 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2006-04-06 11:00
I woke up early this morning so I was on the computer looking at various clarinet related web sites and I something struck me as really strange. The amazing amount of "artists" there are. We have: Clarinet artists; mouthpiece artists; reed artists;and even ligature artists. I'm sitting here really perplexed by this. Do clarinetists really buy a piece of equipment because Dr. X uses it at University of west nowhere, or Mr. X plays this in the "Last place on Earth philharmonic" Do clarinetists find these useful? Do clarinetists even believe that the artists play what they say they play?
In an effort to have more disclosure on the board. I will say this I'm a Yamaha performing artist. I play a Yamaha SEV, and until someone builds something that plays better for me, I will keep playing it. So before I get emails from everyone telling me what they think is better I'll add this: If a Bb clarinet mouthpiece will fit on it, I either have it in my basement or had it and it ended up on ebay. But I digress, what Yamaha has done for me, has been to help defer some expenses for concerts that I was going play anyway. Thus making it easier for the venue to afford to do the concert or master class. That makes sense, if you're building a good clarinet you want to sell them, lets help someone who plays it reach more people.
What is the responsibility of "artists" to other clarinetists and to the companies they are artists for? I know I've seen some really flaky "artist" stuff, and I've know we've all heard the various "artist urban legends" He doesn't really play that clarinet in performances, or he plays brand X but has had brand Z's logo put on it. Or they pay him or her six figures for to play that or they would play something else.He or she didn't win the job on that. I'm sure there is more.
Maybe someone out there can shed some light on this phenomena for me, or better yet share some really "out there" stories. Maybe even mo betta--have an ideas for the ethics of endorsements!
Tom Puwalski, former soloist with the US Army Field Band, Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, and Author of "The Clarinetist's Guide to Klezmer"and most recently by the order of the wizard of Oz, for supreme intelligence, a Masters in Clarinet performance
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2006-04-06 12:27
This sort of advertisement is aimed mainly at the inexperienced buyer;
often a parent buying for a child. It's like choosing a Truck based on the animal figurine up front...
*****
I can remember seeing a rather famous Jazz player scorch a set on his beat-up, jonesed hard rubber clarinet that smelled like a musty humidor.
When it came time for pitchas, afta - he pulled out his sponsor's instrument for the cameras. Clik, clik, clik sign the chek, chek, chek.
Furthermore, how many of the instruments played by endorsers are stock?
When choosing an instrument that they actually play, there pool for selection is MUCH broader than our retail venues.
****
May I suggest "Latkes & Pernod" for your next ensemble?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-04-06 13:22
(Disclaimer - I am maker of the Forte' clarinets Bb & C, The Doctor of Doctor's products making woodwind use and care products and now guitar products, nobody's "artist", and offer only my own perspective, observations and bias)
The twisted web of "artists" encompasses the world's of "fame", notoriety, advertising, business, hard cash, friendships, and there are many nuances and permutations of all aspects combined in "endorsements". Endorsements by notable people have been a stable element in advertising throughout history. Notables are used in direct connection with their field of endeavor and even in unrelated fields of advertising most notably by sports figures, actors, or very successful or "rich" individuals. The advertising industry must feel that endorsements are good use of advertising dollars to sell products in a variety of markets because they continue to use this tool.
The perceived value of attaching the "name", picture, personal endorsement or association with a particular company, brand, or article depends on the judgment of management which is influenced by the marketing and advertising groups within a company. Notably, different companies place more or less value on this aspect. Companies handle the spectrum of endorsements in different ways which may include just print or multimedia presentations or a wide use of the "artist" figure as a clinician presenting clinics or personal appearances with a dedicated company affiliation.
Individuals giving endorsements are influenced by their own sense of integrity - the degree to which their endorsement embodies their true feelings about a product, the perceived value in dollars received, discounts granted, or increase their own exposure and "image" generated by the advertising itself, self-giving due to friendships or relationships with others, or personal independence leading to split loyalties. Some "notables" seek or solicit endorsements while others eschew giving endorsements at all.
Companies also put different constraints on their "endorsers" based on their perceived influence over the endorser due to monies paid, discounts given, or the degree of interaction and "independence" of the individual. Constraints seem to be higher if there is direct competition with another company involved, fight for market share or penetration sought with a new product.
From my own personal experience I have been fortunate to have associations with individuals - some famous, some infamous, some friends, and some just talented with no fame or fortune that have tried my wares and have spoken up in favor of them with no pay or perks offered. In balance, some have tried my products and seen no significant improved value. I have also been solicited by notables that have quoted prices ranging from 4 to 6 zero dollar amounts for their endorsement for a product. Some companies could care less about endorsement of my wares by their artists because the product is not in competition or they apparently view the competition as insignificant. One company asked their artist to remove the endorsement of my product or loose their "artist" privileges. At some point other company’s views may change if they become concerned by competition. Some companies forbid endorsement by their artists for other products while some are concerned but none the less tolerate the independence of the artist to tacitly speak their minds on products as part of their commercial understanding with the individual.
Just like politics, "endorsements" involve influence, money, lust, and power.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-04-06 13:32
Tiger Woods plays golf for a living. Golf is just a game (or sport, if you wish) which really does nothing for mankind in terms of improving the human condition. Mr. Woods certainly makes a decent income from winning golf matches, it's true -- but I heard recently that he is a BILLIONAIRE --- most of this money, of course, comes from endorsement of products and services, the vast majority of which have NOTHING TO DO with golf. How does a bank provide you with better financial services because Tiger Woods is on their advertisements? Does a set of pants really look better on YOU because Mr. Woods' is wearing a pair in a magazine spread?
Don't confuse reality with perception, or logic with marketing. If it helps to sell a product, an endorsement will be made, and money will change hands. That's all there is to it.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-04-06 14:01
David:
How does a bank provide you with better financial services because Tiger Woods is on their advertisements? Does a set of pants really look better on YOU because Mr. Woods' is wearing a pair in a magazine spread?
I think it is the other way round: You see Tiger Woods on a billboard wearing some kind of pants. You take notice of the brand. You see Tiger woods flashing a bank card. You notice the brand.
Nothing happens as you neither need a bank nor new pants. Two weeks later, nothing continues to happen as you're still happy with what you have.
But one day you browse through Macy's (no endorsement here) stuff and stop at that specific brand - it just sounds a bit less unknown than others. (of course, there are other criteria that influence your decision). But w/o Tiger Woods you wouldn't have noticed that brand name in the first place.
Endorsers just help to a) advertise a brand name ("Buttwear? Never heard of.") and/or b) positively connotate that brand ("hey, if TW wears them, they can't be all that bad"). They're only door openers.
Quite the contrary can happen if an endorser is acting up. Remember Kate Moss and H&M? They dropped her like a hot potato after word got round about her drug addiction. ("Fooey, doesn't look like a store for the kids")
--
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-04-06 14:22
Ben, your comments are spot-on. But getting back to clarinets: generally endorsements are made with brands which (I would think) are familiar to most of the potential purchasers, wouldn't you agree? Seems to me that the advanced clarinetists who are out there looking to buy (or even remotely considering the possibility or purchasing) are already somewhat or very familiar with Yamaha, Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc etc. as BRAND NAMES. I would agree that in the case of parents buying an instrument (or accessories) for their advancing child, that may not be the situation, and what you wrote is 100% relevant.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-04-06 14:46
Eighty plus percent of sales of woodwind instruments, accessories, and associated products are sold to indivduals with 3 years or less playing experience - NAMM statistics.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-04-06 14:48
David,
Everyone is a potential buyer. Always.
Endorsers help a brand to remain in the "top x brands" group. If eg Yamaha decided to drop endorsements and the like, how long do you think they remained in the "top group", even among pros who know how good they are? ("Yamaha? Yes, they've been famous, but it's quite a time since someone showed around a new instrument from them")
OTOH, how would an emerging brand make it a "top brand" if not via word of mouth or more verbosely via an endorser? Needn't be a famous musician (it surely helps, though), but just an ambassador to show stuff around.
And even connaisseurs suffer from GAS syndrome and every so often want to try something new.
--
Ben
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-04-06 14:56
I think word of mouth is the most potent endorsement.
It works in the surgical profession.
Alternatively, I know people who see a local internist because he is soooo handsome and dresses well.
That would be my least important criterion for chosing his services.
as far as clarinet accessories go (disclaimer, I make and sell handmade barrels) I choose to add only freely-given endorsements to my web links, and whoever chooses to use my barrels is free to use those of anyone else.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-04-06 15:06
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> Mr. Woods certainly
> makes a decent income from winning golf matches, it's true --
> but I heard recently that he is a BILLIONAIRE ---
"According to financial experts, Woods' net worth should surpass $1 billion by 2013, if not sooner. " - Golf Digest
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-04-06 15:14
Seems I was somewhat premature in attributing billionaire status to Tiger Woods -- so I guess he's just a regular poor person like the rest of us. My apologies........
![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-04-06 15:42
Endorsement horror story:
I used to build custome bicycles. I once built a bike for a young man who had just won a re-paint job at the San Diego Velodrome. I built him the custom, bio-bitchin' ultra fast, super machine and GAVE it to him expecting that his performance would benefit my reputation as the designer/builder of great racing equipment. When I next saw him, MY bike was painted and equipped with a competitor's decals! The other shop had offered to pay his hotel bills on the racing circuit if he'd ride "their decals."
(He ended up being a 2-time Olympic Silver medalist.)
I other instances, I had racers come to me with their bicycle sponsor's chit for a new bike, so I actually built my competitor's bikes.
Bob Phillips
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-04-06 17:47
(Disclaimer - I am maker of the Forte' Bb and C clarinets)
It often amuses me (I love it though) at the arcane discussions that we have on the BB after returning from various state music educator's conferences and interacting with elementary, middle and high school band directors and music educators whose plight is light years away. The vast audience and cash cow is in their back yard. No doubt there are advanced programs scattered about but they are in the minority. Instrument makers and reed companies know where the money is and many "artists" and endorser's job as well as print media is to help sway this group. An advertisement of the Simpsons playing XYZ instrument would no doubt garner better response and brand recognition than e.g. Carl Leister's endorsement for XYZ. A certain amount of attention has to be paid to our more experienced 15-20% of the market however to preserve the fragile high end market.
BTW- Thanks to Selmer Paris for sponsoring John Cippolo for an Atlanta master class and concert.
A recent initiative of the Atlanta Clarinet Association is to offer services to local schools that ask for help with their woodwind sections. We put together a syllabus of topics (e.g. improving tone, reed and mouthpiece issues, etc.) which we thought would be of interest but were surprised that when we presented it to band directors that they wanted help with the most elementary of issues - e.g. getting the clarinet player to make a sound approaching a commonly accepted note!
L. Omar Henderson
Post Edited (2006-04-06 18:48)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-04-06 20:02
"Golf is just a game (or sport, if you wish) which really does nothing for mankind in terms of improving the human condition."
I'm really mulling that one over, Dave.
Bob Draznik
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-04-06 20:43
Bob D,
I'm obviously not a golf fan (although lots of people I know are obsessed with it) -- I was being semi-facetious, but still I don't believe the sport of golf provides cultural enrichment or a worthy outlet for the energies of children as does, say, clarinet playing for example.............
Best not to think too deeply sometimes.
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Author: calclar
Date: 2006-04-07 03:47
The value of endorsers? I can think of at least one name or possibly two that have used the system jumping from one endorser to another. It's used for their own selfish benefits and financial gain. How many products have you seen their name or image given to endorsement who plays principal clarinet in Philadelphia? Only to turn around the next year ot two to find that they've endorsed the competeing brand of the same type of produst? Once? Twicwe? Several times?
It's not always a two way street.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2006-04-07 04:00
Is it selfish or is it just business? If someone came to you and said they would pay you to play their instrument that they will custom build for you, you'd take it right? I would at least try the instrument. And we're not talking a C note, we're talking a LOT of money!!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-04-07 04:09
calclar wrote:
> How many products have you seen their name or image
> given to endorsement who plays principal clarinet in Philadelphia?
> Only to turn around the next year ot two to find that they've
> endorsed the competeing brand of the same type of produst
As was uttered by ‘Deep Throat’ to Bob Woodward back in the early 70s:
"...Follow the money..."
...GBK
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-04-07 07:15
I know one clarinet player who seemed to be on the "Pimp My Clarinet" show (like that American show "Pimp My Ride"). Every last part of his setup is an endorsement, and it was obvious it is very valuable - to him and to the companies!
A lot of his students were buying the stuff, and he probably got it for free. One good thing about it is companies will have their products available and a lot of people can try them.
In my country there is almost no endorsement at all with clarinet products, since the market is so small. It is good because people are less affected by "big names", but it is bad because we have very few products available at all.
Unless you are playing in the Philharmonic or a successful soloist that travels, you are unlikely to know many companies other than Vandoren, Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, Yamaha, and other main ones, and even most models from those are special order.
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