 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-04-14 16:49
Later in the year I will finally get a chance to perform Brahms #3, one of my all time favorite symphonies and am wondering whether to start the 1st movement playing it transposed on the A clarinet.
The short clarinet exposed passage at measure 26 certainly lies a bit nicer on the A clarinet, and the famous solo at measure 35 (key change 9/4 time) is already written for clarinet in A.
If one starts the piece on Bb clarinet, the switch before measure 35 is only 3 measures to a cold A clarinet, coming in on a written throat G.
Anyone play the symphony recently?
...GBK
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Author: vin
Date: 2008-04-14 18:57
Play it on the A (for all those reasons). You'll feel more comfortable.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-04-14 19:34
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Just don't tell Dan L........ 
Then I guess I shouldn't tell him about the past 2 weekends when I performed Carmen and played the Entr'acte to Act II on A clarinet (instead of Bb) and the Entr'acte to Act IV on Bb clarinet (instead on A)
In those cases, both changes were necessitated by ease of fingering and trills ...GBK
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-04-14 20:45
Yeah, but if the conductor is doing the repeat then things will get very difficult. You may want to have the second clarinetist fill in a little to facilitate the switch. That would work. Remember that after the solo there is a switch back to Bb.
David
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-14 21:40
Gbk - Tony G. once played it the way you did (Carmen) and started out ok, then right in the middle of the solo forgot that he was transposing and really killed it. He got done with it and put his head down in the stand and started laughing. Looked up at Mehta who was conducting and Mehta had a look like "hey, it happens...."
I wasn't at that concert, he told me about it.
Was the solo with the f sharp to g sharp trill. He did fine upto and including the trill, it was after the trill that he killed it. Was sometime in the early 1980's at the summer dell series so there wasn't anyone looking from above closeby.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-04-14 22:51)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-04-14 22:28
This reminds me of a story that my teacher told me ones. A clarinetist was playing a solo in the symphony and the conductor stoped and asked if he was playing it on a Bb clarinet and the clarinetist said pretty embaressed "eh yes" and the conductor said " I want it to be played on a A clarinet as written". Then the clarinetist took the clarinet under the music stand and pulled out the barrel and puted it back on the Bb clarinet and began to play again. And the conductor said "Ah much better".
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-04-15 00:07
Hey, GBK, if anyone you-tubes the concert, how about posting the link? I love the Brahms 3, how nice that you're getting to play it.
So what's the consensus on Dave's point about the later switch to Bb? Does one play the mvt the usual way (switching clarinets) or ALL on Bb? or ALL on A?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-04-15 02:12
It's usually done on the A clarinet. If the repeat is good there is enough time in the 3 bars rest to switch back to the A again since you already changed to the Bb by that time. Besides, the first few bars are tutti so you can even change back there and not be missed. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-04-15 03:07
It always seemed silly to me to use the A clarinet for the 32 bars or so that it's called for throughout the entire symphony. My solution was to transpose the A clarinet passages for Bb clarinet. Although you'll find yourself in "unpleasant" keys, it's an option to solve the troubles of playing these exposed passages on a cold instrument.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-04-15 03:17
Chris -
Are you aware that Brahms originally had the entire 1st movement scored for Bb clarinet, but changed his mind and scored the solo at measure 35 for the A clarinet prior to initial publication?
Something or someone made Brahms change his mind to finally decide on using the A clarinet for the big 1st movement solo(s).
...GBK
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Author: John25
Date: 2008-04-15 18:01
The last time I played Brahms 3, I transposed he A-clarinet part and played it on the Bb for the rehearsal. I then decided that it was awkward and didn't sound really fluent, so in the performance I put a slightly smaller barrel on the A, with another mouthpiece (which nearly matched my usual one on the Bb). So I had two complete clarinets, and the quick change was made easier than changing barrels, etc. I've never had to do this anywhere else.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-04-15 18:41
Well, it had occurred to ME a while back, after playing the Brahms in a rehearsal, that the sane, relaxed thing to do would be to play the whole movement on Bb. Sure, the A section would sound awkward at first (being in B major and all), but make it a part of daily practice and over time, it should smooth out (sort of like "flipping" between thumb F and F# if you're not that used to it).
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-15 19:02
If you played that opening Brahms #3 solo on Bb you might be able to get it perfectly smooth, but it would be noticed by a Clarinet player with a very good ear no matter how well it was played - played by anyone.
If you care to post both solos I'd be willing to give it a shot to hear immediately which was which.
Just playing the first 5 seconds would do it. Not that a conductor would notice, possibly not, but pretty easy for a Clarinetist to hear.
On the German system, I have no idea if I'd catch it or not. I don't know the system well enough to catch the timbre of some of the notes.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-04-15 19:08)
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-04-15 21:13
Dave--I figure I'll have it all smoothed out in ... uh, 10 years or so. Can I get back to you with those samples?
(which is another way of saying, I take your point!)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-04-15 22:21
Doug, it's not even you, it's anyone even if *&&**X# played it - would pick it up right away, unless it's on a German System, but even that would be obvious from Bb to B natural.
So the question would be "does it really matter?"
I think that pieces written by a composer who really knows the Clarinet the key used is due to how it lays timbre wise on the instrument. A Bb Scale sounds quite different from a B natural scale timbre wise. A "C" scale on the A Clarinet would sound quite different than a "B" scale on the Bb Clarinet no matter who plays it - the pitch is the same, but not the timbre.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: diz
Date: 2008-04-17 05:02
Brahms certain knew how to write for the clarinet, symphonically and chamber wise
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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