 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: D
Date: 2006-07-23 17:58
I couldn't find this in the archive, although I am sure it is there somewhere.
Is there a set point at which orchestral bass clarinet music in bass clef switches to treble clef for high notes? I notice that by the time you get to clarion A or B the leger lines are up in the stratosphere (unless I have confused my self about octaves) and the staves would have to be very far apart to get in higher notes. But there is at least another octaves worth left in the clarinet.
Anyone know where this is explained simply, preferably with pictures!
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-07-23 18:02
almost all bass clarinet music is in treble cleff.
occassionally the lower 4,5 notes will be in bass cleff , but thats rare.
almost everything you see will be in treble cleff, for the entire range of the instrument.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-07-23 19:19
There are examples of basset horn music where the clef changes mid measure:
- an edition of Non Piu di Fiore (Mozart)
- an edition of Beethoven's Prometheus ballet music
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-07-24 00:33
The Mozart manuscripts where he switched basset horn clefs in mid-measure are in the Morgan Library. He also used different color inks and wrote sarcastic comments in the margin. They're practical jokes he played on Stadler and not necessary to keep extreme notes within the clef.
Perhaps Dan can give us more information and let us know how it was handled in the New Mozart Edition.
When the basset horn part is in treble clef and the composer uses the lowest notes, they're often in bass clef to avoid ledger lines. Larry, does that account for the switch?
Ken Shaw
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-07-24 03:53
Ken,
Yes, avoiding ledger lines at the bottom accounts of the switches.
On the other hand, the Peters Edition of the Mendelssohn Konzertstuecke (Rainer Schottstadt, editor) stays in the treble clef throughout and is a good example of ledger lines falling into the abyss below.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2006-07-24 05:44
I hate too many ledger lines... a lot of the time I wish things were just "8va". It's Not that it's hard reading, it just looks messy.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-07-24 07:50
Confusing indeed. there is even a famous case in Petroushka, where in the 1941 version, Stranvinski rewrote a complete scene in treble clef, to solve the confusion
I'm studying bass clarinet for a few years now, and after 25 years of Bb in treble clef, started to use bass clef again (learned it in music school, ages) ago.
It still is quite funny though when (luckily only during rehearsals) concentration gets down, I sometims automatically 'presume' treble clefs ...
I still can't get through with playing a A Bass clarinet part written in bass clef on a Bb bass though,but I'm not a pro, and definately not a pro-transposer ;-)
Symphonic repertoire for the Bass Clarinet by Michael Drapkin gives my lots of fun trying all these.
I never really wondered why they did this. I think most of the time there was a 'local' orchestral situation during the composition.
Also using a transposed treble key is just simple for Bb players that have to switch, and the composer was considerate ;-)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-07-24 11:32
Richard Strauss: Several works that fly up into the tenor clef.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: D
Date: 2006-07-24 17:28
I guess the only answer then is to hope to get the music a few days in advance! thanks for all those posts, I see now why I have been unable to work it out myself!
I am sort of glad it will take me a while to save the money for a bass now...
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-07-25 01:12
The Germans still use bass clef ... I have no problem reading bass clef on a bass clarinet ... it's just common sense. Then again, as a violist, I also read alto clef with fluency.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-07-25 13:14
Paul Aviles wrote:
"Richard Strauss: Several works that fly up into the tenor clef."
They fly, no doubt, but I have never seen a Strauss work (or anybody else) use tenor clef for the bass clarinet in my 50+ year career as an orchestral clarinetist/bass clarinetist!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-07-25 13:48
Well said Larry B, nor have I ever seen "tenor clef" used, however most of my playing is of "contemporary" music. Doesn't most of this earlier clef confusion result from the [fundemental] MIS-NOMER of "bass", where it is truly a "tenor" clarinet ? Most of the other cls are named in accord with the "vocal" S A T B, and its subdivisions. The newer composers often write for the Low C [extended] inst. I play my Eb, and have run into some low D's, and write in "D" so as to not play my F. Ho-hum !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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