 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-07 14:44
Attachment: Buffet 714L logo.JPG (149k)
Attachment: Buffet 714L.JPG (146k)
Can anyone give me some more info about the older Buffet clarinets? I recently received from a friend two pieces of a B flat clarinet. Here's what I know so far.
This is in the oval:
Buffet
Crampion & Cie
A Paris
Above the Buffet Oval is a "B" and underneath that is a huge "U" symbol
then it has the oval stuff
Then underneath the oval is what looks to be huge cursive "B" and under that is what looks like Brevette or Prevett and under that are some initals possibly GOVD O (not sure) and then under all that is an "H"
The serial number on the bottom section is 714L. All the serial number lists I've seen show that series as 1898.
I kind of assumed it was a Evette but after seeing picture of the other Evettes with it in the oval. I'm thinking mine is not an Evette.
It does have the register key that curves around to the top of the first piece. Which I've seen in pictures of older instruments.
I'll try to send an attachment.
I'm in need of a older barrel and bell to match these two pieces. Plus some help on where to get a pad for the "doughnut key".
Thanks,
LeePal
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-09-07 15:04
It's got the 'Doughnut key' for LH 2 - I haven't seen these for years.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2007-09-07 15:04)
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Author: Ski
Date: 2007-09-07 15:46
Chris,
Can you explain the purpose & design of the doughnut key? Wait. I can guess the purpose... to play a... D! ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) But why the doughnut design?
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-09-07 16:35
It's not an Evette, definitely a pro Buffet, but it's REALLY OLD, like 1898 or therabouts. It may also be a High Pitch instrument which would play really sharp by today's standards.
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-07 17:07
If it actually is a 1898 or so it sure is in good condition for something that old. Is there any markings or certain key that might let me know if it is actually a high pitch instrument that you know of? I'd assume possibly the H but like in cases of low pitch they have LP shouldn't this have HP?
Also, if it might play real sharp then which way do I need to go with a barrel - 65mm or 68mm?
Thanks for your input.
LeePal
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-09-07 17:12
I'm not entirely sure what the doughnut key was for (maybe to help the tuning when playing forked Eb or Bb - xox|ooo), but it's best to fit a cork pad in the doughnut rather than a skin or leather pad with the centre punched out.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2007-09-07 17:19
If High Pitch, then I assume you mean A=456/7 sort of high pitch rather than the higher A=443 as opposed to A=440
If it is high pitched, it understand it is made to be in tune with itself, with tone holes placed to play at that pitch, and a different barrel will not resolve it to today's standard pitch and allow it play in tune with itself up and down the range
Chris
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Author: susieray
Date: 2007-09-07 17:27
If you have a modern Bb clarinet, you can compare the length of the bodies side by side; if the older one is High Pitch, it will be quite a bit shorter.
A longer barrel would not be enough to get it to play in tune.....it would be closer to a B natural instrument instead of Bb so it would be like comparing a Bb clarinet with an A. The tone holes are spaced differently and you can't change that by using a longer barrel.
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-07 17:51
Yes, it is shorter by an inch to both of my Pruefer b flat clarinets.
Thanks for that info.
LeePal
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-09-07 17:54
The 'U' shape above the oval is a lyre, and below it are the letters 'BC' intertwined. This is standard, and part of the Buffet logo.
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/
The 'B' could signify it's a Bb clarinet, and the 'H' could mean high pitch.
Though 'H' is B natural in German notation as in BACH (Bb,A,C,B - as used by Bach no less) and D.SCH (D,Eb(Es in German),C,B - Shostakovitch used his German-spelt initials in his 6th symphony) so it could be a B natural clarinet - a set of old Buffet soprano clarinets from A to Eb went on sale on ebay a while back - that was a set of A, Bb, B, C, Db, D and Eb clarinets all in the one case!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-07 18:18
Thanks - I do see the lyre as the U and the BC intertwined - wonderful!
LeePal
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-09-07 20:46
You're welcome, LeePal, I read your last post on the Pruefer thread, and am glad you have found that Buffet owners are happy to discuss your oldie. RE: doughnut pad, I'll bet Chris P [in London, GB ! would love to make a pad [cork? Chris] to find out how good a fork Eb/Bb it could make. Buff dropped it and other Full Boehms used the small tone hole/pad to tune it, I believe. Other's concerns for HighPitch vs LowPitch is correct, your Buff is in that time period. I'll study your pics and comment on what I derive. As I said, FUN, ain't it. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-07 21:42
Wonderful! Great to hear from you again Don.
Yes I think this is so interesting talking about these instruments. My day sure flies by reading and writing about them.
If you're interested I could attach some pictures of my Pruefers sometime.
Thanks for your input.
LeePal
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2007-09-08 21:46
Curt of MusicMedic made me a bunch of gut donut key pads a few years ago. They work fine if your key still has the inner retaining ring. If the ring is gone then you are forced to use cork, which in my opinion does not seal as well.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2007-09-08 22:25
<<Curt of MusicMedic made me a bunch of gut donut key pads a few years ago. They work fine if your key still has the inner retaining ring. If the ring is gone then you are forced to use cork, which in my opinion does not seal as well.>>
You can also drill a hole through a Valentino pad. Drill it slowly to avoid ragged edges. Glue in with glue gun glue.
Can work very well.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New and Used Buffet Clarinets
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-09-09 00:26
"If the ring is gone then you are forced to use cork, which in my opinion does not seal as well."
Do you know how to install and seat cork pads?
If they didn't seal as well, then how come they're used on oboes and cors with excellent results? If they didn't seal, then all instruments fitted with them will be rendered unplayable.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2007-09-09 16:40
Great idea Walter, using Valentino pads. I have some razor sharp concentric punches which should do the center hole. The Valentino has enough flexibility to seal well with the worn and uneven donut seats you see on 100+ year old horns. I have one old "A" that is a perfect candidate for your suggestion. What are the advantages of using glue gun glue over shellac in this situation?
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-09-09 17:07
Hot melt glue has a lower melting point, so is ideal for synthetic pads as there's less risk of them distorting with the heat (shellac needs a fair amount of heat before it sticks - hot glue is sticky at a much lower temperature).
Though it's best to tidy up any rough, uneven or damaged areas on toneholes before seating pads of any kind on them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: LeePal
Date: 2007-09-11 12:35
A question about the Valentino pads. Are they all self stick on the back? That just doesn't seem as dependable as using shellac.
We haven't taken the doughnut key off yet to see if the inner retaining ring is there but in looking real briefly there doesn't seem to be a high inner ring - but there is a lower inner ring from what I can see.
We're working on a couple of Pruefers at the moment since this Buffet won't be able to be my daughters main clarinet if it's a HP clarinet. A bit disappointing but we will work on the Buffet in the near future.
Our goal at the moment is to have a working wooden b flat clarinet ready for District tryouts this winter season.
I am completely unfamiliar with the LP and HP clarinets. Is there special music just for them?
LeePal
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-09-11 13:48
HP and LP clarinets won't mix due to the tuning - LP is what is used now (440Hz) and HP is around 452Hz, so it's almost a semitone sharp. You can only use a HP instrument with other HP instruments, or an electronic piano or strings tuned up to 452Hz. They play the same music, but HP remained the pitch for brass bands and mlitary bands (as well as some orchestras) for long after LP was standardised.
Post 1939, LP was the standard across the board, whereas before all manufacturers made instruments to both pitches.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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