 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-17 16:04
Ok here's is the pathetic situation I am in:
-first audition (westchester) is on Jan 30
-This is my "safety school"
-I have put off finding a piece for a while now
-I will have three more auditions in late feb/early march
-I probably should find a relatively easy piece
Any suggestions?
If this helps, I played "Gavotte and Minuet" by John Stanley for my diocesian audition and got 5th chair out of 10. Last year I got 4th chair playing Gavotte out of "solos for the clarinet palyer."
Is there hope for me?
Post Edited (2006-12-17 16:10)
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2006-12-17 17:27
In North Carolina, I'm playing Tambourin which is in solos for the clarinet player, i think page 13, and then im playing the rose etude number 17. either of those are good choices.
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-17 18:05
thanks for the help. Are the rose etudes in a book? (dumb question)
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2006-12-17 18:17
yep. the book is only like 8.95 i believe. any rose etude would be a great audition piece that you could learn fast, plus they sell CDs to go along with them
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-17 20:08
SVClarinet09 wrote:
> In North Carolina, I'm playing Tambourin which is
> in solos for the clarinet player,
The Gossec "Tambourin" (included in the Eric Simon anthology "Solos for the Clarinet Player") is only rated a Level III solo (out of 6) in the NYSSMA manual (New York)
It is a piece that junior high school students routinely play for solo competition.
I would think that any serious music program would require a more difficult selection for auditioning...GBK
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2006-12-17 20:53
GBK, I agree with you. I think it is in many ways a too easy solo, but hey, I'm not complaining =] The solos from Junior High and underclass high school kids don't change in difficulty that much in clarinet, now trumpet or other instruments, yes. I wish North Carolina was more competitive.
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Author: Imperial Zeppelin
Date: 2006-12-18 01:26
Most schools have a "recommended" repertoire so you should consult each school's list and create a program that will cover all the schools that you are auditioning at with the minimum number of pieces. The more competitive schools will be expecting to hear Mozart or one of the Webers, as well as some orchestral excerpts, along with the etudes.
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Author: ltguidetti
Date: 2006-12-19 01:05
As the wife of the former clarinet professor at West Chester and a clarinetist myself, if you come in expecting to be accepted as a music major playing something "easy", you're wasting your application and gas money, not to mention a day off school.
The requirements for solo on the WCU website are: "Repertoire: Two pieces/movements of your choice, in contrasting styles, which best show your proficiency.
Most people play auditions and want to *impress* people. Don't go in playing anything easier than the JeanJean Arabesques, and please don't play an etude unless it totally contrasts to the solo you play. I would suggest learning that, or the Weber Concertino, something along those lines.
This is a Music School. They do deserve *some* respect. Even if it Is your "safety" school - NO college wants someone auditioning for a spot if you're not going to take them seriously enough to learn a serious piece of the literature to audition for them. Someone who takes music seriously deserves the spot more. Pfft.
Lynn
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-19 02:22
I'm sorry Lynn. I did not mean to offend you. I figured I really didn't have the skill for a college music program. I just don't know what to do with my life........:(
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-12-19 18:33
have a backup major. you will find yourself dwarfed by others who are more qualified and have had the advantages of private tutoring. it's a dog eat dog music world out there.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-19 19:07
I argree with the "plan b" idea, but I can't think of anything else that I see myself being happy with as a career. I could go undecided to explore the possibilities...
Anyway here is my lesson backround:
-started in 4th grade
-continued untill 8th grade
-stopped
-joined high school band (small catholic high school- kind of "sheltered" so to speak)
-loved the director and began to further understand and love music
-never got any more lessons
-now im in this situation, REALLY regretting stopping my private lessons
Im now thinking that my best option would be to go undecided possibly with a music minor
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-12-19 20:11
columbus -
First off, stop thinking of yourself as pathetic. You've put in years learning to do something difficult, and it can pay off if you handle it right.
If you're auditioning as a music major, playing Gavotte and Minuet would be insulting -- a sure sign that you think they're beneath you. They may well reject you on that basis alone.
All right, West Chester (note that it's two words) isn't Curtis, but if you aren't a 1st chair player in high school (unless you were at the Interlochen Arts Academy), then there will be players well above your level wherever you go, including West Chester.
Also, the competition for teaching jobs is so fierce that superb players and teachers will fight tooth and nail for West Chester and be glad to get it. The clarinet prof will have plenty to offer.
You have about 6 weeks. If you start working now, really mastering your scales and arpeggios (which count for as much as the solo pieces), you can do a good audition.
By contrasting pieces, they mean one fast and one lyrical. At a college audition, you need to do something at least on the level of the Weber Concertino for the fast piece and, perhaps the slow movement of the Mozart Concerto.
Being a good player will help you get into college, even if you're not a music major. Pull up your socks, take a couple of lessons and go for it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-19 21:22
Thanks for the encouragement, Ken. What level are the Weber and Mozart? I also did not know that the scales counted for that much.
btw-I'm still planning on auditioning, but I'm trying to form a plan b as stated before
edit: I'm also not trying to be insulting by playing those pieces, I really had no idea that they would be insulting, as I have not had lessons in a while. I also feel that since the music program at my high school is *very* small, I have sort of missed out on certain things.....but this is more than made up for by my wonderful director who has, in all seriousness, inspired me.
thanks again
Post Edited (2006-12-19 21:33)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-12-20 00:06
I would add to Ken's recommendations to say: Find someone to help you (i.e. a clarinet teacher) learn these things as quickly as possible! Just because you stopped private lessons X number of years ago does not mean you can't start again!!!
Go for it!
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-12-20 01:11
Columbus-
There's always the option of majoring in something else, but still taking clarinet lessons and participating in ensembles. Maybe take a few music classes like theory and ear training. Maybe go in your first year and just take some music like I suggested and get lots of your core classes out of the way. Then, after a year, maybe then you'll know if music is right for you and then you'd feel more comfortable with auditions. Just a thought.
The Weber and Mozart would be at least level 5's. Probably around 5-6.
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-20 01:17
haha I know. I'm planning to get some quick lessons soon for some help with this.
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Author: ltguidetti
Date: 2006-12-20 03:25
I think that the avenue of undeclared with a music minor could be appropriate. If you don't have a background of private study, the major probably isn't for you at this point.
Definitely start lessons ASAP if the major is still in your plan, preferably with the teacher at the college you think you want to go to. "Quick lessons" will not necessarily help you with an audition. You may have other issues that a teacher would want to work on before solo work.
The idea that you have fun in band isn't enough to get you in as a music major. Music is serious business. Whoever mentioned the competitive level for jobs is absolutely right. For every, say, 50 music majors graduating from colleges every year, there might be only 1 full-time job opening, IF that. (I can't find the ratio but I read once that it was 63-1 or something like that.)
Think about it. At your local elementary school, there might be 50 or so classroom teachers - and one instrumental music teacher who probably floats between 2-3 schools. If that teacher is young, they aren't going to retire for another 40 years. Turnover is Low.
As for the solos: Mozart is subjective. There are teachers who think it's easy just because the fingerings fall under the fingers fairly well. That is, if you know your scales, etc. However, the nuance and style, and the cleanliness that Mozart requires is Very Difficult. Anyone can Play Mozart. Most students don't play him well and some college profs are really picky about it. So I never advise using Mozart.
This is why I suggested the JeanJean Arabesques. They actually use that for one of the district solos in the Lancaster County area. It's a grade 4 solo. If you are musical and you play that well, then they may be able to see your real potential. Weber is more difficult but also a good piece, as I said in my first post.
If you didn't know that scales and arpeggios were important for the auditions, please start reading the audition requirements for the various colleges you want to apply to. This is important....it's like going to school unprepared for a test, and wondering why you didn't pass....
Lynn
p.s. Ken - WCU definitely isn't Curtis, but it's not the bottom of the barrel, either. There's a lot worse out there. For someone with no lessons to consider it a "safety" school....that was more my point.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-20 09:56
Hi,
You mention that you have three other auditions in February and March. What are those schools? What are their requirements? If WSU is your safety school, what are your primary institutions and knowing what you know now, are you still planning to audition?
While others have tried to be encouraging here, I think you need to be realistic about your chances. Also, if you plan to be a music education major, that's one thing but as performance major, it would appear that you have still many tools to acquire and too short a time.
Playing catch-up while under pressure is a tough lot to undertake. I do not want to burst your bubble but knowing when "to hold em' and when to fold em'" is an important bit of knowledge.
HRL
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-20 19:18
Ok I kinda said WC was my "safety school" because it would be easier to get in academically, which is in a way, irrelevant, so I shouldn't have said that. My other auditions are at Ithaca, Moravian, and Messiah. I'm also planning on being mus ed major, so I would think that music teaching jobs are plentiful-correct me if Im wrong.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-20 19:21
columbus wrote:
> I'm also planning on being mus
> ed major, so I would think that music teaching jobs are
> plentiful-correct me if Im wrong.
Bada-boom ...
You mean you haven't checked yet?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-20 19:34
columbus wrote:
> I figured I really didn't have the skill for a college
> music program. I just don't know what to do with my life
Then he/she wrote:
> Im now thinking that my best option would be to
> go undecided possibly with a music minor
and most recently he/she wrote:
>I'm also planning on being mus ed major
My...how things have changed in just a few days.
Quite honestly, unless you have the passion and desire to teach music, the last thing the profession needs is another "teacher" who is doing it because they cannot find anything else to do.
Music teaching is serious business and difficult to do well.
The competition for jobs is fierce and the weak ones who do get hired are weeded out very quickly.
If you want to teach, your music fundamentals (including piano and theory) better be in order or you will have a long difficult road ahead.
...GBK (20+ years teaching jr. high and high school instrumental music)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-21 01:20
Columbus,
It would appear that you have some real decisions to make in a very short time.
Not knowing things about the basic pedagogy for the clarinet and not have studied your instrument under the tutelage of a teacher for many years put you at a terrible disadvantage. Also, to not have a firm grasp on the supply and demand situation for music education teachers opens you wide for disappointments.
It would seem that perhaps a year at a local community college coupled with a strong regimen of clarinet lessons under a demanding teacher would be what's in order. IMHO, I don't think you are close to being ready for a mainstream collegiate music education or performance experience.
HRL
PS Becoming a teacher should not be backup but a first choice. I base my remarks on 20 years as an elementary/high school/US Army band director and 24 years of university teaching and student academic advising. BTW, I am still a working professional woodwind player.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-12-21 01:52
Well, while we're all giving "columbus" a couple of reality checks, I'd like to ask him a couple of questions.
Just to make it clear, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who went to a small-town Midwestern high school many, many years ago. What passed, in that place and time, for college counselling, was indeed pathetic, where it wasn't nonexistent.
I had fantasized that things must be quite different now, even in the smaller schools. But what strikes me about the situation under discussion here is how very little constructive guidance "columbus" seems to have gotten from the folks at his own school.
For sure, to be this late in one's senior year, facing auditions and applications about which one knows little to nothing, may be the result of his not paying attention or not heeding the advice given -- a basic slacker attitude. But it may also be the result of a completely inadequate guidance unit within his own school system.
So my question for "columbus" is, what resources are available to you within your school, to get some advice about how to develop your college and career plans? Or, if there are none, what resources of that sort might be available to you elsewhere within your community (e.g., community college counsellor's office)?
It really does seem to me that somebody is asleep at the switch here, when you can get more information from one message to an internet bulletin board than you seem to have gotten in the past two years from your teachers and guidance counsellors.
Whether it's the result of your negligence or theirs, at this point you really do need to hook up with someone "on the ground" who can help you through this maze of decision making.
Best wishes to you -- don't give up!
Susan
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-21 02:51
Thanks for all your concern everyone. I'm impressed by your willingness to help. As for the "why be a music teacher?" I am still trying to figure this out. Here is another "timeline of indecisiveness"
-last year-oh what should I do for a living?
-I think I want to do something in music, but Im not up to college-level playing- I know! Ill get into recording industry!
-I do some research-talked to people in the industry-everyone said dont do it
-after great thought, I decided it really wasnt for me
-I began to think about other possible careers in music
-I thought of composition/film scoring- this is still my "top choice" but...
-Did research-found out most composers supliment with another job
-I also dont have compositions to show professors, we just started this in music theory II- my school only offers 1 and 2
-then comes music teacher- I honestly thought that there was a demand, someone told me this.
there it is, confusing or not
And for Susan-
I see this as my own fault along with the nature of my music program. It is somewhat laid back, although we play modern music-whitacre, rienikie(sp?)etc. I was never really pushed to get lessons because my director never knew I didnt get them and I have been 1st and 2nd chair the past 2 years, so I thought that I was "good enough." This is my fault for not recognizing that I am clearly underqualified, along with just putting this off for so long. I visited Ithaca in Sept and was kinda intiminated, so I began to doubt myself, thus putting this off more. So yeah, this is mostly, if not, completely my fault.
thanks for reading that, sorry if there are grammar mistakes, I am quite tired.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2006-12-21 03:35
Columbus
i went to keene state college in NH. not a music school, but a nice little music program.
i came from a very small town and a h.s. band of about 20 members.
i never had private lessons until part way thru my senior yr. to prepare me for college.
the audition wasnt anything like it is for "real" music schools. i went in the teachers office, with him and another teacher and played an etude. i was accepted.
i also never had a single theory class as my h.s. didnt offer it.
i suggest you go to a school like this to see how you like it and transfer if you are serious about it.
good luck.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-21 03:39
columbus wrote:
> I have been 1st and 2nd chair the past 2 years, so I thought
> that I was "good enough."
The classic "big fish, (very) little pond" story. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Please reread the advice of Hank Lehrer and others.
They speak from experience...GBK
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2006-12-21 03:40
ps - this was back in 1985/86. i discovered music ed wasnt for me and i wasnt good enough for performance. however, my love for music and playing clarinet never ceased and i continue to play in a community wind symphony.
i would also suggest going to a career counselor to find other interests and you may discover an interest or quality you didnt know you had.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-12-21 03:42
<<I see this as my own fault along with the nature of my music program. [snip] I was never really pushed to get lessons because my director never knew I didnt get them [snip] This is my fault for not recognizing that I am clearly underqualified, along with just putting this off for so long. [snip] I began to doubt myself, thus putting this off more. So yeah, this is mostly, if not, completely my fault.>>
OK, nice that you are willing to take some responsibility. But here's another reality check: you're what -- 17, going on 18 years old? You've been for some time harboring a desire to go into music professionally, but not sure what direction (no crime there).
So you look into a couple of things, and it doesn't look as rosy as it did in your dreams, so you look for something else, and by this point you're pretty confused, and still not really tracking on what it might take to get you where you want to go (still no crime).
But this is why I am asking about the role of your teachers and guidance counsellors. I just don't think you need to expect yourself, as a 17 or 18 year old, to figure this out all by yourself. You need to get more -- perhaps much more -- guidance than you have currently gotten.
You've been the 1st or 2nd chair clarinetist for two years? Why DIDN'T your school music teacher ever get to know you well enough to know if you were taking lessons, or to encourage you to take lessons? Just never crossed his mind? What sort of teacher is that?
You say it's your fault for not recognizing that you were underqualified? Huh? You're a kid, for heaven's sakes! How were YOU supposed to know what qualifications you needed? This is what teachers are for -- to tell you what you've gotta do. Yours, apparently, didn't.
But you know, people DO make it in the music world -- recording, composing, music business, and yes, teaching, among other thing. And most of them are NOT prodigies, or geniuses, nor did most of them start their careers doing all the right things. Many of us come to music as a profession after having had other careers. You DON'T have to be perfect to be a music professional.
What you do have to do it want it enough to pursue it, make it a priority, learn, learn, learn, learn, learn and work, work, work, work, work. Is it often hard? Insecure? Sure. If you want a secure job, go work for the Civil Service.
Bottom line: a great deal of what has gone into your being "underqualified" (or at least, underinformed) about your career options is NOT your "fault" -- really, truly, it's not. But now it IS your responsibility to take it from here.
Susan
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2006-12-21 16:00
I know someone else mentioned this before, but you might look into the Community College route. I work at one of these colleges, and one of our campuses has a pretty darned good music program, with various degrees awarded for performance, theory/composition and other disciplines. Of course, these are Associate's degrees, but they are a start, and they get many of the basic prerequisite studies out of the way, and for a much lower per-creit cost that you would find at most other four-year colleges. You complete the basic work at an institution such as this one, and then you are ready to progress to a higher level, four-year institution, having saved a fistful of your (or your parents') hard-earned cash.
To give ytou an example... I am in the Detroit area. Four yrear colleges (public) charge at least $150 a credit around here. ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif) For in-county residents, Oakland Community College charges about $56 per credit. You get the same basic classes, and learn the same things. Many (if not all) the credits are 100% transferable, and even if you decide this is not your ideal life goal, you aren't out all that much cash. Plus, you can get some of your other courses out of the way for a lower price, too, such as Freshman English, math and the like.
Consider something like that. It could be a better choice, both as far as your studies and your finances go. Also, if you do well at this level, there may be some decent Transfer Scholarships (as in FREE MONEY) available.
Some food for thought: http://www.oaklandcc.edu/or-art/music.htm
Jeff
Post Edited (2006-12-21 20:14)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-21 16:47
Hi Jeff,
That would be me that suggested the CC route for Columbus.
I am in the Toledo area and play with Monroe County Community and College Concert Band every Monday evening. There are about 25 MCCC students in the group and about 50 community members of all ages. The instrumentation is very complete and there is a bravura player in just about each section (3 in the sax section of 5 players).
I have played both tenor sax as well as clarinet with this group over the last several years and we regularly perform Level 5 music and some Level 6. I think the Oakland CC group is also a very fine ensemble as well and probably very similar to MCCC. The sax teacher there is an acquaintance.
Columbus would need some heavy duty lesson before moving on though. There are terrific teachers in this area with 6 music schools within a 30 minute drive (WSU, U of M, EMU, UT, BGSU, and Adrian); I'm sure that Columbus may have the same opportunities if a search is made of the local area.
HRL
Post Edited (2006-12-21 19:36)
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-21 19:37
Thanks again for the added support everyone. I think things are starting to click in my mind here, but I still have a lot of thinking to do. I really want to do my best an audition. I will probably pick up the rose etude book today to kinda gauge what work has to be done. I'll probably use the WC audition as a guideline as what I need work on.
As for Susan *again* haha
It isnt my teacher's fault in not encouraging me to get lessons- he just simply never knew (I never told him due to my ignorance of my ability) I talked to him today, and he mentioned the rose etude book. Also- my "guidance counselor" is not really geared to career guidance, I've went to him before. I also think I do have the will to work to get better.
Kind of urelated, but I know most colleges test piano ability, mostly for placement. My music teacher has offered to give basic lessons during school, should I do this in addition to getting private lessons?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-21 19:47
columbus wrote:
> My music teacher has offered to give
> basic lessons during school, should I do this in addition to
> getting private lessons?
Yes...start tomorrow
Most serious high school clarinetists have gone through the Rose 40 and 32. These are books that you will revist in greater detail when in college.
Start with the Rose 40 and Klose (if you haven't already been through it) to build technique and endurance...GBK
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Author: Imperial Zeppelin
Date: 2006-12-21 21:28
In general, most HS Guidance Counselors haven't got a clue when it comes to undergraduate music programs. My D's counselor told her that she couldn't apply to Peabody because it was part of Johns Hopkins and Hopkins requires 4 years of math! Gee, she got in there without the 4 years of math... Needless to say after that display of ignorance, we igonored anything the GC said.
I wouldn't worry about piano lessons right now. Start working on your clarient. Time is limited and you don't need to be distracted.
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-22 02:15
Another side note- My clarinet is probably the biggest piece of poo there is. It is plastic, and the brand is Normandy- I bought it for $75 back in 4th grade. I never got money to upgrade. I really try to play in tune and with good tone. I'm somehow the concert master for my wind ensemble, so I guess it's not *that* bad, but how hard will these etudes and solos be to keep in tune?
I hope I can find some place with discounted clarinets, or maybe rent a better model for the auditions.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-12-22 03:05
Hey, if you're looking for a good used clarinet and can shell out at least around $1500, check out the classifieds-------->. Scroll up and it's the 3rd salmon colored box on the right.
But......if you get into a college program, your teacher will help you pick out a great horn. I'd for now really work on the great fundementals of playing and work up your skills. A good horn will be a neccisity, but later down the line.
Post Edited (2006-12-22 03:06)
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Author: Imperial Zeppelin
Date: 2006-12-22 12:07
My last piece of advice...
Seems like you're coming onto this realization very suddenly and it is late in the game for Fall, 2007 admissions. Let's get back to the Community College idea, at least going to classes there for a year so you can get some basic courses out of the way, take some formal lower-level music courses and be involved with any of their ensembles.
During that year you can:
1. Focus on private lessons
2. Work on your audition repertoire
3. Work on getting your equipment up to where it needs to be.
From one procrastinator to another, I believe you let this one go too long before you had that "Holy S$%#!" moment of realization that you had better get on the stick. It's too bad the epiphany didn't occur late in your junior year, but these things happen. Now you need to plan a bit to figure how best play the cards you have...
Post Edited (2006-12-23 13:12)
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Author: columbus
Date: 2006-12-22 18:38
Well I think my best option right now is to try my best and see what happens.
Thanks for all the adivse, it was much needed.
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