts please. Just to help me decide one way or the other.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2008-08-25 23:04
Flute is easier than clarinet,I think.
Embouchure is completely different though,your lips should be
stretched out flat,and without reed,you feel very different blowing across
the mouth opening.
Placing the mouth hole to the lips is very critical.
Fingering is familiar Bohm system.
Have fun.
One thing different than clarinet--->It seems to me that the sound quality
depends more on the price of the flute.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-08-25 23:05
Hi Alexi.
Quitcher bitchin', pick up a flute and start blowing on it. Expect to hyperventilate for a while, and get little cramps in your fingers from the 'weird' stretches. You'll get through it soon enough. Adding another instrument to your repertoire can only help your primary instrument playing.
Grandpa Dave
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-08-26 00:57
Depends on what you want to do with your music. I started out wanting to be a WW doubler. Clarinet was my major instrument; I played tenor and bari, self taught my self the oboe in high school, and began flute lessons in my first year of college as a clarinet major. Mannes School of Music, studying with Eric Simon at the time. By the way, I could never get through a flute lesson without getting dizzy and having to sit down. If you want to be a doubler begin the flute ASAP, just keep up your clarinet and sax chops.
With me, after falling in love with classical music, I sold my other instruments and bought a bass and Eb clarinet and really concentrated on the clarinet family. The rest is history. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Listen to a little Mozart
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Author: am0032
Date: 2008-08-26 02:12
The most difficult part about playing the flute is getting a beautiful sound in all registers. In a short amount of time your technique will grow immensely but your sound will be the give away of how long you have been playing. When you sound bad on the clarinet, you can always try another reed. You have no one to blame but yourself on the flute. Playing in difficult keys is much easier on the flute than clarinet but it always comes back to getting a great sound.
Adam
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-08-26 02:53
What is your goal to learn flute for?? I thought you were working hard to get as good as possible at Clarinet?
Flute will detract from that in my opinion.
Be carefull with spliting your practice time.
It will make you more versatile though.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-08-26 12:34
"The most difficult part about playing the flute is getting a beautiful sound in all registers."
Add to that:
1. Playing the third octave with good control of pitch and volume. (The louder you play on a flute, the sharper it tends to go - big time! - unless you compensate, with very delicate embouchure skills)
2. leaving behind you the tendency for flute players to play sharp (especially third octave) and keeping in tune with the clarinet beside you, doing the decent thing acknowledging that it is far more difficult to adjust pitch on a clarinet. (But beginners on flute cannot adjust pitch either, especially in the third octave. :-)
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-08-26 13:07
I picked up flute as a side instrument back in high school as a girlfriend at the time was playing it and could get me started in playing. Biggest difference is the lack of resistance and the volume of air required. Even after many years I can only play 4 measures of 4/4 meter on flute without gasping for a breath! Flute seems much easier than clarinet though (no worries about going over the break!) and I have a nice sound and vibrato on it. Getting ppp in the third octave and fff in the low octave both require some breath and embouchure control. I think learning another instrument does teach you something about the peculiarities of your primary instrument too.
Playing it does give you some opportunities in pit orchestras for those cumbersome "Reed 1" books often double(triple??) flute, oboe and clarinet. Now there's some embouchure changes!
Good luck wit it Alexi.
Eefer guy
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-08-26 13:30
Earlier this year, I started studying flute "seriously" after having plunked around with it for thirty years as an occasional doubler. (By "seriously," I mean with a goal of being able to sit in a section of first-class professional-level flutists, and hold my own.) So my comments are based on my own experience, and as always, YMMV.
First, it may not require as much practice time as you fear. You already have finger technique under your belt, and the flute's not dissimilar enough in that regard to require serious muscular or cognitive retraining. As regards embouchure and breathing, more practice time does not always equal quicker results, in fact the inverse may be true.
Second, work with a good teacher (by which I mean, someone with major conservatory background) or, failing that, the best teacher you can find in your area. I believe that depth and quality of a teacher's training are CRUCIAL in learning an instrument from scratch, especially flute.
Third, for inspiration (essential when beginning an instrument), listen to the best. (I recommend Julius Baker, period, end of sentence. Not much Julius Baker product out there, but there is a website. Also there's a 'Music Minus One' recording of him that's pretty close-miked, meaning you can REALLY hear his sound without a lot of hall reverberation. Rampal is good too. Again, YMMV.)
Fourth, if you're like me, you may find that embouchure is a totally different animal, elusive and inconsistent. (Hopefully not, but you DID ask!) After eight months I'm still looking for the "sweet spot" on the flute, and making minute adjustments each practice session with mouth, tongue, oral cavity, breathing, lip spread, yadda yadda, and still have yet to find "the" configuration. Again, your experience may be different, but be prepared at least to do some fairly intensive grappling with embouchure. Forearmed is forewarned!
Fifth, breathing is also crucial, and I had to re-learn breathing and body alignment, from the ground up, as a prerequisite for good air flow. I devote as much attention to breathing as to embouchure, and I'm still putting THAT together too.
What have I gained (you may well ask!)? In my particular case, my breath control and phrasing on clarinet (and sax) are orders of magnitude better. My awareness of the role of physicality in playing has deepened (all my doubles benefit from that). My appreciation and empathy for the struggles that beginners face has grown such that if I were a teacher, it would probably change my approach with my beginning students.
Finally, with all the struggle, my flute playing is getting better all the time, and I have moments where I sound absolutely great. That is enough, for me, to keep on with the larger goal still in sight. If my goal were to sound decent as a doubler having to play the occasional flute line in a sax section soli, I could quit studying right now.
Oh--did I mention, "YMMV"???
good luck, by the way.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-08-26 15:30
"Flute is easier than clarinet,I think."
It is "easy" to get a beginning tone and learn the essential fingerings on any instrument--it's quite another thing to become "good" on any of them. You basically, as suggested above, have to work at learning flute technique--just like our friend, the clarinet. The GOOD NEWS--they do not use reeds. Here's what one expert sax, flute and clarinetist Santy Runyon, told me at Mid-West one year:
He said that prior to his theatre pit gigs, he would "drive everyone else crazy" with his flute warmup which envolved playing a series of long tones for over twenty minutes before each show--sometimes, three a day. Santy made his reputation with his infamous "sound baffle" Runyon saxophone mouthpieces--he "never played a sax mouthpiece that he didn't make"--but from what I've heard from the old guys, in addition to his flawless technique on sax and clarinet, his flute sound was what set him appart from the others also playing musicals.
Flute is like anything else, you got to work at it. While it may take a bit of time from your clarinet practice schedule, I think that in the long run, playing the flute will compliment your clarinet technique, especially helping to strengthen the other muscles of your embouchure. Flute?? Good for it--you can do it if you try. And good luck with those long tones.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-08-26 17:34
From a friend who's an amazing flutist, who told me what Kincaid told her.
You don't blow through the flute. You only blow from one side of the embouchure hole to the other.
You don't have to fill the instrument with air. It's already full.
Ring it like a bell.
Ken Shaw
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2008-08-26 21:18
I took up flute to add as a third doubling instrument after sax and clarinet. I play some pit orchestra for musical plays and thought I might be able to just play some easy flute sections. I don't hope to get great on flute--just decent, and hence it doesn't take much time away from my clarinet practice. You might think of approching it on that basis.
Leonard
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-08-26 22:41
I also picked up sax for jazz band in middle school but still kept to clarinet as my main instrument. I enjoy learning new instruments for fun so i picked up the flute out of boredom and wanting to have musical diversitiy i guess.. i dont think it takes away from much playing time considering i was involved in alot of music stuff at school but i only practiced flute a little at home..
it is quite an adjustment at first going from a reed instrument to the flute and my hands/wrists were killing me after only an hour of 'playing' from not being used to the different angle they were at. The emboucher also took me the longest to get but once i got it down it was fairly easy and after a while you notice that the fingerings of notes are rather similar to clarinet and saxaphone as someone else stated. i think its good to have diversity, even if you arent an expert at other instruments, i definately dont think it would be a bad thing to try it out.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-08-26 22:52
Thanks for all the words of encouragement (esp. Grandpa Dave! lol. Didn't know that you could go from not wanting to be called "Mr. Spiegelthal" to "Grandpa Dave" in such a short time!)
I think my goal is more along the lines of Leonard A above. Right now my job is clarinet. But clarinet playing is at a level where I feel that I'm definitely pulling my weight at my job and able to do what's expected of me. So I want to add others so that far down the road (years and years), I can maybe start taking up some side jobs in pits or maybe just have the opportunity to sub/supplement other ensembles (for instance if a salsa band wanted someone to play sax for a gig where someone can't make it or if they were looking for a flute for a song or two, I could play backup six and kick in the flute when necessary - just one example).
Well, the verdict is in, I'm gonna quit being a pansy and LEARN THE FLUTE!!!! (wait . . . did I just contradict myself?!) lol. I crack myself up!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Avie
Date: 2008-08-26 23:06
Im fairly familiar with the flute which is played by a friend who recently tryed violin but went right back to flute. IMO it is good to experiment with as many differant instruments as possible but remain focused on your favorite and one that you have the most aptitude for. I dont think I will ever learn to play the clarinet like I would like to so I will stay with it. It is one of the most versatile of instruments.
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Author: blazian
Date: 2008-08-26 23:15
I started on flute about four months ago at the end of last school year (my HS sophomore year). I definitely hyperventilated every time I played, and I still do occasionally. In band I typically (actually always) play bass clarinet and I think the flute takes more air than I'm used to. I think piccolo is actually easier.
- Martin
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2008-08-27 20:53
I discussed my misadventures with flute in another thread recently. My only advice would be make sure you have a decent flute - especially one with a decent head joint that works for you.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-08-28 03:23
A Yamaha student flute head is about as decent as they get without paying a lot for a professional head.
A 'decent' body is one where the mechanism is reliable, and and adjusted well, so that the pads seal well on the tone holes with very little finger pressure.
A student Yamaha, again, is pretty darn good, but as with most non-pro (and many pro) flutes, ideally the tone holes should be levelled, so that the pads still seal reliably when they lose their resilience from use.
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Author: stebinus
Date: 2008-08-28 14:35
I'd say go for it. I love playing all different kinds of instruments. Putting yourself in a box when you want to try different things can lead to a stifling life of drudgery. Some people enjoy focusing on a few things in life. Others of us like a wider range of experience. Everyone's different.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-08-28 14:46
The big concern might be that flute playng would be deliterious to your clarinet playing. That probably won't happen....the reverse might be true. You should establish early on the fundamentals of flute playing.....how to get different registers in a conventional fashion. One or two lessons will help here. Flute pedagogy is abundant. There is a wealth of techniques that you should make use of. Sign up for the Flute boards...like Galway's. There is lots of help. good luck.... oh ps. I recently helped someone pick out a new flute. After comparing various instruments I settled on the Azumi as #1 Yamaha #2. These were both open hole b foot models ..... step up models?
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2008-08-28 23:16
I agree with "Grandpa Dave's" response. Funny guy! ;-)
Playing different instruments for me only helps all of them. Playing the bass clarinet has helped build breath support which helps on the flute. Playing the flute has made me totally not afraid of high notes on the Bb Clarinet.
In the beginning, you may want to get some of those things that clip on your flute to help your hand position - can't remember the name right now. (Those little black things...) For me they were helpful for a time.
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2008-08-29 05:04
Couple of comments;
Flute is a challenging instrument in and of itself. Don't underestimate its difficulties just necause it's easy to get a sound out of it and fingering is straightforward.
At its best, it's sound is probably the most transcendent of any wind instrument, and not easy to achieve throughout the registers. A good low register is just as hard to achieve as are upper ones.
If anybody is getting dizzy from playing a flute, they have some serious woodshedding to do ( and should get a teacher). Blowing a flute should never take that much air. It's just a reflection of no embouchure control - or no embouchure.
Remember that flute was one of the very earliest wind instruments and has had a long time to evolve into a nearly perfect horn as regards fingering, intonation, and purity of sound. There's literally nothing between you and the sound - no reeds good or bad, hard or soft, no mouthpiece, ligature or barrel to affect the sound.
Flute has a huge library - second only to that for violin (and piano of course). Patelson's flute section is proof of that.
Good luck
B.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-08-29 06:03
"and fingering is straightforward."
There's nothing too straight forward about the fingering in the third octave, and inaccuracies show up badly, and a lot of the music is in that octave. (And there is no 'flute in b' to rescue you when the fingering gets tricky.)
:-)
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-08-30 14:26
I have been very happy with the Emerson flutes and they are certainly at the low end price-wise of the "good" flutes. One of my last gigs had me doubling a little flute on two pieces and the flutist even said "you have a lovely sound, is it a Haynes?". This is an 88B I believe. Anyway, add it to your lists of "give it a try" Alexi.
Eefer guy
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