 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-12-09 22:36
There's a video of Julian just posted on YouTube playing Messagers' Solo de Concours.
Of course he played very well for a 12 year old..but his stage deportment was not good,(deplorable)?
A child can be excused, but someone must be egging on such a routine. It's four years on now, does he still carry on like that?
He's studying with Sabine Meyer these days, she's not likely to tone down any showboating.
But maybe I'm just grumpy and reactionary or something...what do you guys think of such platform behavior?
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2006-12-09 22:51
So he likes to move...frankly it's the last thing I think about when I watch him play. So long as it has no negative effect on the end result, carry on I say.
Having said that, I can't say I ever remember seeing him move that much before, so I think he must have toned it down somewhat...you have to bear in mind exactly how many people watched that performance, he's entitaled to 'showboat' as you put it.
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-12-10 00:32
I see absolutely nothing, NOTHING wrong with an extremely gifted musician obviously enjoying themselves while onstage. What *I* can't stand is seeing someone stand there like they're playing at their mother's funeral...a great number of my favorite soloists are very animated onstage, like Sabine, Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg, Vanessa Mae, Marina Piccinini, and countless others.
This reminds me of the scene from "Hilary and Jackie" where Hilary (an exquisitely gifted flutist) is at the RCM and is forced to spend an entire semester playing a Bb while standing perfectly still because she is "too expressive", and she ends up a broken shell who can no longer even sustain a whole note, when once she was a virtuoso soloist.
Some people are simply quite literally moved by music, and I think that's a wonderful thing.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-10 01:49
DressedToKill wrote:
> This reminds me of the scene from "Hilary and Jackie" where
> Hilary (an exquisitely gifted flutist) is at the RCM and is
> forced to spend an entire semester playing a Bb while standing
> perfectly still because she is "too expressive", and she ends
> up a broken shell who can no longer even sustain a whole note,
> when once she was a virtuoso soloist.
While it might have dampened her spirit back then, Hilary is most certainly no "broken shell" today
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-10 01:53
Old Geezer wrote:
>
> But maybe I'm just grumpy and reactionary or something...what
> do you guys think of such platform behavior?
>
Well, Old Geezer, you must never have watched Bob Spring perform. I've told him that someday I'm going to glue his feet to the floor and watch him try & pry the floorboards up when he performs ...
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-12-10 03:19
There's no disputing with matters of taste.
I was just curious what others thought.
In 1945 I attended a concert of Heiftz...the only thing that moved was the audience! There was actually seven (7) encores!
I also saw Marion Anderson in her prime...she sang with her hands clasped in front and her eyes closed the whole time.
Maybe they knew something that's escaped us today.
But showmanship does have it's place. A gala
concert like Julian took part in, is probably the place.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-12-10 04:33
"But maybe I'm just grumpy and reactionary or something..."
Probably. Every day I see many people get bothered by things that I can't imgaine getting bothered by.
"what do you guys think of such platform behavior?"
I think that every player should move (or not) exactly how it is natural for them, which depends mostly on their personality. I don't mind someone moving a lot, and I actually move less than pretty much anyone I've seen.
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Author: frank
Date: 2006-12-10 07:12
I just watched that video and the kid sounded awesome. Most pros cannot play as well as he did when Julian was just 12 years old. We should all be jealous. His movements were a little overboard, but I've seen alot worse. I think he falls within the acceptable soloist range of expression. Great player! He's definitely the new Ricardo. Hey... everyone go out and buy the equipment Julian plays! lol
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2006-12-10 10:02
What an incredible performance from Julian! And to think he was only 12 at the time; it's just unbelievable. Now, as for his "jumping about", whatever is the problem with that? If he is moved by the music and that is his way of expressing himself, that is what he should do. The important thing in any case, for us listeners, is what he actually plays, and you can't possibly improve on that. I don't want to compare myself to Julian, because he is in a different league altogether, but as for moving about when I play, I am much the same as him. I just can't keep still, I am so moved by the music when I play, I have to move in some way. It's not something I decide to do, it just happens. I play mostly jazz, but even when I play more "serious" classical stuff, I have the same thing going. Sooo....if Julian Bliss (or anyone else for that matter) feels so blissful when he plays the clarinet that he wants to shake it, dance and do a boogie, yes absolutely, just go for it, let loose and get into the groove!!
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Author: jmcgann
Date: 2006-12-10 12:47
The deeply entrenched stuffy, snobby, rententive, dowdy attitudes that pervade much of classical music culture and keep young people turned off is really what's deplorable IMHO.
Let's not forget the ultimate sour grapes: "I'd like to play like that...then I wouldn't!"
I wonder if it hurt his mom to have a clarinet in the womb with him 13 years before this clip was shot...
www.johnmcgann.com
Post Edited (2006-12-10 12:54)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-12-10 14:17
Heifetz was a great violinist but he didn't have Paganini's moves.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-12-10 14:49
Old Geezer,
Thanks for the post, the video is mind spelling.
I had not seen this and it confirms that Julian Bliss is truly a magician of the clarinet. At his age I was still trying to play a chromatic scale wihtout squeaking.
As for the theatrics, why in the world would that bother anybody?
He plays great, he sounds great and he is entertaining on stage. If you don't like the motion, close your eyes.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-12-10 15:18
I didn't say Julian's deportment bothered me...I just don't think much of it. His playing for a 12 year old was great, but not unique. Many years ago,(everything with me is many years ago) I knew a 12 year old kid in Oakland who could play the Bassi fantasy dizzy. His mom started him on a recorder until his baby teeth checked out.
Someone remarked that Paganini had moves Heiftz knew nothing of; I wonder when he attended a Paganini concert.
There was a TV commercial recently where a piano quintet was so moved by the beauty of their own playing they finished by smashing their instruments to pieces (including piano and cello)! I thought the cellist looked a little like Yo Yo!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2006-12-10 15:26
His movement wasn't nearly in the same class as his playing. WOW! what playing.
If the movements were scripted and rehearsed, he needs to hire a better choreographer. If they were spontanous and natural, then I wouldn't care if he flopped like a fish if it helps him play like he does.
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2006-12-10 16:00
When I studied at Cleveland, John Mack (rest in peace) scolded me for moving in my orchestra auditions. He called it "ugly". He believed that whatever movement you felt to exert musically should be coming out of your horn instead (musical gestures).
On the other hand I read an article of Sabine Meyer mentioning how people have criticized her for moving too much. She said she couldn't play the music she plays without movement.
I once heard that the Berlin quintet (current) moves quite a bit (maybe for chamber purposes?).
Maybe the contemporary artist can find a compromising solution?
Watching Julian play on youtube.com was a little sea-sickening. He "bobs" up an down alot! He sounds fabulous though for a 12 year old!
Chris
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-10 16:25
Chris22311 wrote:
> Watching Julian play on youtube.com was a little sea-sickening.
> He "bobs" up an down alot!
If you also notice, the frame rate causes skips in the movement, which makes everything significantly more distracting than it would be otherwise.
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-12-10 17:15
This is the first time I have seen Julian, thank you for the post. He was only 12 and how many 12 year olds move well. I think what is the most different between Sabine Meyer's video is age and she is flowing with the music. Julian is more rigid and moving up and down. Any way he moves is fine with me, the playing is just fantastic.
...Jim
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-12-10 18:02
Julian can move all he wants. So can Sabine. They are going with the flow.
In fact, acoustic studies do confirm that movement of the instrument does indeed contribute to sound changes (figure 8 was analyzed and discussed here before)
Violinist Nicolas Kovados (sp?) bounces up and down after big passages in the Tschaikovsky concerto....even wears rubber soled shoes.....no problem.
Yo Yo closes his eyes and leans back during Don Quixote and Dvorzak concerto....
As far as his Gold tie and vest...that is a matter of taste and venue.
And Sabine was in rehearsal, but she can wear blue jeans in any performance I attend, as far as I am concerned (wink)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2006-12-10 18:58
Alseg wrote:
> In fact, acoustic studies do confirm that movement of the
> instrument does indeed contribute to sound changes (figure 8
> was analyzed and discussed here before)
>
> Violinist Nicolas Kovados (sp?) bounces up and down after big
> passages in the Tschaikovsky concerto....even wears rubber
> soled shoes.....no problem.
> Yo Yo closes his eyes and leans back during Don Quixote and
> Dvorzak concerto....
While this maybe technically true, it is irrelevant towards what this thread is pointing towards. Some people finds it distracting that Julian moves irregularaly. As a soloist he is required to put on a show! I am guessing he moves as part of his musical intuition. It is not THAT distracting, but definitely noticeable (to some more then others). We all move a little bit when we play, just not to the point where we are bending out knees on every beat. Maybe he just got a little too excited? = D
Chris
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Author: Bill
Date: 2006-12-10 19:16
I was astounded by two things: the boy's playing (which justifies almost any movement he might make), and that Old Geezer saw Marian Anderson. Just the name/image of Miss Anderson gives me the chills ... such talent, enclosed in (?) grace, (?) deep personal experience. I'm reminded of the (few) Billie Holiday videos I've seen, or the economical but potent stage presentation of Vladimir Horowitz.
A different time and place ... I wonder how Kell and Wright moved during a performance?
Bill.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-12-10 19:27
YouTube has a video of a 21 year old playing the Solo de Concours. It's interesting to compare with the 12 year old's playing.
I like them both...it's the dancing that's a wee bit hard to take.
I think I've got too much time on my hands...I'm gonna watch football now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkTxH9iCix0
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2006-12-10 20:07
I have a recording of Ricardo Morales performing Messager at ICA a few years ago. Anyone see him play at that performance?
Chris
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-12-10 20:39
-- "Of course he played very well for a 12 year old..but his stage deportment was not good,(deplorable)?" --
I thought it quite refreshing. The players that I find deplorable are those that stand stock still, looking miserable as hell.
Sometimes the kids remind us what music is all about.
Enjoyment?
Steve
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-12-10 21:09
What bugs me is when people move around like an idiot AND sound awful. Have been to quite a few performances like that.
It's interesting, though, to compare someone's sound with a listener's CONCEPT of how much a person would be moving to make that sound.
An excellent saxophone professor would tell this story when trying to get across his point that moving around degrades tone quality and forward energy while providing few benefits: After a student of his moved around particularly flambuoyantly, the professor had all his students close their eyes. He then played a piece, without moving around at all. He asked his students then what they thought he looked like, and all of them demanded that he must have been moving around wildly to make a sound like that.
It's perfectly possible to remain relatively still and not look completely miserable. I think the pendulum swings both ways on this... people are told to stand perfectly still because moving around can screw up your sound and airstream. Which I personally agree with. However, the performer can take this to an extreme, being afraid of making the slightest motion. If they can't back it up with brilliant musicianship, this also gets quite laborious to watch, and in some cases serves to magnify nervous quirks.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-12-10 23:49
Amazing playing. Period.
When he was playing fast passages combined with his movements, it reminded me of "Flight of the Bumblebee" for some reason. While yes, I found it somewhat distracting, I guess it was OK. I know if I personally move that much it will result in squeaks, tension, etc. I tend to move a little more than the average person, so we're toning it down a little to help enable proper playing conditions.
And, maybe some of you didn't like the suit, but I thought it looked cute on a 12-year-old. Endearing. And I liked his smile at the end, seemed very honest and you can tell he enjoyed himself, which is really cool.
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Author: Phat Cat
Date: 2006-12-11 00:39
IMHO, anyone who can play as well as JB can wear whayever he wants and do the moonwalk if he chooses. And unless you can play half as well on the best day of your life as he did at twelve, give the kid a break. Who the heck are we to judge someone so talented?
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-12-11 02:25
Old Geezer wrote:
> YouTube has a video of a 21 year old playing the Solo de
> Concours. It's interesting to compare with the 12 year old's
> playing.
>
> I like them both...it's the dancing that's a wee bit hard to
> take.
>
> I think I've got too much time on my hands...I'm gonna watch
> football now.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkTxH9iCix0
>
I don't like the 21 year old's suit, sort of hangs on him.
Not sour grapes or anything ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Steve Epstein
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-12-11 06:20
JB can wear whayever he wants and do the moonwalk if he chooses. And unless you can play half as well on the best day of your life as he did at twelve, give the kid a break. Who the heck are we to judge someone so talented?
Yeah! you tell them unsympathetic classical style gotta stand still or else it's bad taste, critics. =)
I think if you saw him playing live, you probably wouldn't have minded julians movements. kinda entertaining at the same time.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-12-11 07:45
no one in this post has said anything negative about the playing of either JB or the 21 year old. i think we all agree that they are very fine musicians- if Old Geezer and Steve Epstein want to comment on stage deportment they are quite entittled to do so. I have always thought that the publicity photographs of JB with the giant bow tie were something he'd be embarrassed by when he grew up (still, at least he didn't take his teddy bear on stage like Charlotte Church).
when i heard him at age 12 i thought he was a genius, he leaves that 14 year old composer guy ("Blue Pete"?) for dead as far as musical maturity is concerned. His bow tie obviously appeals to a culture that i'm not part of, just as his bouncing up and down comes from a place that Old Geezer would rather not go. It's no big deal.
donald
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2006-12-11 08:04
It was interesting and really wonderful to watch and listen to Julian perform Mozart's clarinet concerto at the Proms this year. Needless to say, the performance was top notch, and as for moving about, although there was less of it than on the youtube clip, he still likes to move a bit, which is perfectly acceptable; that's probably just the way he is and how he likes to perform. Although he did move about, I was struck by how cool, calm and collected he seemed - he just goes out there and plays that incredible music in front of all those people as if it was the most natural thing in the world for him. Well, you've got to admit that he is special!
I have watched his Proms performance several times already, and it's just awesome; one of my favourite versions of my favourite classical clarinet concerto. In my book, Julian is one of the very best clarinettists around, regardless of age, style and deportment. I don't care how he dresses, and whether he moves about or not - he can put on a miniskirt and high-heeled shoes and do the moonwalk while playing for all I care; he's still The Dude!
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-12-11 16:25
"I have a recording of Ricardo Morales performing Messager at ICA a few years ago. Anyone see him play at that performance?"
ICA, as in Interlochen? Man, I wished I could have seen it. Any chance you could post it up?
Julian's Video was absolutely astonishing! I don't think It's fair to criticize him for moving... It's his choice to make.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-11 16:39
kev182 wrote:
> "I have a recording of Ricardo Morales performing Messager at
> ICA a few years ago. Anyone see him play at that performance?"
>
> ICA, as in Interlochen? Man, I wished I could have seen it.
> Any chance you could post it up?
It was the 1995 ICA (Clarinetfest) at Arizona State University.
I was there, and yes, the performance was pretty stunning.
His entire recital that day was:
Bozza - Bucolique
Schmitt - Andantino
Widor - Introduction and Rondo
Saint-Saens - Sonata
Messager - Solo de Concours
(encore) Verdi - La Forza
I frequently re-listen to the entire tape of the concert...GBK
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-12-11 17:02
No one was critical of anyone...it was just a general observation in passing.
Sarah Chang, a fabulous prodigy, had admirable stage deportment as a 12 year old.
During a video of the Philadelphia orchestra, one of the violin section players remarked, (rather wistfully) he thought if he practiced a 100 years he would never be able to play as well as Sarah, who was nine (9!) at the time.
On the day of Julian's performance, he was acutually 13 years old...it was his birthday.
A point of view is just a point of view; lighten up guys and enjoy the ClarinetBB!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-11 17:24
I don't mean to crash the party, Geezer - but I thought child labour was forbidden or at least frowned upon here in the west?
Do you have an idea that we steal those children's childhood? I can't really fathom how many hours they spent with practising instead of playing with their friends etc. Gifted children are one thing, but we shouldn't exploit them at that early stage, really.
--
Ben
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-11 17:52
Old Geezer wrote:
>
> No one was critical of anyone...it was just a general
> observation in passing.
BS. You were extremely critical. Or have you forgotten what you wrote already?
"Of course he played very well for a 12 year old..but his stage deportment was not good,(deplorable)?
A child can be excused, but someone must be egging on such a routine. It's four years on now, does he still carry on like that?
He's studying with Sabine Meyer these days, she's not likely to tone down any showboating."
If that ain't critical, my name's not Mark ...
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2006-12-11 18:11
I guess I'm out of touch. Who is Julian? He certainly gets my vote!! My criteria for playing is how much the performance is a catalyst for me to go to practice room. After hearing a "wow" performance I want to get my hands on a clarinet. Realistically I don't recommend anyone listen to me but I just want to continue the emotional high that the performer gave to me. JP
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-12-11 18:31
Ben - in some cases, your criticism may be appropriate. In JB's case, I really think it isn't. There seems little doubt that, from the very start, he played the clarinet because he wanted to, and parental pressure had nothing to do with it.
At least with child classical musicians there isn't much doubt whether they are talented or not. I'm much more worried about child actors and the like, who are given immense adulation when in truth their only talent may be looking cute, something that tends to run out as they reach adulthood. Then they hit the ground with a bump.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2006-12-11 18:39
It's very good playing. What else do you need to know? I'm very grateful for the contribution Julian and others are making to clarinet playing. Artists are individuals and as such, are unique. Why do so many see individuality as a sign of weakness? I welcome it, personally.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-11 18:40
David,
...I was't commenting on Julian or anyone else specifically. The thought just popped into my mind.
I live in a neighbourhood where every nth parent believes theirs is a wunderkind and do everything to promote/stimulate/support their child, with an agenda that simply leaves no room for idle play. I often think of these kids when I read a "whoa! Only seven years and already ...!" post. Often I am unsure how much the child wants do do him/herself and how much is just lack of expertise in saying "no". Talent should not be the deciding factor what pastime to spend your childhood with. It may - or may not - coincide with their propensity.
--
Ben
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-12-11 21:35
Waving around is little problem for a soloist, but imagine how comical it would be if every member of an orchestra was doing his/her individual exaggerated dance.
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Author: vin
Date: 2006-12-11 21:53
Old Geezer. I hate to say it, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I saw Sarah Chang play Sibelius Concerto with the London Philharmonic just last week, and she moved around as much, no, probably, more than Julian. Most performers who move can't turn it off, and why should they if they sound great? Just because one person doesn't move, it does not therefore follow that everyone can/should do that. And, Gordon, perhaps you've never seen the woodwind section of the Berlin Philharmonic or other European orchestras, where they move a lot... and sound fantastic. If it is visually distracting... close your eyes, or don't buy a ticket.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-11 22:12
A clarinet player with excessive movement on stage is like a tennis player who "grunts" on every shot.
Each will tell you that most of the time they don't even realize they are doing it.
Are either really necessary to successful playing? Probably not.
An audience distraction? Probably.
But, get used to it, because it isn't going away anytime soon...GBK
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Author: Phat Cat
Date: 2006-12-12 03:16
Imagine how comical it would be if someone stood in front of an orchestra making exaggerated movements, grimaces and threatening gestures with a sharp stick that could not be carried on an airplane.
A suggestion for those who are bothered by the expressiveness of JB or any other superb musician: Just close your eyes and listen to the music.
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2006-12-12 05:22
wow old geezer got caught by the tail! Is he REALLY and OLD geeer? lol
The cd I'm talking about includes M. Ariggnon and the Yoko guy from Japan. Starts w/ Chausson Adante et Allegro and ends w/ a clarinet trio. I do not think it is the recital GBK listed.
The reason I brought up this performance is because it is incredibly musical. To anyone that saw that performance, did he move alot? Never seen him play and it be interesting to see how someone as talented as Ricardo actually bothers moving while playing.
I once heard Leonard Bernstein told the NY phil to inore him while he waved his hands because it was for theatrical purposes (once falling off the stage in Israel because he was flailing away too much).
This topic is getting boring, who cares who flails! Let's talk clarinet!
Chris
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-12 05:31
Chris22311 wrote:
> This topic is getting boring, who cares who flails! Let's talk
> clarinet!
[ No one is twisting your arm to read this thread or to comment on it - GBK ]
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-12-12 05:41
vin wrote; Sarah Chang moves about a lot on stage these days...I was referring to her manner as a 12 year old, some time ago.
Check out Julian's web site...he's gained some weight, looks quite fat and sassy these days.
He must have a specially made clarinet now, the logo features his name.
I spent the afternoon listening to Karl Leister CDs
sometimes those German Clarinets sound like an alto recorder with a cold! Now that's a critical observation, Mark.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-12-12 06:28
"Check out Julian's web site...he's gained some weight, looks quite fat and sassy these days."
I can only see one picture of him, and he doesn't look fat really. If he is, maybe it's because he stopped moving so much
"He must have a specially made clarinet now, the logo features his name."
Having your name like that on the clarinet really says a lot, mostly about your character. Actually, it doesn't have anything to do with anything other than your character.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2006-12-12 07:36
I can't believe people are actually commenting on Julian's weight. More than that, I find it amusing that amateur players feel they can decide world class soloists move "too much". The names mentioned here are the names of powerhouses in our field, so if they move then why is it not acceptable? The fact of the matter is that they are comfortable moving that much while playing- no matter what the motivation is. When I perform I don't feel much control of my appearance, really- are you all that "skilled" that you can work exactly the way you want to? It's always nice to hear socialites leaving the front row chatting about how the Principal Violist moves so much and that clearly he is musical, or the Concertmaster moves too much and clearly he is a showoff.....the people that comment the most about those things are usually the ones that appreciate the music (in the truest sense) the least, because they're obviously not listening enough if they can notice so many aesthetic qualities...Phat Cat said it best at the end of his comment.
At the end of the day, make your comments I guess. You're still paying these musicians' ways, and Julian Bliss is still wildly successful for someone his[our?] age.
Bradley
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-12-12 07:36
i'm not very happy about comments on a performers weight
yes, i'm a bit on the chubby side these days
donald
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Author: bawa
Date: 2006-12-12 08:33
Thanks for drawing attention to the video, OG.
tictactux, yes, there are parents who do that but there are kids who will practice for the love of it (and go to school and do their HW and the rest of it).
Here's one of the latter kind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCd0GKg72g
Some teachers here do try and get the students to control some of their movements. This one's teacher (also my son's teacher) has made them concentrate a bit more on their playing.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-12 11:56
Old Geezer wrote:
> Check out Julian's web site...he's gained some weight, looks
> quite fat and sassy these days.
Let's see, "Old Geezer" ...
Julian doesn't have a web site. Perhaps you're referring to his IMG Artist page?
http://www.imgartists.com/?page=artist&id=305
> I spent the afternoon listening to Karl Leister CDs
> sometimes those German Clarinets sound like an alto recorder
> with a cold! Now that's a critical observation, Mark.
First one of any sense you've made.
If you want to criticize someone's stage manner, fine. Their sound, fine. Their performance, fine. They're in the public eye, after all. If you're off-base, people here will let you know.
After that, the personal criticisms just show how small you are.
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-12-12 13:53
I guess this is one reason why I like rhythm and blues and jazz. In all the performances and festivals I have gone to, I haven't heard anyone criticize a persons weight or the way that they move. The artists that are the most popular get an electric current running through the audience. Just go see Big Bad Voodoo Daddy live. Maybe the classics need more performers like Sabine and Julian, they are good and interesting, they are a breath of fresh air in a stuffy room.
...Jim
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-12-12 14:32
I believe his clarinet with the gold plated keys and his name on the upper joint is a customized Leblanc Legacy, made especially for him by Morrie Backun.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-12-12 15:29
I think Dressed to Kill is right about the clarinet,
I remember Julian mentioning it in a printed interview somewhere.
In rural america, where I come from, "fat and sassy" has always been an affectionate compliment. It means healthy and vigorous; it has nothing to do with corpulence!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-12 15:31
Old Geezer wrote:
> In rural america, where I come from, "fat and sassy" has always
> been an affectionate compliment. It means healthy and
> vigorous; it has nothing to do with corpulence!
The problem (and definition) of idiom is that the phrase doesn't "travel well".
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-12-12 19:51
What bothers me more than his movement is his clothing.
Why are we surprised that classical music is getting less and less popular if we keep on dressing young stars like this. Wouldn't it be great seeing him play a clarinet dressed like any other 12 year old ? wouldn't that make the clarinet much more attractive and bring it into the mind of younger people.
we won't get popular overnight by doing this, but hé girls (and guys), classical music is fun and real coooool !! nothing for boring old chaps, like me ;-)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-12-12 21:51
But most classical music isn't cool in the sense of other kinds of music. I think it's the "BUT WHY AREN'T WE THE POPULAR ONES???? POOR ME!!!" attitude that "keeps us down." If we embrace the fact that, overall, it's kinda old and kinda nerdy but still has lots of really cool aspects to it, we can better connect to our audiences. Because, in that case, we're not fooling ourselves, and people who DO come to listen might actually end up liking it if we're not shoving it down their throats in a frantic panic of "Do you like us? DO YOU LIKE US??? PLEASE SAY YOU LIKE US!!!!!! I'LL GIVE YOU A DOLLAR! YOU DON'T LIKE IT? UNEDUCATED SLIME!!!" but rather with an air of "This is what it is, I think it's great cool stuff, perhaps you'll like it too."
If we want to connect with younger people, we should do what we do because we like to do it, and remove the musically-insignificant barriers that keep people out... stuffy concert atmospheres, demands that people like our music because it's old, gaudy self-righteousness, exhorbitant ticket prices, crippling fear of slight fudgeups... these things can be rectified WITHOUT dumbing down the music or pandering to the audience (or the wearing of enormous bowties).
/wore an obnoxiosly large multicolored bowtie at his senior composition recital
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-12 22:19
Alex,
...full ACK.
(and...do you have pictures of that recital?)
--
Ben
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2006-12-12 23:03
Julian Bond plays beautifully. Thank you for the Utube link.
Reference the comments about body movement while playing classical music, I think all orchestra members should "do their own thing," whatever movements come from the music. This would make sitting in the audience and listening to live music more interesting, since ears and eyes would be involved in listening to and seeing the music being played and bodily interpreted by the players.
Think, for example, what a more musically expressive experience the Julian Bond Utube performance would have been, had his piano accompianist ascribed to the Jerry Lee Lewis school of piano playing.
I hope these thoughts inspire some of the musicians on this forum to a more fulfilling expression of the musical experience, if not in full public, then on advertised Utube links.
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-12-12 23:22
the name's Bond, Julian Bond
and his bow tie is really a camera!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-12 23:33
Mary Jo wrote:
> Julian Bond plays beautifully.
He probably does, but I'll bet that Julian Bliss plays better...GBK
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2006-12-13 02:33
I stand corrected, and now somewhat pleased that the talented clarinet player did so exhibit bliss while coincidently being named Bliss. Thank you.
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Author: msausville
Date: 2006-12-13 04:47
I'm sure Julian would appreciate a license to kill. What son of olde Great Britain isn't a 007 fan?
Harold Wright didn't move a lot. When I saw him (in a church in MA, fairly informal and intimate setting) he sat except for the bows and introductions. He played very well indeed.
He did ooze around about a bit, with the music, but in a fairly restrained manner.
As Sylvester Stone once noted, "Different strokes for different folks."
M.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-12-13 17:24
Alex,
I think we basically say the same. I just mean it's as cool as anything else, but not everybody notices this. Indeed also because of the "musically-insignificant barriers that keep people out", and because some of use don't want to understand that we are 'only just as cool' as the others (and not cooler).
Just had this experience last weekend, I wanted to organise a little concert for friends : some of us playing, some of us listening, all relaxed, good music, ... the people that took care of the practical arrangements just made a 'sacred' event out of it. Including some deadly silences, incredibly serious comments, and a 'please don't laugh or relax' attitude.
Peter
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-12-13 19:59
All I can say about Julian is good. I don't have a problem with his movements because his playing is so good. And to think...he was 12!! I'm afraid I might get caught watching one of his performances in person with my mouth open and my jaw dropped the whole time. Now, wouldn't that be lovely? I guess as long as I don't drool.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-12-13 21:05
tictactux wrote:
> (and...do you have pictures of that recital?)
I have video somewhere at home (though I don't know how close it's zoomed in). Will look for it and ask friends/parents for pictures. The audio is on my website.
I do, however, think there's a world of difference between wearing a large bowtie in the "huzzah for me the performer and for olde-style showmanship and feats of marvaelous wonderment" context and the "holy crap, bowtie!!!!" context (with nonchalant obliviousness) with which I wore mine.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-12-13 23:38
Acceptable and appropriate behaviour is always related to the number of people involved. I can do what I like in solitude, and I do. When with a group of friends, the limitations begin. In a classroom more limitations. In an assembly hall, more still.
So extravagant movement while playing, is a matter of situation.
Mary wrote:
"Reference the comments about body movement while playing classical music, I think all orchestra members should "do their own thing," whatever movements come from the music. "
Julian was performing as a soloist. He can do what he likes. If he were playing Rossini, and the piano was playing plonk, plonk, plonk, then it would be thoroughly rude for the pianist to wave around as much as Julian. I would see it as attention seeking - an attempt to upstage the soloist. But if the piano part had a lot more significance, then sure, .... WITH Julian's permission.
Note that the orchestra in the background, not playing, had the courtesy to keep stone still, not detracting from the soloist.
However in an orchestral situation, if all the players have movement control except one (usually a flute player!!), outside a solo situation, then that player is doing nothing more than a childish look-at-me performance, non unlike a kid's tantrum.
If many players are moving a little in an orchestra, fine, providing they pay eachother the courtesy of keeping the limits below the look-at-me-ahead-of-everybody-else level. To otherwise is self-centred.
But Mary's concept of EVERYBODY in an orchestra "doing their own thing... whatever movements come from the music", with no limits, takes along an unacceptable route. With some musicians being the attention seekers that they are, it could easily look comical or ridiculous, and need a lot more stage space. Perhaps I would like to memorise my part and dance around the stage, swiping violinists out of action as I pass them , to clam more attention on myself as I passed them.
Closer to reality, I would not last long in a professional pit orchestra if I waved as much as Julian, drawing the most attention of anyone in the theatre, while there was a sensitive aria moment on stage.
It is all a matter degree, for the number of players involved, and of common courtesy.
BTW I think any distractive qualities of Julian's playing would seem a lot less in a large hall live, rather than a narrow-angle video clip.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2006-12-13 23:51
Julian didn't want to move like that.
His teacher Mayer made him do this so that everybody know he's her student.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-14 01:50
Koo Young Chung wrote:
> His teacher Mayer made him do this so that everybody know he's
> her student.
Hopefully you're just trying to make a bad joke ...
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2006-12-14 09:29
Gordon,
I salute you for a thoughtful and kind response to my modest proposal for musicians, involving satire. Your evaluation of player movement in the entire orchestra seems right on the money. Thank you.
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Author: Rivers
Date: 2006-12-14 11:18
Jonathan Carney, concertmaster of the Baltimore Symphony, practically leaps out of his chair while performing. I guess no one has schooled him on how to maintain proper decorum while playing with an orchestra.
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The Clarinet Pages
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