 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fontalvo
Date: 2006-05-22 23:41
Does anyone know who won this audition. I think it is either today or tomorrow. Thanks
R
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-05-23 01:22
Is that Charleston SC or Charleston W Va.? If it's SC, I live there and can check when I get home this weekend, if nobody else posts first.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-05-23 13:39
Tony, I think the West Virginia town is Charlestown (with a 'w'), where the horse racetrack is. As far as I know they don't have an orchestra there.
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Author: Scotti
Date: 2006-05-23 13:52
There is a Charleston, WV and a Charleston, SC. In addition, there is a Charles Town, WV.
Charleston, WV has a per service orchestra.
The recent audition was for the Charleston, SC Symphony Orchestra.
So who won???
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2006-05-23 21:08
A friend of mine who attended this audition said the humidity was so high that her fingers slipped off the keys. Worst of all was the auditon was in a very small room and the panel was separated from the candidates by a curtain placed merely feet away. At one point during the audition, someone on the panel was unhappy with the tempo my friend chose and this person began to tap loudly on the table the tempo he/she preferred.
In my experience, the auditions for the smaller orchestras have the most outlandish lists and are the worst run; from appearances this one was no exeption.
I have no idea who won.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-05-23 21:19
From the orchestra's web site:
"...The CSO has a 37-week season beginning September 18, 2006. The salary for this position is currently $17,482..."
$472 a week
Ouch...GBK
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2006-05-23 21:25
I just read an article about a new contract for Charleston. It brings the pay up somewhere around 21-22,000 a year for section players. Still not great, but better than it has been.
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Author: Ben
Date: 2006-05-24 01:58
Also, the cost of living must be much less there than other parts of the country.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2006-05-24 05:07
Those aren't good numbers anywhere, unless you're going to live off the grid or something like that.
Steve Epstein
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-05-24 11:29
The cost of living use to be very reasonable, but the area is being discovered by retirees and industry. Back 7 or 8 years ago you could get a nice house for under $100K. Today that same place will be pushing $200K. Taxes are going up like mad too.
Sorry to hear that the audition was so poorly run. They do better than that at the all state band tryouts! Humidity is a problem, especially in the summer. But, that's why AC was invented. There is no excuse for that kind of dampness in an audition setting. There are several outdoor concerts in the CSO schedule. I understand that the contract has temperature requirements, but not humidity, and that can be just as bad. It's actually been fairly dry this spring.
If no one posts first, I'll find out the results when I get home Monday. I'm in Boston this week for work.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-08 13:19
Gretchen wrote:
> No one won, they're re-auditioning in September
Thus, a $21,000 job goes unfilled ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-06-08 19:12
No wonder I couldn't find out anything! I asked several friends last week who generally know, but the word was that there was no word.
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2006-06-09 01:42
this orchestra really needs to get pver themselves. I can't believe that no one at that audition met the high artistic standards of this orchestra.
Give me a break. You can easily make 30k just teaching private lessons. For 20K, id rather sit and watch my HDTV
best
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-09 03:57
RodRubber wrote:
> this orchestra really needs to get pver themselves. I can't
> believe that no one at that audition met the high artistic
> standards of this orchestra.
I agree...
Unless every one of the available, highly talented clarinetists in the USA all decided that a $21,000 symphony position was not worth their time or effort to audition, it does seem peculiar that no one met the standards of the Charleston Orchestra.
I can certainly understand that a clarinetist currently employed by a 1st, 2nd or even 3rd tier orchestra would not be interested in the above available position. But with the dozens (hundreds?) of clarinetists leaving conservatories and entering the job market or available unemployed clarinetists currently seeking employment, the committee still could not find what they were seeking?
It will be interesting to see how this finally is resolved...GBK
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2006-06-09 04:23
It will be interesting, GBK :-).
Anyway, sometimes orchestras' committees are looking for something in particular. It might not be what we think they 'deserve', but that's just how things go- and it's their right. They are the ones that have to play with this new person, not you. It's not a matter of talent- I bet all the people that took the audition were talented enough to get by with the job if they got it, but it's about the panel's taste. Sometimes the person who left the vacancy has big shoes to fill- I don't know if that's the case with the CSO, but it would certainly add to the problem we're discussing.
Have you been following the recent flute auditions? It's a much worse case of "we don't like none a' ya'll" with their recent auditions it seems.
I think it's garbage to have so many wasted auditions, but at the same time I can't see myself settling on a panel just because it's the polite thing to do.
Bradley
Post Edited (2016-10-03 07:27)
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2006-06-09 04:50
Bradley wrote:
> Sometimes the
> person who left the vacancy has big shoes to fill- I don't know
> if that's the case with the CSO, but it would certainly add to
> the problem we're discussing.
Actually, the current 1st clarinetist WAS the second clarinetist. he took the 1st clarinet job when the former 1st clarinetist left for Vancouver. A little "musical chairs" in action!
~Gretchen
Post Edited (2006-06-09 04:51)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-09 04:59
Bradley wrote:
> Anyway, sometimes orchestras' committees are looking for
> something in particular.
That is the great intangible that is never defined.
Did they want a dark sound or a more resonant sound?
Was the projection of all the candidates not adequate?
Not enough orchestral experience?
Was potential blending within the section a problem?
Vibrato or no vibrato?
Did the candidates not have a "big name" teacher in their resume or not come from a "big name" university program?
Although it certainly is their perogative to hire who they think is the best fit, just once, I'd like to hear from an audition committee explaining what was lacking (or what was not present) for them to choose no one.
Probably won't happen ...GBK
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2006-06-09 05:04
actually, GBK, they offered comments to everyone who went if they were asked for them...so they were willing to justify their decisions.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-09 05:13
Do you happen to know of any specific comments which were given to any of the audition candidates? (no names please)
Ex: "Technique not up to our standards" "Not the sound we are looking for" etc...
...GBK
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-06-09 12:42
The whole curtain thing is so quaint.
Bob Draznik
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Author: vin
Date: 2006-06-09 13:50
This is pish-posh. Anyone who ever has sat on a committee in a professional orchestra knows that it is not a question of a committee's ego. Everybody WANTS to hire someone (no one wants to listen to auditions all day). It is possible that no one plays well enough to hire. This has nothing to do with thinking one's own orchestra is "too" good. The professional orchestra I play in has a some superlative players but is hardly a top tier ensemble. That being said, in the screened auditions I have heard, 90% of the people had no idea what they were doing (rhythm, intonation, yes, but even just knowing how the piece goes). Now, for the other ten percent, I have been on committees that came down to three very qualified people in the finals...I have also been on committees where only one person played at all well in the finals and if that person hadn't been there, we certainly wouldn't have taken any of the four other finalists. This isn't to do with overvaluing the level of the orchestra, but how can you possible admit someone membership if there are glaring errors (and for the record, a wrong note here or there is not a glaring error- an inability to play the same note that is repeated several times in tune IS). While there may be several people who were "qualified" for this Charleston job, none of us were on the committee and heard what they heard- again, it is quite possible no one played well enough to win. I hate when (even good) players come back from auditions and say "I played perfectly, but didn't advance"- well, obviously, it wasn't perfect. The best players make the choice very easy- there is no mystery. Committees aren't out to get people, they are musicians with ears just like us.
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Author: clairannette
Date: 2006-06-09 16:38
Another thing to consider is that there were two other auditions at the same time- Principal for Fort Worth and Principal for Winston-Salem. Obviously, more people would choose to go to Ft. Worth over Charleston- it's a better position and pays over three times as much. I'm not sure how many people were in Charleston, but maybe the committee felt that they weren't getting that many players, or the highest quality? Just a thought....
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Author: jareddavis
Date: 2006-06-09 18:20
I fully agree! I've sat on several audition committees for my orchestra, and sometimes you cannot hire anyone for whatever reason...Maybe there is another audition happening at the same time (Ft. Worth and Charleston were a day apart), etc. There are many factors. There are times, even for smaller orchestras, where no one meets the standard. I think it is obvious to any committee who should or should not advance. It's not that orchestras always have ridiculously high standards. In most cases, committess are looking for solid playing meaning candidates have their fundamentals in order (good sound, pitch, rhythm). Also, it has been my experience that the smaller orchestra DO have more reasonable repertoire lists. One of the auditions I took last year had 30 full pieces on the list including some Mahler symphonies!!!
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2006-06-09 18:32
GBK, they told the candidates that whoever wanted to know their comments, could email them and they would send them out. That's all I know.
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Author: Fontalvo
Date: 2006-06-09 20:16
for those of u who are proffesionals....
what do u think is the main reason most people dont advance
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-09 21:14
Fontalvo wrote:
> for those of u who are proffesionals....
>
> what do u think is the main reason most people dont advance
The top 3 reasons
Rhythm
Rhythm
Rhythm
...GBK
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2006-06-09 23:03
I think you got 2 and 3 backwards, GBK.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-06-09 23:06
ok GBK, that's what you think.
I think something more along the lines of:
intonation
tone
rhythm
is more accurate.
But then... I live (and sit on audition panels) in Europe. Perhaps you have different priorities over there?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-09 23:17
Intonation and tone can be learned - rhythm (IMHO) can't...
--
Ben
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Author: tomkinsonl
Date: 2006-06-10 02:48
Surely, Liquorice, if a note is played with perfect intonation and a beautiful tone but in the wrong place - then it is entirely wrong......
Luke
Rhythm, rhythm, rythm :-)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-10 08:09
well, you're wrong...
Rhythm can be learned? I mean, it can be perfected, but if your internal timer is inaccurate to begin with...
--
Ben
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Author: Phil O'Connor
Date: 2006-06-10 10:38
You assume the people on the panel may have perfect rhythm and pitch perception, while many do not....................Ultimately, the best way to be one of the last people standing behind the screen is to play MUSICALLY, with convincing rhythm, excellent and accurate articulation, and demonstrate a high level of experience. This comes through, and does make a large difference. There is NO one right person for any job. And, there is no way any orchestra wants to keep hiring substandard players- every one I know that has listened to auditions wants to sit on stage alongside a great, humble, and hard working artist, without fail. It is important to exhibit the smallest attention to detail while trying to win a post ANYWHERE- for what it is worth..............
Post Edited (2006-06-10 10:39)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-06-10 13:41
Ben wrote:
"Rhythm can be learned? I mean, it can be perfected, but if your internal timer is inaccurate to begin with..."
I wasn't born with an accurate internal timer (I wonder if anybody is?) But one of my early clarinet teachers drummed accurate subdivision into me. I later worked with a jazz trumpet player who gave me some really neat excercises with a metronome. I'm not saying my rhythm is perfect, but it's certainly improved due to years of hard work.
By the way Ben, you were up late last night?!
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2006-06-10 16:54
Hi folks,
OK, since this position is still open, who has the complete repertoire list? Thanks.
Lori
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-10 21:27
By the way Ben, you were up late last night?!
I was migrating a 'puter system for a customer - remotely. Had to wait till that [expletive] backup was done...we computer folks have funny service hours.
Re the rhythm: you do need a basic feeling of what rhythm is. Back in the army we had some two or three guys who weren't even able to march lock-step. They simply didn't have that gene, somehow. In order to 'use' rhythm, you must feel that internal ticker. If you don't, well, tough call. I'm not sure if you can improve something that just isn't there.
Anyhow, basically I'm with Phil. Play it musically, in a convincing fashion. I recently had a (friendly) argument with my teacher whether to play that certain passage broad and loud or staccato and piano. Either was right, one could see it this or that way. Maybe the 'art' consists in playing it in a manner that appears 'natural' or 'logical', interpreting and not slavishly reproducing what's on the paper. Just like translating a book which rarely can be done excellent and verbatim at the same time.
--
Ben
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