 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jimk
Date: 2007-01-11 00:41
I resumed clarinet playing about 5 years ago after a break of over 25 years. I’ve worked hard and with the help of some more formally trained friends probably play better than I did as a teenager. I play with several different kinds of groups – large and small – and have a pianist friend who will accompany my solos. People tell me they like my tone. My most serious problem is not playing loudly enough, especially in larger ensembles. I feel like I’m pushing plenty of air through my clarinet with good breath support, but somehow what comes out isn’t loud enough. My question for the board is this: Is there something in my set-up that I could consider changing to get more sound?
Selmer 10G
Muncy wooden barrel
Spano mouthpiece (marked “S2” and “MC”)
BG Super Revelation ligature
3.25 Gonzales FOF reed (I’ve tried 3.5 a few times, but my tone suffers)
I just read a listing at an online store for a Spano S2. They described it as a 106 (which wasn't very helpful to me).
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2007-01-11 02:48
have you tried changing anything to see the results?
having no way to know what you are doing- try taking more mouthpiece and opening your jaw a bit.
-S
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2007-01-11 02:59
It basically depends on the mouthpiece facing curve. On one side you have something like Spiegelthal flat curve which produces approximately 1/3 of mouthpiece volume and on the other side is the E. Matson curve which is as loud as it can be. When I started my clarinet studies I used to choke on the Selmer HS (without a star) mouthpiece. I never had enough volume on that duck. It was the main reason I got interested in mouthpiece refacing and hate flat curves ever since.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2007-01-11 08:24
I had a similar problem. About 3 yrs ago I bought a new clarinet and selected a mouthpiece, which was a Vandoren RV5 Lyre. At the time, I was playing in a quartet and a concert band. At the time, the standard of the band was improving rapidly as was the scale of some of the music we were playing. I found that the 5RV lyre was regularly closing up during the loud passages and it just couldn't take any more air. I tried several brands of reed and had similar results. I also tried harder reeds, but could not play the quiet passages. I liked the tone of the 5RV lyre ( I still do) and for me it is great for small groups.
I went to the local woodwind specialist, and they advised me that there were (in simple terms) 2 parameters that were working against me: the tip opening and the lay ie at what point along the length of the reed the mpc starts to curve away. ( yeah, I know that the shape of the curve, size of chamber and a million and one other things also have an effect), but those were the key parameters. The trick is to balance those things in a mouthpiece that does what you want. I wanted to increase the volume without losing control at the quiet end of the dymanic range, without losing tone or intonation. I spent a happy Saturday morning playing at the music shop, trying lots of different mouthpieces and reeds and came away with a Vandoren M30 and a box of V12 #3 reeds. I know that this is not everyones' choice, bit it works for me.
The upshot of all this waffle is if adjusting your embouchure doesn't allow you to get more volume, the try different reeds (relatively cheap) or a new mouthpiece, with some combination of more open tip and/ or longer lay. Try as many different ones as you can, be hyper-critical and if you don't find one that works for you, don't waste your money.
ps there are lots of threads on here about how to test mouthpieces.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2007-01-11 16:19
Jimk -
I've never tried a Spano mouthpiece. You might compare the Vandoren 5RV Lyre, which is a middle-of-the-road mouthpiece that's slightly more open than average.
You don't want to play particularly loud in a large ensemble, particularly a band. Your job is to be part of the section. Also, playing with other clarinetists makes it hard to hear yourself. Most band players play without a lot of "ping" in the sound, both to blend in and because the difference is difficult to hear.
The cardinal rule for band playing is, "At pianissimo, you shouldn't be able to hear yourself; at fortissimo, you should be able to hear everybody else."
The clarinet is not a really loud instrument. Trumpets begin where we leave off. Still, you can get more energy into your sound without getting louder. See my posting at http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=43807&t=43777 for how to work on it.
Also, you can also play a lot louder than you think you can. Try the handkerchief-in-the-bell exercise I posted at http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=158954&t=158878 and read the posts linked there.
Work on this for a while and let us know how you're doing.
Ken Shaw
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Author: FDF
Date: 2007-01-12 00:54
Another important part of the instrument is you. You don't mention what kind of physical shape you are in. Aerobic exercises increase your ability to support a column of breath and play louder and with more control over your volume. Simply walking two miles a day could be a big help.
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Author: joeyscl
Date: 2007-01-12 01:00
Do people tell you that you're too quiet? If not, how do you know you're too quiet? After all... what we hear when we play is not exactly what other people hear... Just curious.
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Author: jimk
Date: 2007-01-12 02:09
Wow, thanks for the comments! Let me answer some of the questions.
I've worked on getting more mouthpiece into my mouth. It helped. I keep pushing myself to do more.
I've tried a number of different reeds. I think my experiences sound similar to Mike Clarinet's. I haven't varied many other things.
One of the other threads included a posting about trying a larger bore instrument like a sax. Well, I started playing alto sax about two years ago and started taking lessons about a year ago. Sax has helped me learn about opening my throat.
Ken, I look forward to trying some of the exercises.
My conductors tell me to play louder. It doesn't help that my largest ensemble has four clarinets and probably 10 to 12 trumpets. I have done a little theater music, including a show where I was the only soprano clarinet in the pit. That conductor did soften me up a couple of times, but usually wanted more clarinet.
And lastly, I could stand to exercise more and eat less. However, I'm not a total couch potato, either.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-01-12 09:27
Don't sacrifice tone for volume - there are too many players that blast away just to be heard (and with no consideration for players sat next to them that may have a more important part), but lack a refined tone at all volumes - and also lack a wide dynamic range only playing from mf to ff.
Play long tones (in all registers) starting pp going up to ff and back down to pp - but be aware of the tone you're making throughout, the tone will get brighter at louder volumes, but make sure you keep it under control so it doesn't sound harsh and buzzy or break up.
And also be aware of your tuning - far too many players go dreadfully flat when playing from f to ff, so you have to prevent this from happening.
But the best thing is to practice long tones at one volume level and making sure your tone and pitch is solid without any fluctuations.
And finally, don't 'bulge' your tone. Keep it looking like this '----' with each note, and not like this '<<<<' as that gives the listener the impression you're behind the beat.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2007-01-12 15:19
It sounds like you have too many trumpets in your group.
Remember the old joke: How do you get two piccolo players to play in unison and in tune? You shoot one of them!
I think the problem lies in relative numbers; four clarinets will never outblast 12 trumpets. Since getting rid of the trumpets is probably not an option, your conductors need to recruit more clarinets for the ensembles. In the meantime, do the long tones, and check into a different mouthpiece.
JEff
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Author: ginny
Date: 2007-01-12 15:37
My son had the opener for Rhasody in Blue in his Jr. year in marching band. No mic. We took a Db meter and tried mouthpieces, the differences weren't great between any of them, a few stuck out as bit quieter - we stuck with his old one in fact. Yes he could be heard in a football stadium without a mic and I think that was on his RV5 lyre.
Now I have the opposite problem I am so much louder than the rest of my section (two other people) and close to as loud as the best trumpet when they play mezzo - I stick out and I am trying not to. My tone is what I like, some like darker, I like a bit of ping. My son is loud too with a good tone.
I now have a Lomax mouthpiece, a Vandoren optimum lig, Buffet Festival and use shaved down 3.5 V 12s.
Are you damping the reed a bunch? Do you feel like you're blowing out your birthday candles? Is the angle of the horn too high or low?
Do you have a really top drawer teacher?
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