 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: marshall
Date: 2007-06-09 23:53
I'm in the market for both a new mouthpiece and barrel. My teacher wants me to move up half a reed size, but doesn't think my current mouthpiece (M13 Lyre) is able to play anything stronger than what I'm currently on (Vandoren V12 4's). Also, I'm looking into getting a new barrel for my Bb.
My question is: what are a few online stores that will ship you a few models of barrels and/or mouthpieces for trial and then let you return the ones you don't want?
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-09 23:57
Wait until you select a mouthpiece, then check the intonation (and the sound) before considering a barrel.
You might not need one.
(I lose more business with honesty, but who cares)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-06-09 23:59
Most of the major on-line retailers (WW/BW, Weiner, Muncy, etc...) as well as the custom makers of mouthpieces and barrels (Smith, Grabner, Segal, Redwine, Behn, Backun, etc... ) will usually ship 3 or more items, secured with a credit card.
Restocking fees and/or handling charges usually apply ....GBK
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2007-06-10 01:17
I'm puzzled. Why does your teacher want you to "move up" half reed size?
Is ther a contest going on where the hardest reed wins?
Usually the reed strength is based on what works best with your mouthpiece, not the other way around.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2007-06-10 01:18
Why does your teacher want to move you up half strenght if the current strenght works with the mouthpieces you are using ?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2007-06-10 01:27
I know several custom mouthpiece makers that will send multiple mouthpieces (sometimes 10) and if they are returned undamaged only shipping charges apply. YMMV and some makers have specifics about potential resocking fees but they are all spelled out - some do, some do not. I know that I recently ordered a new mouthpiece from Ben Redwine, he sent 10, and was not charged anything when I sent back mouthpieces except the postage both ways. Gregory Smith sent me 10 each of the Kaspar and Chedeville styles and there was only the postage fee. You should of course be very careful not to scratch them with ligatures and apply a mouthpiece patch too. Various makers or sellers will be glad to tell you their policies and it is best check first so that there are no suprises or hard feelings about returns later.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-06-10 13:20
You need a new teacher - "wanting you to move up half a reed size" is a ridiculous idea, given that he's not sure what mouthpiece you'll end up with.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-06-10 15:27
Hello,
Suggesting a new teacher is a bit premature, without some further information.
Perhaps the teacher mentioned is a band or orchestra director and not a private instructor? In that case, the teacher is probably trumpeter or some other instrument, in which case, regardless of how good the teacher may be, that person is probably not familiar with the intricacies of variations of mouthpieces, etc. A lot of clarinetists are not either, for that matter.
I do agree that changing strengths of reeds before settling on a mouthpiece is not a good idea. I suggest trying as many different mouthpieces as you can before deciding. Although VanDoren products are not my favorite, they are good and I'm sure your current mouthpiece will suffice until you find the best fit for you. Take your time. Get a couple of reed strengths above and below what you currently play. Then, test the mouthpieces. The curve of the mouthpiece facing as well as the way you play will determine the correct reed strength for you and your chosen mouthpiece. Don't be sucked into the belief that "harder is better". You should play whatever strength of reed that allows you to accomplish what it is that you wish to accomplish on your clarinet.
If you don't have a private teacher, I highly recommend finding one. If you can't afford it in the long-term, at least take a couple of lessons with the goal of having this professional help you determine a good set-up. Be up front with the teacher when employing them, if short-term is your goal. It will severely lessen the "learning curve".
Good luck!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2007-06-10 16:50
I'm sorry to disagree with you, Ben. I am a high school band director, and I always bristle at remarks about "just a band director". I know you did not mean to insult band directors, but I happen to hold myself to pretty high standards. I realize there are many band directors who are twits, but let's not excuse their ignorance on the basis of "they're only a band director", please.
You say, " Perhaps the teacher mentioned is a band or orchestra director and not a private instructor? In that case, the teacher is probably trumpeter or some other instrument, in which case, regardless of how good the teacher may be, that person is probably not familiar with the intricacies of variations of mouthpieces, etc."
I respond: then he/she is NOT a very good teacher. A good teacher WOULD know about these issues, or would at least have the common sense to remain silent and direct the student to an expert. A GOOD teacher would never give such bad advice. And "move up half a reed size" and then find a mouthpiece is really bad advice.
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Author: vin
Date: 2007-06-10 16:58
Before we all jump on the teacher, I'd like to point out that:
1. we've never heard Marshall play
2. we don't know who the teacher is, if he/she is competent, mediocre or outstanding
3. we don't know the reason, if any, why Marshall is supposed to change reed strengths
4. we don't know that his teacher asked him to change barrels
5. we don't know if the mouthpiece has been refaced or not
I agree that a 4.5 on a M13 sounds too hard to me (Burt Hara uses 3.5, I know a few other pros who use a 4), but perhaps the teacher has a reason, or perhaps Marshall has gotten it wrong. Perhaps if Marshall could articulate why his teacher has told him to change reed strength, the rest of us would have a better chance to give helpful advice. If Marshall can't articulate why he's supposed to change reed sizes, he should talk to his teacher before consulting people who have never heard him play. If he doesn't get a good reason why, then, perhaps it's time to change teachers.
One of the greatest advantages of this board is also its greatest danger; receiving advice from people who don't know you can help provide a clearer perspective, or it can confuse the issue with people giving well-intentioned advice without having heard you play. Either this teacher is not up to snuff, or we're not getting the whole story. I'd be curious as to what the reality is.
Post Edited (2007-06-11 01:29)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2007-06-11 12:12
Hello Mags1957,
Perhaps you did not read my post precisely. I never said "just a band director". In fact, I've met quite a lot of band directors throughout my life and there are only two that had complete knowledge of every instrument to the point of knowing about mouthpiece curves for clarinets, for instance. I don't imply in any way that band directors are inept, to the contrary. However, with having to deal with flutes, horns, trombones, etc. (not to mention school administrative duties) there is simply not the time in the day for a band director to have the knowledge about every instrument in their band class, unless their band is incredibly small. Please don't take personal offense, but I do stand behind my remarks and hope that you'll reread them without thinking that I am criticizing band directors. I'm merely giving my best advice that (and there are exceptions) a band director is not the person that should be giving clarinetists advice, unless that band director happens to be a clarinetist. The same is true for a trumpter, etc.
We don't know the motivation behind this teacher's comments. Perhaps the teacher is a private teacher, or a clarinetist band director. Perhaps he/she hears that the student is playing a soft reed. There simply is not enough information to know exactly what is going on. Until we do, all of these posts are speculative.
By the way, Mags, I googled you. I can see that you are one of the people to which I refer (the two band directors that know all of the instruments). On your website, I see that you are proficient in all instruments. You are the VERY rare teacher that can do it all. I must assert that simply because other teachers do not have your proficiency (and therefore intimate knowledge) on all instruments, they are not bad teachers. I think the best scenario for a young student is to have a good band or orchestra director AND a private instructor.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-06-11 12:51
We still do not know WHY Marshall was told to change his mouthpiece.
Why the need to switch reeds?
Perhaps simply going from one brand to another, taking advantage of denser cane, might work.
Perhaps we have a case of "GAS by proxy"
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-06-11 13:38
Marshall,
First of all, have you tried the 4.5 V12 on your M13 lyre? I had good success with this combination through my graduate degree. My teacher actually preferred that I use a well-balanced 5, which I sometimes do. His reasoning had to do with more heart in the reed makes it able to stand up to good air support and gives more depth to the sound, and by the time you finish balancing anything less than a 5 there isn't enough heart left in the reed. (David Pino mentions this in his book, too.) It is also possible that your M13 lyre isn't a great one, since Vandoren mouthpieces can be inconsistent. Once you get a good 4.5 V12 that plays well on your current mouthpiece, you might try some other M13 lyres with that reed to see if there are better ones out there. Check tuning, tone quality, and ease of response. I found that mine was pitched a bit low until I got warmed up. Barrels can fix this. Try Moennig barrels if you go with that mouthpiece.
If you want to try other mouthpieces too, try one with a slightly more closed tip opening than the M13 lyre with a comparable facing length. I think my tip opening is 0.102 mm. In general, a more closed tip opening with a fairly long facing takes a harder reed.
Your teacher's advice doesn't sound all that preposterous to me. Since we haven't met you or your teacher, I'd like to give you both the benefit of the doubt. Good luck in your search for a great set-up.
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2007-06-12 20:38
Forgot to mention. Incidentally, I recently switched to a Gennusa Excellente mouthpiece made by Ben Redwine. For me, it had a similar feel to the M13 lyre that I was accustomed to, but gave more ring and depth to my sound. I'm able to use the same reeds I was using before, 4.5 - 5 V12.
Good luck again!
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-06-12 22:48
I am not sure why your teacher would want you to move up to a more resistant reed..consequently you should go to a more closed mouthpiece.
So this could certainly mean a great alteration in the way you form embouchure and breathe etc.al.
Did you ever ask why your teacher wants you to play on a harder set up?
...this can be alot more problematic in some ways..also what specific problems are you having with the current barrell?
David Dow
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