 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2008-01-08 16:09
Who caught the concert last night on PBS Great Performance (I think?)? I only caught 10 minutes of it towards the end, what was the program?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-01-08 16:39
The entire program was the Malher 9th. The orchestra was amazing, but I was less impressed by Rattle, who spent a lot of time vaguely waving his baton out of synch with the music. Also, his general interpretation was too heavy. Of course it's Mahler, but a ländler needs some lightness, and this was a brontosaurus dance.
Didn't care much for the camerawork, either -- all violins, harp, trumpets and horns, and no clarinets, even during the many solos.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-01-08 18:35
Good comments, Ken, I caught quite a bit of it in the "dead times" of the Football game. Yes, the conducting "rattled" me a lot, and the pauses between ?downbeat? and orch response made me think that the C M was actually doing the conducting, and R was only applying expression by his actions and stick. I sure dont know/understand Mahler, but, IMHO, some parts-movements were great and others poor-noise. Did see bits of cl, oboe, flute, bassoon work which impressed me, except for their movements. It was a Great perf. , but too diff from ours. Comments? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dgclarinet
Date: 2008-01-08 19:05
Not sure if this affected anyone's view of the performance, but the picture and sound were about a half second off on the channels in Atlanta. That made for some really confusing moments.
I'm a big Rattle fan, and thought the Mahler was wonderful. The orchestra was incredible, and I loved the close up shots of the musicians (I saw a lot of clarinet shots...don't remember their names off the top of my head, but the Eb player is one of my favorites). They actually looked like they were having fun (kind of unusual these days in some orchestras).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2008-01-08 19:24
I kept hoping to see bass clarinet in action but no luck... Same with contrabassoon.
There was an aweful lot of shots of the string bass players though.
"Guess what?! I got a fever, and the only prescription... is more bass clarinet!"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: marzi
Date: 2008-01-09 02:51
I just plain couldn't stand watching it, maybe i was too full of all the previous concerts and operas i had watched around New years. To me watching all his conducting was very annoying, but i guess not to all the orchestras he's conducted.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-01-09 14:52
Like you B H, I was looking for bass cl playing, and saw only one brief shot of a ?bass- contra?. It had greater neck curvature than my Selmer [low Eb], or a nice low C Buffet, on inexpensive sale !, at Larson Music in OK City. Since the Berlin BC was prob. a German made, can anyone tell us about it ?? Hammerschmidt [sp?] . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kevin
Date: 2008-01-09 20:54
The orchestra was amazing, but the conductor left much to be desired?
Please.
The conductor's job is to let the orchestra be amazing. This just seems to be complaining for the sake of complaining, e.g., complaining about a basketball coach's performance while his team wins the championship game.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-01-10 01:07
Rattle in Mahler is a no go..however, maybe in the future this may imrove. Right now he rates at the bottom of Mahler interpreters. His 5th stinks.
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vin
Date: 2008-01-10 03:01
David-
Why do you think it stinks? Have you heard any of his previous Mahler recordings (with Birmingham) and do you think it is equally bad?
Just curious.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-01-10 10:23
Simon Rattle is by far a greater musician than anyone bashing his name on this board!
Talk about personal opinion!
Chris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-01-10 11:37
Having had the pleasure to play Sibelius 2 with him while at the Birmingham Conservatoire I can quite honestly say he is amazing.
His Mahler recordings with the CBSO are some of the best around. His Mahler 2nd Symphony is mind blowing as is the 7th. I must also point out that all those recording are live as are nearly all his records for EMI with the CBSO at the time. Their legacy is that of Previn and the LSO.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-01-10 13:16
I gave up on watching this broadcast within a few minutes, because on my Cox Cable connection here in Northern Virginia, we had a serious synchronization mess. The audio came through a full second behind the video, as became apparent right away when the violinists bowed distractingly far ahead of the sound. The TV sound isn't good enough for me to want to listen without watching: The whole point of catching a concert on TV is to be able to see it and hear it at the same time. I've noticed a lot more problems with synchronization on channels that never had this problem before, since converting my cable signal to high definition. (I'm also seeing a lot of new picture-formatting problems, apparently due to incompatibility between the production formats and the broadcast formats: switching between channels, I constantly have to mess around with the wide screen, zoom, "Normal" and other options on the remote.)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-01-10 14:28
His Mahler recordings have not compared favorably with other conductors who have ventured in this arena. His recordings in England with CBSO are quite good ...but there have been some bad records as well. His Daphnis is dull and listless...
As to his Sibelius I think he excels in this repetoire far better. However, this does not mean he will not become a great Mahler conductor. His orchestra and him in this reptoire seem to be on different levels of communication. His Mahler 8 is quite bad. Dull in Birmingham as well...simply listen to Chailly in the Finale and you will get the gist of how intense this music can become.
I think Rattle is very good but in an age where there are few truly great conductors about he is definitely the better of an average lot. HIs Mahler 2 is quite nice I will agree ...
but the Berlin 5th has ensemble problems through the entire first 2 movements.
Mahler conductors are a breed apart and this is truly tough repetoire when you consider the great Mahler conductors there are.
the Berlin emi recordings I have are of Sir Simon
Maher 5, which seems to have trumpet and orchestra out of sync
Mahler 10 which is quite good
Mahler 8 CBSO which is boring
Mahler recordings I have
Bernard Haitink, Ricardo Chailly, Leonard Bernstein, Dmitri Mitropoulous,
Bruno Walter, Otto Klemperer, Rafael Kubelik, Karajan, Sir Georg Solti, etc.
I have Mahler cycles with Bernstein(NY), Kubelik, Chailly and Haitink and can say I do have a reference point having been listening for 30 years to Mahler seriously.
David Dow
Post Edited (2008-01-10 14:34)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2008-01-10 16:38
David, are there 2 recordings with Bernstein? I've always wanted to get one of them, which is better in your opinion? Thanks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dgclarinet
Date: 2008-01-10 16:40
Sounds like Lelia had the same out of sync problem that I had. I guess it was a PBS problem.
As far as Rattle, we all have our favorites...this is like asking 100 clarinet players who the greatest clarinet player of all time was...you'll get 103 different names. Rattle happens to be one of my favorite conductors alive today. I've heard his Mahler conducting live several times and he gives me what I want. Does he compare to Walter or Bernstein or Klemperer? That's another question, but none of those guys are around today, so if you like Mahler, Rattle live is not a bad way to go. The fact that he has a great orchestra like Berlin (and Birmingham while he was there) playing for him doesn't hurt anything.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: J. J.
Date: 2008-01-10 19:30
Interesting that the criticism of Rattle is always directed at his interpretation, rather than the playing of the ensemble. One thing that is drastically overlooked in recordings is the character of the orchestra playing. Most professional orchestra musicians would agree that the single greatest determining factor in the success of a performance is the orchestra and not the conductor.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-01-10 19:33
J. J. wrote:
> Most professional
> orchestra musicians would agree that the single greatest
> determining factor in the success of a performance is the
> orchestra and not the conductor.
Which of course, implies that a great orchestra with a bad conductor would produce good (maybe not great) music irregardless.
I've a contrary opinion on that ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-01-10 21:58
Important conductors impress their personalities on an orchestra without rehearsal or pyrotechnics. Beecham and Stokowski were famous for producing their own sounds just by being there.
While the Berlin Philharmonic played extremely well in the telecast, and I'm sure a lot of it was due to Rattle, I just didn't hear a coherent conception of the Mahler 9th. I thought the first movement was a mess of unconnected chunks, and the ländler movement was clumsy and brutal. I tuned away a couple of minutes into the ländler.
Whatever you say about Bernstein (and who doesn't?), his Mahler performances held together, and were recognizably "Lennie." I was looking for something recognizably "Rattle," but didn't hear it.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
