 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2007-08-16 21:33
Hi everyone,
I've been experiencing a bit of some stress with my conductor from one of my Youth Orchestras and it's finally getting to me. He's not a very giving person, has a huge ego, and he's not a very approachable person (it's even a bit hard for me to look him straight into the eye).
It's a bit hard to explain because although he's not directly mean towards me, his attitude his quite bad. And what I mean by not approachable, he has such a big ego that he assumes the position of "looking down" on us. For example, I'd be talking to him about something then he'd just stop talking to me and ignore me. But in short, you get the idea, he's not the nicest person on earth.
I don't know why he's like that, because I'm a good model student who comes to rehearsals on time, and prepared.
I'm still in high school, and I do realize that there will be people out there like that, and I can't always avoid them but, my question is: how do you deal with these people?
Thank you, I appreciate your help.
Post Edited (2007-08-16 21:34)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2007-08-16 22:24
There are a lot of dethpicaple people on earth. The short message is: learn to deal with them, even if that means "duck and cover". Do your stuff, be (objectively) unattackable (ie learn your stuff, do your gig). Don't waste thought and energy towards such people. They'll pop up everywhere, and the sooner you learn how to "get past" these folks, the better.
This sounds rather discouraging, I know. Just give your best, and don't waste your energy. If you can't live up to your boss' expectations, try to exceed your own standards. Bosses pass, but that face in the mirror each morning stays.
--
Ben
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Author: Ski
Date: 2007-08-16 22:36
I think you're wise to realize that he's not the only person in the world like this, and whether it's in the music field or elsewhere you'll occasionally encounter this kind of flippant behavior.
Some possibilities...
I've seen it happen before, where an adult musician feels threatened by a younger musician because of the great degree of the younger one's talent --- perhaps more talent than the adult feels he/she ever had. Certainly it's not the teacher's job to protect their ego; rather, it's their job to foster your musicianship; but sometimes ego is a hard thing to overcome. If this be the case here, it's not your fault that he/she might feel this way. But it will make it difficult to deal with them.
Another possibility is that the conductor is focused on something else going on with the ensemble which results in you -- and possibly other students as well -- getting short shrift from him.
There are a million other reasons why this situation might be what it is. But let me ask you --- what is it that you're looking for from the conductor? Do you have a question? Do you need guidance? Do you have trouble following his baton? Etc...
And have you discussed this situation with your parents?
Post Edited (2007-08-17 02:15)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-08-17 03:06
Do your best. Be strong. Don't let it get to you and if it does, don't let it show. Sometimes someone who has a power trip going on likes to see that they are getting you.
As others have said, it won't be the last time in your life that you have to deal with someone like this.
Good luck!
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Author: Llewsrac
Date: 2007-08-17 06:04
Perhaps the attitude displayed is a result of his own lack of musical knowledege. Conductors come and go, and to this one shall pass.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-08-17 06:21
is he only this way to you, or does he treat everyone with the same negativity?
A good question to ask in situations like this is- 'Is it them or me causing the problem?' It takes a lot of time, but you may find it is 'them' just being a jerk, or you may find that it 'me' causing it, or both.
Or...
I have found some teachers to be bothered by those that are too 'into it'. Remember that this is probably not the first youth orchestra he conducted and many educators (in all subjects) get jaded over time. If you have a strong passion for music he might find it annoying. Not to pick on you, but it's a possibility that he doesn't care as much as you.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-08-17 11:45
You don't "deal" with conductors, you tolerate them. It's difficult not to look down on players when you're on the podium.
Bob Draznik
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Author: D
Date: 2007-08-17 19:02
a poor conductor is to be overcome, like a nasty run of semidemi quavers.
just do the best you can, focus on what you want to get out of the experience. you could always leave the school band and find a community orchestra which will take someone under 18.
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Author: butterflymusic
Date: 2007-08-17 22:16
His attitude may simply be distraction with other things. It's easy to think it's directed at you, but perhaps not. Let it go, and try and enjoy the music. That's why you're there...right?
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2007-08-17 22:54
Thanks everyone for your encouragement. When I saw him today, I kept this in mind, and I felt a lot better at the end of the day =).
He treats everyone the way he treats me, and often threatens the Timpani player to kick his butt. So, I don't think it's me in particular, that's just his personality.
But Ski, yes I have discussed this with my parents but I wanted to get another point of view. You also raise a very good question: what do I want from him? Well I just want to be able to be able to have a comfortable conversation with him maybe during the break of a rehearsal, and basically have a good relationship. But I just feel so uncomfortable around him, so it's hard to talk to him, and I wish I could. I've always had good relationships with EVERY single teacher I've had since Kindergarten, so I guess it's hard to NOT have one with someone.
So I guess for now, I just have to get used to that...
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-08-18 00:31
I guess It's time to take out the Uzi.... *rolls eyes*
haha, jkjk.
I think everyone in your life you'll meet lots of people like this... I THINK Teachers and Employers are a bit more prone to this....
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2007-08-18 13:01
Just use it as a learning experience. At least he's not your paying boss so you get to learn from him without your job being on the line. So conductors get a kick out of being flaming as&holes and view it as training for the real world. Philadelphia Youth Orchestra Conductor used to view it as making the students strong by intimidating them so that no conductor in the future could be worse and break them.
Not my idea of a good healthy time, but it was what it was...........
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-08-18 13:20
Just take him outside and give him a slap.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-08-18 13:55
Isn't there an "old saw" about " a soft answer turning away Wrath". I also am a believer in training conductors [further], so I seldom make a derrogatory [sp?], complaining remark at a rehearsal, but may ask, privately, "I have difficulty in catching your downbeat, could you make it a bit deeper, please" , and other similars. Seems to work ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2007-08-18 19:45
think of him as a Leinsdorf or Szell, a wonderful experience. !
richard smith
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-08-19 02:24
OmarHo,
Why do you feel like you need to have a conversation with the conductor during breaks? The last person I want to spend time with during a rest period is the conductor. Think what would happen if everyone wanted to talk to the conductor at this time. He or she needs time to "take a break."
As Draz says, conductors are tolerated.
In over 55 years of playing, I've worked with hundreds of conductors. I have had the good, the bad, and the truly ugly. I really only remember the best! If you are just in HS, you have a great number of "interesting" conductors yet to experience. Focus on the great ones.
It's also like golf. We remember the really great shots and not the ones that go OB, in the lake, or just lip the cup. If a couple of bad golf shots (conductors) discourage you, you might want to find another line of work.
Rules For Dealing With Conductors
Rule 1. The Conductor is Always Right
Rule 2: If The Conductor is Wrong, See Rule 1.
HRL
PS Sounds to me like you may be a tad approval-seeking. Back-off! There is no need to have a relationship here, is there?
PSS It is expected that you will actually be early to a rehearsal (to be on-time is to be late, to be on-time is to be early) and have your part ready. Leave it at that.
Post Edited (2007-08-19 03:26)
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2007-08-19 04:57
Blumberg said: "Not my idea of a good healthy time, but it was what it was..........."
I had a great time. ANd that particular conductor screamed at me one rehearsal and told me i was just as big an idiot as my brother!!
Hahaha
Primavera, good times
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Author: William
Date: 2007-08-19 17:43
Conductors are only "there" for downbeats and cut-offs. Whatever else they do in between should always be ignored--or at least tolerated as necessary distractions. After all, without the musician, they would look pretty silly.
[but don't tell them I said so]
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2007-08-19 18:04
I beg to differ. With just about every ensemble I've played in (and just about every concert I've heard), the conductor is either good enough to bring up the quality of the group, or bad enough to bring it down. It took a few good conductors for me to realize this.
If the conductor is bad and the musicians are good, the musicians can sometimes pull it together by going "visors down" and ignoring the conductor for everything but, as you say, downbeats and cutoffs. This can only get you so far, though. Put a horrible conductor in front of the L.A. Phil (I've seen it happen), and even they can only do so much about it.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2007-08-19 19:17
Thanks again everyone.
Hank:
I'm not going to get discouraged by the conductor though, I'm tougher than that. Thanks for making me realize that I don't NEED a relationship with this conductor. I would like to be in different orchestras throughout my life, so I'm happy that I'm able to realize this now, so in essence, this conductor has helped me grow into a stronger person.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-08-19 23:21
OmarHo,
That's the right idea. While having a good relationship with a conductor is a good thing, getting the job done trumps everything.
Think about this. My most recent boss on my day gig and I are very good friends but when it's business, I never put him in a situation where he can't make the best job-related decision. Same with a conductor. Never let a relationship with your supervisor/conductor prevent either of you from making your best decisions.
That has always worked for me.
HRL
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2007-08-20 22:46
I agree with Hank. Probably the best thing to do is just play your best and don't try for a relationship with this conductor.
We had a rehearsal conductor in my church orchestra for a while that was just too demanding and obnoxious for a volunteer group. He had a way too high opinion of himself (and maybe low opinion of everyone else who wasn't quite as perfect as him) and I wasn't the only one that thought so. Guess what? He has moved on and the ensemble has survived and now we have a much better person leading rehearsals.
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2007-08-21 06:31
Lots of good comments here.
I'm reminded of a once popular book, "How to Work for a Jerk".
I have worked for/with many conductors/bosses. I don't think any of them were so bad that I could not learn something from them. You might try to look past the emotional aspects and see what you can learn from this person.
Keep in mind that this person is probably acting out the way conductors were to him. It's what he has learned over time.
I don't believe you said whether or not this person is more agreeable in a one on one situation or not. Some conductors will adopt a "podium attitude", but be quite personable otherwise.
Speaking of learning, you might try this. When your relationship with this person is coming to a close, graduation perhaps, you might try confrontation. This is mostly for your own personal growth. Take him aside, alone in private, and tell him that you don't like the way he has treated you and others over time. Also tell him why.
If the group is as I think it is, you can point out to him that everyone is there as a volunteer. Also, that everyone wants to have a good experience learning and making music together, etc. Prepare your remarks well and consider any comeback he might dump on you with. Above all, stay calm, but stick to you guns. If he is unyielding, then just say that the two of you will have to agree to disagree and walk out.
This might be good practice for you in dealing with people you will meet in the future. However, these things are best done early in a relationship. In any realationship between two people, both individuals have an equal stake in the quality of that relationship. Both have equal rights in expressions about the relationship.
I am not urging or recommending that you do this. I am just suggesting that you consider it. Think of it as an experiment and a learning experience for you. In the end you must do what works for you and is in your comfort zone.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2007-08-21 10:57
Bstutsman,
1. "Take him aside..."
2. "Point out..."
3. "Everyone wants..."
4. "Prepare your remarks..."
5. "If he is unyielding...."
IMHO This does not sound like a relationship but a confrontation. I fear this would be a bad experiment for OmarHo to try.
HRL
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2007-08-21 13:23
Obtain glasses for near vision (to see the music perfectly) but which make distant version a blur (so all you can see of the conductor is a vague waving of the baton). Have these 'orchestra eyeglasses' always on hand as an integral part of your kit.
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Author: bstutsman
Date: 2007-08-21 13:55
Hank,
You are right. It is a confrontation as I noted in my response. The idea is not to necessarily resolve or improve the current situation that OmarHo is in. It may be that the situation is beyond redemption. Rather, it's to help OmarHo deal with future, similar situations. It is practice. It is a exercise.
Note too, that I suggested he do it at the end of the relationship. In this way any damage that might occur is not long term.
Even if he does not actually do it, the thought process involved will still help him in later situations.
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