 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ashley91489
Date: 2008-07-22 05:30
I'm looking at some metal clarinets on eBay. I've been wanting one for some time now so I'm considering purchasing one. Many need new pads though. Is this something I could learn to do or would it be absolutely necessary to take to a professional? I really can't afford that right now as to why I'm asking. I've seen kits on WWBW and thought I might give it a try if it would be possible to do on my own. If so, could anyone advise me on how to repad? Any tips would be greatly appreciated!
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-07-22 05:59
Would be a good learning experience if you're very technically minded. For your first pad job, though, I imagine the results would leave much to be desired, especially if you're doing it without the input of an experienced tech. Heck, I've thought some of my pads were fine until my tech looked at them and yelped in shock that I was able to play with them in that condition... once they were done with it, I was delighted at how well it played. Also, I have no idea how good the pads in those kits are.
So yeah, I imagine you might be able to teach yourself, but I wouldn't count on it turning out terribly good.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-07-22 06:13
Many metal clarinets (and all other kinds of clarinets on ebay) need major work. Changing the pads is not enough. If the key work is bad then the pads won't seal. If you want to learn changing pads, start with a fairly ok clarinet. Change one pad to start out. Go from there.
[edited- misread OP]
Post Edited (2008-07-22 08:54)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-07-22 13:10
Different people will interpret "difficult" differently, so that's a hard question to answer, but if you buy a good repair manual and make sure you're buying the right size pads (there are quite a lot of differences from one brand and model of clarinet to another), I think a person with reasonable manual aptitude can learn to do this job. But here's the catch: In the long run, it might be cheaper (along with a lot less frustrating, with better results) to have a pro do the work and get it right the first time. I'd recommend do-it-yourselfing only to people who think they might want to make a hobby of it.
The hobby approach works for me because I['m somewhat addicted to pickin up grubby old clarinets at yard sales and flea markets, and I can't begin to afford to have all of them restored professionally. If I could afford to have the excellent local repairman do everything for me, I'd fork over the money in a heartbeat, because his work is worth what he charges. Still, I'm comfortable with tools, because I worked as a stained glass designer-builder for years. So I learned how to do repadding and other routine maintenance work, but cautiously: I started out in 1998 with a metal clarinet I bought for $20 at a yard sale.
I assumed that cheap, filthy, smelly clarinet in its wrecked case was worthless junk, expendable (in case my amateurish self-teaching efforts wrecked it...)--but was I ever wrong! I soon learned, from inquiring on this bulletin board, that I'd ignorantly stumbled into a bargain on a Silva-Bet, one of the few really good metal clarinets. Fortunately, I didn't manage to destroy it on the learning curve--but I did have to play put-and-take with those pads (and some springs and some key corks and...) a number of times before I got everything to work.
Thus my recommendation: start with a metal clarinet, if you can find a cheap one. There's a lot less chance of damaging a metal instrument if you make the mistakes that are inevitable (for me, at least!) during the learning process.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-07-23 00:50
well you can start on a metal clarinet, but i personally wouldn't recommend going that route. Because metal encourages precise key movements, most metal clarinets end up in really poor mechanical condition. metal expands in heat, and overtime will start to lock certain pieces up.
go with a cheap wood clarinet to start repairing. they are reliable and consistent through the process. metal clarinets are challenging in a sense that keywork usually has to be rebent, and springs reinserted due to rusting.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Bill
Date: 2008-07-23 12:38
Clarinet restoration (as well as tuning, voicing, etc.) and mouthpiece refacing both belong to the people who have done a long apprenticeship and know how to do the work perfectly, that is, down to the most minute detail of adjustment required to make subtle music.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-07-23 13:33
I reckon I could have a go at hip replacement. It seems reasonably straight forward. I've watched a video of some of it. And I guess there is probably a manual somewhere on Ebay.
But experience tells me that at several points along the way I will suddenly and unexpectedly need specialist knowledge, skills, &/or equipment that I do not have.
But it takes a lot to kill a clarinet, so give it a go. That's how I became a technician.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-07-23 15:18
Gordon,
I need a knee replacement so when you are ready to experiment... LOL My dad was a physician and said I get the big bucks for knowing "what not to do."
I did replace a burner switch on a 30 year old Jenn-Air range just this AM (18 minutes from power off to power on). But I'm pretty adept at these things and the hardest part was ordering the right part since serial numbers change as well as nomenclature. Oh I forgot, it took some extra time as well because one of the panel screws was really stubborn.
What's my point? Getting the right part can stop you cold. While there is no problem getting electrically shocked repadding a clarinet, you can easily injure a finger with a screwdriver or spring and those cuts really hurt and can get infected very easily if not properly treated immediately.
But you know this stuff but for Ashley to experience this the first time, it can be a bit traumatic. I have watched my wife use a kitchen knife to cut things up. She is fine on vegetables but trying to use a knife to open something else is pretty scary to watch. I don't mean to gender bash in any way but as kids we always had a pocket knife and "knew what not to do."
So Ashley, if you are tool-savvy, give it a whirl but be cautious even around the smallest tool in your arsenal. And remember, an out-of-control screwdriver or pair of pliers can do a lot of damage.
HRL
PS I'd start on a Bundy. Buy two so you have one for parts. They are pretty much bullet-proof.
Post Edited (2008-07-23 20:20)
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Author: hans
Date: 2008-07-23 18:09
Re: "an out-of-control screwdriver or pair of pliers can do a lot of damage."... that's a very important message. Safety glasses should certainly be worn.
Hans
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-07-23 18:59
Thank you Gordon NZ.
Mario Andretti can drive a race car in a circle for hours at a very high rate of speed; he even won a race or two. However, when my transmission breaks down he is not the first person I go and talk to about diagnosing the problem even though he lives right down the street.
Driving a race car, designing one, and fixing one are three different occupations, a good driver might not have a clue how to fix the engine and the designer could never get that car up over 92mph.
Playing the clarinet at a high level of proficiency and repairing a clarinet are two completely different occupations and I'm REALLY tired of the typical "how hard could it be to schlep a few pads into a clarinet and overhaul it?" How hard is it to get to that first chair seat in the Philadelphia Orchestra? Heck, I could get a clarinet on E-bay and then buy a cool manual on how to play, after a few days I guess I should be ready to audition.
I have spent 40 years trying my best to diagnose problems with clarinets and then repairing them to a level where the customer is happy with the way it plays. It is NOT that easy, you need to be skilled with your hands in many ways and even more important you need to be a top-shelf trouble shooter and be able to identify problems and then be able to come up with intelligent solutions that work and work well. To top that all off, in order to have a clue that the clarinet is repaired correctly and test it (intonation is set as well as it can be, all of the alternate fingerings work properly...) you need to be a darn good player as well.
I could rant for another hour on this because I get hit with a terrific lack of respect for my trade and skill every day, I don't mind when a kid comes in and asks for an overhaul in one hour because he doesn't know any better but when I get pros in here demanding major work be done in one hour I get testy.
I would LOVE to see many more folks in this business and I will take on any apprentices but this doesn't seem to be a glory filled occupation so there are very few shops like mine here in PA. Not many have the touch or the skill to be a decent repair person but you will not learn to dance OR repair clarinets from a video or a book. Get a dance teacher to learn how to West coast swing and study with a pro to learn how to repad a clarinet and do it correctly so that it works when you're done.
Scott Brodt
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2008-07-23 21:13
I might have understood incorrectly this statement Quote:
I really can't afford that right now....
If you can't afford to take instrument to a tech, how can you afford buying one?
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-07-23 23:40
"If you can't afford to take instrument to a tech, how can you afford buying one?"
I wonder about that too.
As far as money goes... I think that to get started fixing a clarinet, assuming that it is in fair condition to begin with (playable, but not great or even good), you should need to spend about $500 US on tools and supplies. This is a very rough estimate. Keep in mind that most of the tools are things that can be used for years. In the long run, you will save money fixing your own instruments, but that is the LONG RUN.
I recommend a well equipped "repair kit" sold from various companies. When I started, I thought that they were a waste of money and I would not need all those tools, but looking back on it, I probably would have saved money on shipping if I had bought it all at once. You may not actually need all the tools in the kit for fixing a clarinet, but you will need most of them.
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-07-24 00:36
When you remove the pads and keys, be very careful of springs, especially if they are sharp. I have battle wounds from the springs on my buffets.
I am about to repad a clarinet for the first time also. If you check out musicmedic.com there is an article about how to size the pad correctly. i don't know wat the quality is like on their pads, but you can order from them also. They have many tools, and choices for cork also.
For all of you who keep saying that we need a repair tech, I'd like to emphasize that WE ARE DOING THIS FOR FUN AND TO LEARN.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-07-24 04:35
i honestly don't see why you need to spend $500 on a kit when all i honestly use are
needle nose plyers
screw driver
lighter
spring hook
spring bender
rags
Needle pointer
Cost: $40
Other accessories
Pads. ($20)
Amber shellac (can be picked up from home depot)
Wd-40 for stuck parts
that's prettty much it.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-07-24 05:17
My figure includes tools for doing common mechanical work like straightening screws, swedging keys, bending keys, and installing springs (just a good hammar and anvil is about $40).
But yes, if you should be lucky enough tn meet an instrument that has no mechanical problems, the tools you mentioned can be enough.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-07-24 12:18
"i honestly don't see why you need to spend $500 on a kit when all i honestly use are.."
Sure, I do flutes and saxes too, and even a few oboes, piccolos and bassoons, but now I am mystified why if my place burnt down I would need about $30000 to replace what I would want to replace. That is equipment. (Stock is a fair bit more than than that )
But if you buy a late mordel Yamaha, and repad it, then you should not need much gear. It's those restorations of so-called "vintage" that have cans of worms around every corner. They should attract a surcharge, but that would put them in the same category as restoring neglected vintage cars - uneconomical - works of love.
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Author: time2walkthedog
Date: 2008-07-24 15:43
Hi -
I'd say try it. Here is my story. I have a son who a few years ago said he wanted to play clarinet (he was 10). I play in a community band on a decent wood clarinet, but my old bundy (I got it used in the early 1970's) was sitting around in my parents house. It did not play at all. I figured I'd have little to lose by trying to repad it myself and a lot to gain. Over a summer I replaced every single pad, a few at a time. After the last pad was replaced I confess to being pretty suprised that it played -- and it played pretty well at that (I certainly did not want to give my son an instrument that would discourage him because of mechanical issues... ) After a year, we brought it to a repair person for some adjustments (a spring... and he redid a few of the pads)... Now my son's moved on to saxophone ('way cooler mom'), but I've got a decent spare instrument which is not a bad thing too. I also would not panic any more if a pad needs replacement. I'm lucky to have found a great repair person... but it nice to be able to do some of this stuff myself as well...even if just to hold me over until I can get the job done right... good luck
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-07-24 15:57
Know the trade so that you can at least maintain your own instrument to a degree. there is a huge difference between pro work, and diy work. but when you put alot of time into your work, it matches the quality, however the time it takes you to do one thing, make take a pro 8 minutes.
always good to know how instruments function
and the tools i mentioned were for clarinets where i have found that they are the stupid easiest instruments to fix. flutes require balancing, oboes.......... don't even go there. saxes (haven't done one yet) and bassoons are straightforward with bigger parts, but you'll need bigger pads and all that good stuff.
good luck
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-07-25 01:17
Padding any wind instrument properly is an art in itself. A great repair person is to be cherished and thanked beyond belief. Clarinets are very hard to get right and require a tech with a great sense of feel as well as knowledge about how the instrument should play and work. Spring tension alone can wreck a fine clarinet..so pads are even more difficult not only to adjust but also set so as to get the best sound from a clarinet.
I will also add there are many hacks out there who can mangle up a truly fine clarinet too..but I will leave those comments till later. Aaaarghhh...
David Dow
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-07-25 16:20
"... flutes require balancing..."
Meaning?
"... oboes.......... don't even go there..."
Actually, in some ways well-made oboes are relatively straightforward to work on, because so many things that need adjusting have adjusting screws. And for most of the oboe, keys are so rigid that flexing of metal is not an issue.
".. saxes (haven't done one yet) and bassoons are straightforward with bigger parts, but you'll need bigger pads and all that good stuff.."
In some ways saxes are a lot more tricky than other woodwinds, because flexing of metal is a big issue, affecting many adjustments. I suppose that is because they are made very flimsy in order to keep the weight down."
Bassoons have many keys, but relatively simple, undemanding linkages. however tone holes are often far from level, especially where one pad covers three tone holes at once.
Wooden and plastic instruments have the complication of significant movement of the material - plastic from temperature, and timber from moisture content. This is quite a big deal when trying to get pivots accurate in a larger instrument.
Venting is not much of an issue with flutes, but a technician really needs to be a reasonable clarinet player to attend well to venting when adjusting clarinets.
But probably the worst instrument to adjust is the hand-made flute which has no adjusting screws. How absurd! It just means that certain adjustments can take hundreds of times longer, and offers the unreliability of little critical scraps of paper etc possibly falling off the keys in what is likely to be an oily environment that tends to release the glue.
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