 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: beantown_Bb
Date: 2007-04-11 15:24
Hi,
I got a new E11 semi-recently, and it appears to me that the barrel is just unbelievably short. (Yes it plays sharp, but I noticed by eye, as well.)
I am currently using the longer barrel from my old clarinet instead with some success. However, I was wondering, when referring to the measurement of the barrel, how does one measure? I am interested to measure mine and see where it stands.
Does one measure the mm from ring to ring, or from the inside chamber ("bottom" of socket to bottom of socket), or by some other means?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-04-11 15:38
With the factory supplied E11 barrel at approximately 64.5mm, the E11 is designed to play at A=442 ...GBK
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2007-04-11 15:46
I asked this in another thread and was told, bottom to top on the outside.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-04-11 16:09
I agree above, and, IMHO, I believe that a horns pitch-tuning is more related to the total "made-up" length of the mp + barrel, and have measured [in mm's] and tagged both the barrels and mps that I might combine for playing. Also I believe that a close matching of the exit and entrance BORES does help. Others, thots? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-04-11 16:58
Attachment: segal14.jpg (6k)
No such thing as a stupid question
See the attached photo.
That 'splains it.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2007-04-11 16:59)
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Author: beantown_Bb
Date: 2007-04-11 17:01
Thanks for the great info so far.
I do remember reading GBK's comment about E11s being tuned at 442 with a shorter than (US) average barrel.
However, what about the E13s? Someone who plays in one my groups with me has an E13, and his barrel is NOTICEABLY longer than mine.
Maybe I am dreaming, but I had thought that the various E-series would have similar specs, but I guess not.
So -- I am off to measure!
Thanks again
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Author: beantown_Bb
Date: 2007-04-11 17:08
(drum roll please)...
Looks like my E11 is a non-scientifically measured 63.5 (which is basically what GBK said with a margin of error on my end).
The older barrel I am using is non-scientifically measured at about 67. Guess I'll be sticking with the old barrel -- at least till I can get the clarinet that it goes with overhauled and spiffed up.
I guess last question: Why do they sell 442-tuned instruments in the US? Is it assumed that there is a need to compensate for inherent flatness of less experienced players?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-04-11 17:30
For one thing, if you're clarinet is pushed together completely, and you're too flat, you can't fix it. But if it's pushed together and you're a tad sharp, you can pull out a bit to fix it.
Just one possible reason.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: vin
Date: 2007-04-11 17:40
Some orchestras in the U.S. play at 442, some to 441, some to 440, and one (that I know of) to 439.5. The best orchestras stay on pitch throughout the whole concert, or at least, stay in tune with each other. Most of the others start going sharp as soon as they start playing.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2007-04-11 17:45
Quote:
Most of the others start going sharp as soon as they start playing. Another good reason to have the option of being able to raise your pitch above your tuning standard.
One of these days in the summer over here I'll check with my tuner to see whereabouts the WWQ I'm in ends up after a performance. Judging by our location and season (Summer in Iraq!), and the fact that as we play noone in the group seems to want to compensate for it, I'm willing to bet we'll end up around A=446 or more.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-04-11 17:51
I wouldn't be surprised if the shorter barrel for E11's is designed more to combat the idea that many beginning clarinetists play flat.
I do appreciate the fact that a sharp clarinet can be lengthened (as per sfalexi).
But this can make a clarinetist with good fundamentals REALLY sharp. It's a shame that there isn't another initial purchase option (aside from later buying another barrel).
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: GBK
Date: 2007-04-11 18:05
beantown Bb wrote:
> However, what about the E13s? Someone who plays
> in one my groups with me has an E13, and his barrel
> is NOTICEABLY longer than mine
I'm not sure about NOTICEABLY, but the E13 Bb clarinet has a 65mm factory supplied bell.
Intererstingly, the E13 A clarinet also has a 65mm factory supplied bell...GBK
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2007-04-11 18:07
Wouldn't clarinetists with good fundamentals hear that they were sharp, and pull out?
And of course there is another initial purchase option: buy a different model clarinet...
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2007-04-11 18:20
Good fundamentals and an experienced reference point are not the same unfortunately.
I have students with good embouchures who focus sound in the manner that I teach who play in classes in which they are the aberration for having proper fundamentals.
The overall pitch of the classes is all over the place, and so they themselves yet lack a good pitch perception/awareness.
To the other point, presuming we're still talking about Buffet's (obviously not the only option) there is a huge price gap between Buffet's student and pro models.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: beantown_Bb
Date: 2007-04-11 18:23
Maybe "noticeably" was a wee exaggeration -- meaning I didn't walk from across the room and say "holy cow, look at your barrel!" but when I put his and mine on a tabletop side by side, the difference was unbelievably obvious.
I know BUffets aren't the only option -- but given that the price was right ($750 -- even post-price "enhancement" -- Shh!!), it hit the spot at the time. For my budget and needs (community bands), even going up about $250-300 to the similar-quality Leblanc just wasn't justifiable financially speaking.
Someday I'll treat myself to a nice CSG, but till then, E-11 city for me
Post Edited (2007-04-11 18:35)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2007-04-12 13:12
My Leblanc L7 "came to me" with 2 barrels, a 64 mm and a 66 mm, perhaps one was added by the pro shop owmer. An old Selmer "winged" A had 4 barrels !! presumably added from use experience?? My CT has only one, but I can match up a "shorter" easily. We Boy/Girl Scouts need to "Be Prepared". Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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