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 Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: elmo lewis 
Date:   2007-08-26 00:34

Click Here
Some speculation and what appears to be some dirty politics.

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: JessKateDD 
Date:   2007-08-27 07:23

I read the article. Certainly the people leaving aren't happy with the direction the orchestra is going, but I don't think that necessarily translates to "dirty politics". The associate concertmaster is unhappy about a new position created which effectively demotes her, and the trombonist has been "acting principal" for some time but never won the job outright. Gilbert is the one that is hardest to read. He makes it clear that his leaving is not for convenience and merely says that he doesn't like the way some things are going. Still, wearing three hats - Cleveland Orch, UM, and Cleveland Institute - that would sure be hard to pull off. Of course, he may have gone for the UM job to get out of Cleveland...

It is pretty obvious that there are some morale problems in Cleveland - either with the conductor, management, or both. Still, "dirty" isn't the word I'd use. And musician strife is pretty much the norm. How many major American orchestras have not been on strike in the past quarter century?

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: ChrisArcand 
Date:   2007-08-27 12:55

Agreed. Seems blown out of proportion to me....CA

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: elmo lewis 
Date:   2007-08-28 00:01

Here's my interpretation: Clarinetist asks for a raise and doesn't get it so he takes a better paying job. Germanic conductor won't accept a woman in a position of authority so he hires a man to replace her. If she sues she'll never get another job anywhere. This orchestra is running a deficit but they create a new $100,000+ position "to strengthen the leadership in the section". Right. Trombonist is good enough to play principal for 3 or 4 years (including recordings and European tours) but isn't good enough to hire for keeps. He is good enough for LA however. I'd bet that the other brass principals don't like him for some reason. All this is pure speculation on my part.

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: Liquorice 
Date:   2007-08-28 05:36

"Germanic conductor won't accept a woman in a position of authority so he hires a man to replace her."

This same conductor hired 2 female concert masters, 2 female principal 2nd violinists, 2 female principal violists, 1 female principal bassoon (amongst others) during his time at the Zurich Opera. Yes Elmo, I'd say that's pure speculation on your part.



Post Edited (2007-08-28 05:37)

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: RodRubber 
Date:   2007-08-28 05:44

speculation is really un called for here. Unless you know the facts, its best to not say anything.

Im assuming the people who do know the facts would use discretion anyway.



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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: vin 
Date:   2007-08-28 13:39

Elmo-
Sorry, you are completely wrong on all counts.

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: CPW 
Date:   2007-08-28 13:47

Mebbe cuz the MusDir's nickname is Worsen Most?

Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: clarinetfreak 
Date:   2007-08-28 17:05

I am very happy for my Alma Mater, University of Michigan, because they are getting a world class musician, teacher, and person.
He was living a pretty hectic life before getting the Umich gig (which consisted of playing in the Cleveland Orchestra, teaching at Case Western and Stony Brook, which is located in Long Island, New York). Furthermore, the added bonus of being able to raise his two very young kids in Ann Arbor was I'm sure a perk.
IMHO, teaching at one of the world's most prestigious academic and musical institutions rather than playing second clarinet in one of the greatest orchestras is a better use of Dan's talent.

Good Times!

Post Edited (2007-08-29 00:41)

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: kev182 
Date:   2007-08-29 08:08

Just wanted to say, Mr. Gilbert teaches at Case Western not CIM and Stony Brook. Speaking to Gilbert, he was really excited about his new job in UM. I don't think he views this change as a negative thing at all.



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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: Ed 
Date:   2007-08-29 10:58

He is listed at Stony Brook as faculty

http://naples.cc.sunysb.edu/CAS/music.nsf/pages/faculty

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: clarinetfreak 
Date:   2007-08-29 23:12

I studied with Dan Gilbert at Stony Brook two years ago. Keeping in touch with students still at Stony Brook, Dan was still there as of last academic year.
I did hear that as he will start teaching at umich this fall he was going to continue teaching at Case Western but will be not be teaching at Stony Brook anymore.
Stony Brook music department most likely has not updated their website yet, but I bet they will find a very suitable person to replace Dan for the time being. Stony Brook in my opinion is one of the most underated and unknown Graduate music programs in the world.

Good Times!

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: Ken Shaw 2017
Date:   2007-08-30 15:47

Orchestra members tell me they like Franz Welser-Möst's conducting, but everyone agrees that he takes forever to make up his mind about new principals. Laura Griffiths was held on probation as principal oboe for two years and then let go, even though I'm told that everyone but Welser-Möst loved her playing. He delayed the choice of a new principal trombonist for years, and the player everyone apparently wanted finally took an offer from Los Angeles.

Frank Cohen is still fairly young as clarinetists go. Given the longevity of people like Drucker and Gigliotti, Dan Gilbert may have felt (and this is pure speculation) that he would never get a chance to move up.

Ken Shaw

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: Ken Shaw 2017
Date:   2007-08-31 15:21

I have also heard from a retired member of the orchestra that the critic Rosenberg does not and has never liked Welser-Most.

If one can't take a perceived demotion without other plans in hand, then frankly that is her problem. I wouldn't quit without something else lined up, ego or not.

I take all critics with a grain of salt. If I ever musically attended the "same" or "comparable" concerts they write about and that we both physically attended. maybe I'd accord them some more credibility.

Best regards,
Mary Vinquist
(Mrs. Ken Shaw)

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 Re: Dan Gilbert, others leave Cleveland Orch.
Author: runner 
Date:   2007-09-14 01:30

I have so many thoughts on this subject I don't know where to begin.
As a season subscriber to the orchestra I ,like many of you, "bond" with members, especially those who remain for years or decades. I remember a violinist tht many people loved to watch: Leonard Samuels. He sat on the end of the first violin section. His presence was amazing. His Rip Van Winkle-like beard created much interest.

I had bonded with Ellen, primarily through my father. He was a roommate of one of Ellen's relatives (uncle, gradfather?). My dad had come home from a Philadelphia hospital in the early 1970s. Although he was dying of pancreatic cancer he was thrilled that his roommate was "first chair cellist" in the Philadelphia Orchestra. I remember my dad saying his name:DePasquale, and when Ellen joined the orchestra I discovered the link. When I Ellen entered the stage as concertmaster, I thought of my dad.

I must admit I couldn't walk away from a $120,00+ job on "principle" as Ellen did. Ironically , I had a similar incident happen to me too. (another post) Good luck. I will miss Dan Gilbert too since , as a clarinetist, I had bonded with him from "afar." All Cleveland Orchestra clarinetist have been magical for me during my lifetime. (Did you know that Ted Johnson lived in a house once owned by Humphrey Bogart!!). Robert Marcellus told me to "take it easy boy" when I auditioned for him! (He called me 'boy.'

Thanks for indulging my ramblings.
Bob

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