 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-05-07 20:26
Nothing surprising on the list, can't wait to get all the gossip though...
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-05-07 22:32
Asking for the Le Coq d'Or, cadenza is a bit of a surprise. Just like Scheherazade, I can't even remember the last time I heard an orchestra play that piece.
I realize that you can't ask for everything, but I expected to see one (or all) of the following:
Bartok - Concerto for Orchestra
Borodin - Polovetsian Dances
Rossini - Semiramis
...GBK
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-05-07 22:52
That's funny, the Semiramidi, I mean. In all the auditions I have taken, I have never seen it on a list.
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-05-07 22:54
Page one:
"It is assumed that any applicant for this position will accept employment with
the New York Philharmonic, if it is offered. If you do not intend to accept
employment with the New York Philharmonic, please do not participate in this
audition process."
I like it =p.
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-05-07 23:01
This board reaches far and wide... I believe Greg Raden is on here and I don't see why he wouldn't give it a shot!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-05-07 23:07
Keith P wrote:
> "...Page one:
> "It is assumed that any applicant for this position
> will accept employment with the New York Philharmonic,
> if it is offered. If you do not intend to accept
> employment with the New York Philharmonic,
> please do not participate in this
> audition process."
Also known as the "Ricardo Morales clause" ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-05-08 00:26
I have the pack the NY Phil sent out and it quite intense, I'm still trying to decide if i've got the time to do the audition cd. I figure you have to have a go at every opportunity, you never know. I think I'll fax the confirmation letter tomorrow. Do you think I should go for it?
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-05-08 00:32
cigleris wrote:
> Do you think I should go for it?
In the words of J. Pierpont Morgan - "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it."
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2008-05-08 01:07
do they allow the public to sit in and listen to the auditions ?
they could probably sell tickets
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-05-08 02:00
...Oh yeah! They just hold up a "silence" sign...and then someone takes a picture during the middle of Tiger's backswing...
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-05-08 02:14
If the NY Philharmonic tunes to 442(good for me have to pull every section of my clarinet out to tune to 440 even with 660mm barrel) and their Grand piano is tuned to 442 are also all the pianos in Julliard university and other halls in New York also tuned to 442 ?
I'm also surprised to see Rachmaninoff Symphony 2 3rd movement(or even any of his Symphonies) nothing else really suprise me. I supposed that Brahms symphonies and Schubert and Tchaikovsky and maybe even Beethoven symphonies are more for Solo auditions rather than 2nd/e-flat or 3rd/bass auditions.
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Author: brycon
Date: 2008-05-08 02:18
The Met tunes to 440, NY Phil to 442, and Juilliard splits the difference at 441.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-05-08 02:37
cigleris:
A wise man recently wrote to me regarding auditioning for something that may be out of my league:
"being worried that an orchestra is out of one's league is just as useless as being worried that certain girls are out of one's league. Who cares? Just pursue and see what happens."
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
Post Edited (2008-05-08 02:54)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-08 02:47
Um... How can anyone be surprised at Rachmaninov 2 being on the list? That was almost as sure a bet as anything.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-05-08 02:58
I'm very surprised that Rachmaninov #2 is on the list even though it's an Solo audition. Rachmaninov symphonies are not very often played and way far from being the best from him. It's too much sugar specially the 2nd symphony.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-08 03:08
The 2nd Symphony is a regular standard in concert halls in this country. It is performed more than any of his works except for the 2nd Piano Concerto and has been core audition repertoire for clarinetists for years.
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Author: vin
Date: 2008-05-08 03:41
J.J. is right. I don't know about Europe, but in the U.S. Rachmaninov 2 is on the majority of auditions. There is no surprise there.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-05-08 04:06
This Symphony has been played here in Iceland I think one or two times since 1950 and in the book Orchester Probespiel edited by Heinz Hepp and Albert Rohde and publised by Edition Peters and was a project initiated at the behest of the German Music Council and the German conservatories and based on studies carried out by the German Union of Orchestras. This collection focuses on the material commonly used in auditions.
This Excerpt is not in this book and my teacher said that this book didn't miss any important excerpts that you should go through before audition although you should study for example all the volumes of Orchestral Excerpts from International music company.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-08 04:38
At the risk of sounding insensitive, I think you may be illustrating the irrelevance of the classical and/or clarinet scene in Iceland, at least as to how it relates to major, mainstream U.S. orchestras.
Last I checked, excerpt books weren't legitimate criteria for determining core repertoire.
Furthermore, on a purely aesthetic level, I'm not sure how if you know the symphony and that movement you could consider it a surprise. It is nothing short of one of the biggest solos in the repertoire.
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Author: rgames
Date: 2008-05-08 05:01
I like the fact that they request a Neumann mic...!
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-05-08 06:05
The Rachmaninov has been asked for in auditions I've taken part in in England, France, Holland and Switzerland. I really think it has been overlooked by the people who put your excerpt book together.
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-05-08 12:02
Rach 2 is being performed here in England on 15 May and twice by the same orchestra on 20/21 September (the latter probably featuring Andrew Marriner). It strikes me as so commonly performed as to be hackneyed.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-05-08 12:22
The Probespiel is a great book, but not a substitute for the full parts and scores. Across the pond, the core repertoire for auditions isn't exactly the same as it is here. Also, the Probespiel (for all orchestral instruments, not just clarinet) was compiled based on consultation with the orchestras and conservatories in Germany. It's not quite the same as the American books which are usually one person's findings. In some instances, they are also very dated... It is very important to have this book as a reference if you are preparing for auditions in the EU.
In fact, the World Orchestra of Jeunesses Musicales specifies that excerpts for their auditions are found in the Probespiel.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-05-08 14:58
All the audition repertoire for the NY Phil is standard over here to. I really don't know what Iceland clarinet means when he says that Rach 2 is not standard, it's one of the hardest solos in the repertoire. If memory serves me correctly it is in one of the 8 Drucker excerpt books.
I will go for this audition and decide, if im chosen for the semi finals, to go to NYC and do it, they are not untill October.
Thanks for your comment Mark even though i'm not sure how to take it.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-05-08 15:24
Rocky 2, as my students refer to it, is on most of the audition lists I’ve seen. It’s also in most of the excerpt books I own, and I own all of the standard ones. In any case, this is all standard rep. There’s nothing surprising here except that’s there’s nothing out of the ordinary. They will only choose a handful of the pieces to have played in the preliminaries anyway.
Since I know all the repertoire I think I’ll audition for this one. After all, I am a NY native and was told I was the runner up for the bass clarinet job 44 years ago. Oh, I guess that makes me a bit to old. Can they deny me the job because of my age? ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2008-05-08 17:32
Peter, I was umming and ahhing much like yourself, I'm out of action at present though with a bad wrist and won't be back to form by the time the CD is due, so that made the decision for me.
Go for it I say...what have you got to lose?
Iceland, again your responses on this thread illustrate just how much you need to broaden your horizons. I think every orchestral audition I've ever done has Rach 2 on the list, I'm more surprised when I don't see it.
Are the NYP sending out copies of the required extracts or leaving you to find/assuming you have your own? The LSO bass audition booklet (roughly 100 pages) is a brilliant resource, it was worth applying just to get that.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-05-08 19:43
Danny Boy -
Is the LSO booklet on line, or a hard copy?
Ken Shaw
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2008-05-08 20:19
They emailed it to me as a PDF Ken. It looks like photocopies of parts and extract books to me...I have no idea how this stands on the copyright front.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-05-08 21:18
I wonder how much Neumann mikes go for these days? I don't think I know of too many people who would lend me one!!!
http://www.stevesmusic.com/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=168
David Dow
Post Edited (2008-05-08 21:19)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-05-08 21:47
David -
If you can get to NYC, I'll lend you my Neumann 84s, which are the immediate predecessors of the 184s. They are amazing mics. As I understand it, the 184 is a minor upgrade from the 84.
The 184 sells for $759 at the Steves Music site. The 140 goes for around $1500, but it's a stereo pair.
They really do make a difference. I tried out a top of the line one-piece Sony, at around $500, with our quintet, and you could hear each player's distinctive way of producing a sound. The flutist then set up his 84s, and with them you could tell which of us was inhaling. Of course, you need two, plus a power supply, cables and a stand, so figure at least $2K plus a recorder.
For that money, you could probably rent a studio for a day, with equipment and an engineer. Where is Ben Maas these days?
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-05-09 00:09
How many times do they need to tell us that they tune to 442!!??
I once heard that statisticaly you have a better chance of making an NBA basketball team than making a spot in an Orchestra.
Makes me want to try even harder!
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
Post Edited (2008-05-09 01:58)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-05-09 00:49
I don't have to agree but I think that there are more important excerpts to choose from than the Rachmaninov. And I will never say that you shouldn't learn this excerpt but I think there are more important excerpts to have in an audition.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-09 02:39
I don't. At least nothing that isn't already on the list.
At any rate, his audition will be won by someone from a very small group of candidates. If there's any doubt in one's mind, it isn't worth the expense if you have to travel for it. That's just the way it is.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-05-10 02:13
I just set up my pair of KM184s and played two rose Etudes, basic ORTF set up into my small Mackie mixer and right into my MAC. Nice Mics for clarinet, I usually use a set of Shure 300 ribbons, but felt like checking out these mics on clarinet. I was pleasantly surprised. Here are the URLs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkHA8v4tfhI&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIoi_dlB3vA&feature=user
Tom Puwalski
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-05-10 16:53
I heard or read someplace a few years ago (or many) Ricardo Morales auditioned for a place in the Cinncinati orchestra and didn't make the first cut. Then less than a month later went to NY auditioned and was hired as principle by the Met Opera!
Anyone know if there's any truth in this? Idle, curious minds got to know!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2008-05-10 23:43
Regarding Riccardo and Cincinatti, I heard that he got a permission slip from his first grade teacher to miss school and attend the audition but only got to the finals and was back in class before recess. Total loser.
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2008-05-11 08:56
It also needs to be remembered that getting an orchestral position is not all about playing. Like any other job your face and personality have to fit.
You can be the best player in human history, if those in the section don't like you you won't get the job.
Fortunately that works the other way round as well, it means that some of us who aren't international superstars still have the chance of getting work!
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2008-05-12 00:00
A clarification:
My previous post was intended in humor. Riccardo was most likely a good deal younger than the competition in Cincinatti.
As far as I am concerned, for the top jobs in the world such as principal NYPO, there are really only two Big Money First Round Draft Choice players in the world: Riccardo and Carbonare. Cuper is also very impressive.
But there's always room at the top of the mountain for a new face though the air is thin and many die on the way up or turn around.
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Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2008-05-12 01:15
Considering the situation, Nuccio, in my opinion, would have a better chance than Carbonare, seeing as he is assistant right now. You can say what you want about that not be a factor, but it will have some affect on the decision. Plus, I like Nuccio playing better....
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Author: clarinetwoman
Date: 2008-05-12 01:58
I havent heard Rusinek. But I know first hand that GREG RADEN is a really good player. NEVER misses............
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2008-05-12 04:59
"Re: NY Philharmonic Principal clarinet audition repertoire"
Is it not selling the work of all these extremely talented players short to pit them against each other? So one of us can be right because we "bet on the right horse"? What do we gain by speculating to this degree, on a thread that wasn't even ill-intended?
To doubt someone who has played Principal with the BPO and for quite a while with ONF and won many major prizes is just insulting, but I bet he doesn't even care. He's the world-class player that gets to perform Mozart under Abbado etc.
The fact is, he might not get to the finals, but is that because he's any less of a player than the person who does? I don't think it serves us at all to make judgement calls- the NYPO has quite enough of their own judges (who all have better ears than we do!).
It's fun to speculate in a lot of situations, but I think it gets out of hand when we stop suggesting names and start trying to eliminate people before the first round of eliminations takes place. All someone did was suggest him, why shoot Carbonare down instead of just adding your names to the batch?
Mr. Sanford Casey said it well, I think. It's not about your playing 'level' in that circle, it's about style. They've all won big jobs, of the people suggested so far, so I think on a good day any of them could get it, provided style was not a factor. I think one of the highest level skills a musician can master is to know what some people will be looking for on a panel and exactly how to adapt to it.
Bradley
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-05-12 11:34
Bradley, style is a factor...
He's a really good/great, etc. player, but is his style what they will be looking for? Other posting had only him and Ricardo being the 2 which I disagree with.
Time will tell
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-05-12 12:12)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2008-05-12 14:20
I've had the pleasure of having Mike Rusinek and Greg Raden as my colleagues in the National Symphony clarinet section. Also I have played a couple of concerts since my retirement where Gene Mondie was playing principal clarinet (including Pines of Rome). Let's just say that I think that all of the three are "world-class" players who would enhance any orchestra lucky enough to have them.
Interestingly enough, when Mike Rusinek won the NSO assistant principal job in 1992 the runner-up was a very young Ricardo Morales! Mike got the job, playing being adjudged substantially equal, primarily because we felt that his (Buffet- at that time) sound blended better with the NSO section than Ricardo's (Leblanc).
Gene Mondie, then playing in the Spokane Symphony, was runner-up in a subsequent NSO audition prior to winning his present position in 2000, replacing Greg Raden (who had just scored the Dallas principal chair).
David Blumberg's assertion that Ricardo lost out on an audition because "he was too good to be a back-up player" most certainly did not refer to his NSO audition. Thank goodness we never had that kind of politics in my Orchestra!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-05-12 14:59
Nope, wasn't the National symphony Audition. I deleted the posting as it doesn't serve any good since I won't go public with who/what.
Point of it was that players can be great, possibly the best there, but not get the job for other factors.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-05-13 23:07)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-05-12 15:06
Some of these posts have gotten silly, others very intelligent. All the names mentioned above are fine players and anyone of them, on a given day, can beat out any of the others. Then there are many other fine players that we haven’t even heard of that might surprise us. Did anyone think a young Ricardo Morales would be principal of the Met at his young age. How many even knew anything about him when he won the job? I think the only one’s that knew how good he was at that time were the teachers and players he had worked with. The only thing I’d bet on for both the NY Phil and Chicago job is that the winners of both will be fine players. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-05-12 15:42
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Nope, wasn't NAtional symphony
If you can't name names then don't post. Otherwise it is unsubstantiated (and reflects poorly on the poster) rumor.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-12 18:10
From the start, this thread has pretty much just been for fun. For anyone to take seriously anything written on here is a problem with the interpreter, not the thread and the discussion.
Alessandro Carbonare is my favorite clarinetist on the planet. Still, I see no reason why he'd be considered. He was invited to, but turned down, an audition for Chicago. Unless something changes, I'd leave him out of this discussion.
Although I'm intensely curious myself, I have to agree with Mark about not posting the claim about Ricardo and his past audition. I've seen you write this many times here, David, and always questioned the story's veracity. Perhaps someone did tell you that, perhaps they didn't. Perhaps they weren't entirely truthful or perhaps you took the comment too strongly. Either way, it's just unsubstantiated without a name attached.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-05-12 18:12
I am currently listening to a Naxos CD of the Stamitz concertos, I am adding Kalman Berkes to the list
More seriously, is it like the CSO audition where current NYPO players and special guests are directly invited to the finals?
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Keith P
Date: 2008-05-13 02:27
Sylvain:
I was told today that Burt Hara and Ricardo Morales were invited to play for them without having to send in a CD. Perhaps Mr. Blumberg can verify Ricardo's side in this?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-05-13 12:46
I wouldn't get involved that way.
If either of them did, they certainly deserved it in my opinion. If there were 10 invitations that way it's fine with me too for the most highly qualified players.
Of course there's the "what determines a highly qualified player", but that's fairly obvious.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-05-13 16:59
Inviting a small number of candidates to play advanced rounds is standard procedure for every instrument in every major orchestra in the USA.
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Author: r13champ
Date: 2008-05-13 22:37
Threads like this unfortunately moved away from its original intention, and instead induced subjective criticism and opinions.
I don't blame those who bashed Dave for writing "ubstantiated" posts. This thread shouldn't have been more than 10 posts. However, threads like this one are usually the center of conversation between those not involved in the actual audition.
Post Edited (2008-05-13 22:39)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-05-13 23:52
[ Let's try and steer this thread back to its original topic - a discussion of the audition repertoire. A guessing game of possible candidates and their abilities serves no purpose - GBK ]
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Author: hartt
Date: 2008-05-14 00:51
......." possible candidates and their abilities ".......Correct.
let's play enee menee minee mo........
red light, green light.......
yada yada yada, who gives a c___.
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Author: crazy karlos
Date: 2008-05-14 11:04
larryb wrote:
"I didn't realize until now that they tune to A=442."
Must be an "advanced beginner" orchestra on the Buffet-Crampon scale.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-05-14 20:34
David wrote: "style is a factor... He's a really good/great, etc. player, but is his style what they will be looking for?"
David- how would you describe the difference in style of Carbonare's playing compared with what they would be looking for at this audition?
I wonder how many tapes get sent for this kind of audition?
Post Edited (2008-05-14 20:35)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-05-15 21:27
Attachment: repertoirelist.eng.doc (27k)
Here's the audition list for the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra principal audition to be held this June.
Iceland Clarinet might be interested to see that they have also asked for Rachmaninov 2nd Symphony!
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-05-15 21:55
Quite interesting that they ask also solo repertoire stuff (debussy and brahms sonata!). I heard this common in european orchestras?
I also haven't seen the heldenleben
The rest is very standard repertoire...
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2008-06-06 03:39
I hope Mr. Palanker Wins NY...What an inspirational clarinetist. Who Btw plays every clarinet professionally with the Baltimore Symphony.
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The Clarinet Pages
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