 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2007-04-04 23:23
I need help!
I cannot, for the life of me, play the Scherzo from Beethoven's 6th at tempo. Specifically, the famous run at the end.
I've done it slowly, I've done it legato, I've done it backwards, I've done two notes at a time over and over, I've done everything!
What can I do to get it up to speed?
Thanks!
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2007-04-05 01:49
I'm assuming the issue is articulation?
Two things that have helped my articulation - a close MP and Langenus Part 3 exercises 11 - 13. The Rhythm in #11 is especially helpful, as it does not tire the tongue. You can also take that scale from the Scherzo and apply the same rhythm pattern. Then put it more in context, playing the scale as dotted 8th, 16th - then do the scale 16th, dotted 8th - increasing speed with the metronome.
Or - learn to double tongue - I don't have any advice for that though!!!
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Author: vin
Date: 2007-04-05 02:30
Make sure you keep your tongue as close as possible- No, closer than that- and keep blowing through the clarinet. I only solved this by practicing as much as I could and then practicing more, keeping the above things in mind. Go notch by notch on the metronome, starting with only the run but tonguing the tied A on the first beat. As Kal Opperman says, "it's only a matter of hours" and, I would add, using your brain. Focus on getting it one click faster than your fastest consistent speed. Keep your tongue close and keep blowing.
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Author: ChrisArcand
Date: 2007-04-05 03:42
Your tongue is probably not the biggest problem.
Your fingers are probably too slow RELATIVE to your tongue. As an experiment, disregarding if it sounds bad, simply move your fingers faster than you really think they need to be. Does it line up? If so, good! You've found the problem. If, however, you now find that you maybe played the passage too fast for actually performance, you need to work on slowing that tongue down.
My point is that many times it is the fingers, and not the tongue, that leads to stumbling and falling on your face on rapid 16th passages.
To really adjust your tongue speed, first you need to know how fast your fingers need to move. Play the passage completely slurred.
This is a good start. Play on, you'll get it.
CA
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Author: ABerry
Date: 2007-04-05 04:01
Morrigan,
Using a metronome, set it at 40 and play thru the movement, set the metronome at 42, play the movement again, metronome back to 40, then at 44 back to 40, 46 back to 40, advancing one click each time and returning back to 40. It's a little time consuming but it works. I used this method to learn the Ibert woodwind quintet 1st movement, after about 45 minutes I could play the movement at 208... Like I said, it's a little time consuming, but it does work.
Good Luck,
Allan
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Author: sherman
Date: 2007-04-05 05:52
Do use a metronome, but don't change any equipment whatever you do.
The phrasing of your problem means to me that it is in your head in such a way as to become an obstacle, which this piece is not.
Without hearing you play, I would suggest that you simply listen to several recordings of it. You almost never hear the clarinet through the crescendo that the orchastra is making. The time is more important, that is the arrival at the cadence point with the others. Exactly at that point, which requires watching and keeping your time with that of the conductor and the orchestra, which sometimes can be at odds, one with the other. Keeping in time with the ensemble is most important.
Don't make it a tonguing contest. That is not what playing music is about, ever.
Being comfortable with the ensemble in terms of time is most important, and the articulation will definitely come, much easier than you think.
When you say "I can't play the Beethoven 6th Scherzo", I say," yes , you can".
Even in your practice room, you must hear the orchestra and know as many of the other parts as possible. When you get into the group, you get used to them and it can be a wonderful experience, a kind of symbiosis takes place and all help one another.
As in many clarinet parts, your particular part is not what is most important. In the Beethoven, it is taking over the solo line from the oboe and then staying with the others and of course, the conductor. The staccato will come, of this be certain. Ask yourself, "what is the tempo?"
Then you are quite close to the achievement of your part.
Good luck.
Shrman Friedland
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2007-04-05 11:13
If it is really fast I always double tongue the quick downward run...it starts on high c and ends on low g.
David Dow
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-04-05 19:50
I really think that it is ok to extend your technique by sluring some notes. Your teacher be damned, sluring a few is pretty standard practice in the fast Beethoven stuff --but one of the reasons that they are standard audition mateiral.
Bob Phillips
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2007-04-05 21:33
I agree with what Sherman said in his post. Spend time with recordings and learn the context of the music. Listen to the oboe solo and how happy and carefree the music sounds. Being intense about this solo is the wrong approach.
I've always found descending articulation much easier then ascending because the resistance decreases as you descend. You also get to crescendo which should help keep your air stream fast. Adding slurs in this particular passage might be ok in a performance but not in an audition and I really don't think it is needed here. Get it out of your mind that this is hard and just let it rip. I find the ascending scale in the Mendelsshon Scherzo much more chalenging because it is ascending and you have to dimuendo.
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2007-04-06 10:56
Here is a trick that you may not have tried yet. I have found that I tongue groups of three faster than groups of 2. So I think it as four groups of three, rather than 6 groups of two.
But if the conductor is really pushing, you either have to add slurs or double tongue. The last time I played this on a concert, I double tongued it.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2007-04-06 19:04
To practice staccato up to a good speed level is always a good thing to do. Performance is something different.
Musically spoken it would not do any harm to slur at least a4-f#4 in this run. I did that in a recorded live performance once only for the reason that Sherman mentions, to arrive absolutely in time in the cadence together with the others. I've never heard any complains about that ever. Be very allert as you start the run and just go for it. I's a very fun and rewarding little solo that takes over from the oboe in a very joyful manner. Don't let your ”clarinetty” teacher take this joy away from you. Music is very rarely about ”clarinetty” stuff but mostly about music for it's own sake. Have fun as you play and remember that Beethoven is not very specific about articulations unless he's asking for something specific. Especially since you are the only one playing this motif you can allow yourself to have a certain freedom, within stylistic limits that is.
Cheers,
Alphie
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2007-04-06 20:31
Can you do it at speed with just ONE note...the same note instead of the run?
Yes?
Then it is a problem of finger-tongue dysmotionrrhea ![[huh]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie11.gif) (or some similar high fallutin word)
If you can not tongue one note repeatedly at that speed, then use Tone Technique and Staccato by Abe Galper or buy a new tongue at the deli.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: donald
Date: 2007-04-06 21:23
some very good advice here
another idea.... (sorry i'm in a rush so it may not be well worded)
....a real killer for articulation speed is tension in the back of the throat/mouth.
As you get louder, in the bars before the articulated passage, ensure that you are not "tightening up" to compensate for a drop in pitch as this can cause the articulation to "choke". (this is more likely if you are playing a lighter set up)
donald
Post Edited (2007-04-06 22:41)
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