 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Saxguy007
Date: 2006-03-24 13:53
Dear all,
I am a sax player who has historically doubled on clarinet because he has to. Back in 1993 I bought used a Buffet R-13 that my instructor (Brian Grivna, formerly of the Minnesota Orchestra and Buddy Rich Band) found for me that struck him as a decent specimen. At his recommendation, I got a Hite Premiere piece to get started, and I have basically used that setup since.
I find that in order not to be flat with my setup, I have to use 4-strength reeds, and the mouthpiece, barrel, and upper bore (well, basically the whole instrument) has to be touching FLUSH, with nothing pulled out. I have never been sharp with this instrument.
I recently got a JodyJazz Classic mouthpiece in the 6 facing for my R-13 in hopes that a jazz piece could enable me to be a bit more expressive, and enjoy playing the instrument more. I love Eddie Daniels' jazz work, and could listen to his clarinet sound all day. The jodyjazz sax pieces I own for tenor and bari sax are fantastic, so I thought I'd give his clarinet piece a try.
The facing on the JodyJazz 6 is .060, whereas the Vandoren B45 is only .046. Therefore, using a 4 reed on it was not successful. Even the vandoren 3 I had was unacceptably airy. I had a box of 2.5's a coworker had given me when her daughter quit playing, and when I put one on, the sound was fantastic! The notes popped out full, phat, and woody, and I was bending and scooping with glee. For the first time since I bought the instrument, it was not fighting me.
As you can imagine, tho, with that thin a reed, the instrument was flat- not only globally, but the clarion register was flat compared to the lower register.
I am hoping that maybe some other reed specimens in a 3 might be just hard enough to get the upper register more in tune, but not so stiff as to add airiness. I doubt this will be enough tho.
I am wondering if maybe the barrel that came with it was too long, and if purchasing a shorter barrel, or an adjustable click barrel would solve my problem. In nosing around the internet, what few reviews of the locking CLICK barrel suggest that it is a cheap work-around that impairs the tone quality of the instrument. Have some of you found this to be true?
Is there a variant of wood barrels I could try in a short length? How do I measure the barrel I have, from outer rim to outer rim? Would I need a caliper to accurately measure it- or would the length be stamped somewhere on the barrel itself?
I would be grateful for any suggestions as to whether a new barrel might help me pull the instrument up to pitch, and if so, what barrel sculpt/design lends itself to a fat New Orleans-ish sound.
If I could solve this intonation problem, for the first time, I could play the clarinet and really love it!
Thanks,
Jim Bjork
www.jamesbjork.com
When vivisecting cats, remember: earplugs are cheaper than anaesthetics!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-03-24 14:34
Jim, I believe a shorter barrel is just the ticket for you. I would suggest a 65mm barrel. Stay away from Click barrels. There are several good ones out there in various price ranges--but wood is always good--unless you want something synthetic. In fact, there are several great barrel makers who frequent this board and I'll bet they'll be answering your question pretty soon.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-03-24 17:50
How much clarinet do you play? Saxophone has a significantly looser embouchre than clarinet, which makes for flatter playing until you've been on clarinet a while, and perhaps not even then.
Have you tried asking a seasoned clarinetist to try your setup for intonation?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Saxguy007
Date: 2006-03-24 18:40
I concur about the embouchure difference, and I certainly concede that I have put down but a fraction of the face-hours of primary clarinetists. However, I had the loose sax face drilled out of me ASAP when taking lessons from REAL clarinet players. I shift gears when I play clarinet, and I form the more muscle-driven, controlled rigid embouchure typical of primary clarinet players. This tight clarinet face is also necessary to get my soprano sax setup (Selmer C*) controlled and in tune as well. c.f. later segments in:
http://www.jamesbjork.com/SoundClips/SmoothJazz.mp3
The sound I get from my legit clarinet setup sounds very typically classical, so I don't think this is the culprit. However, the guy in the 2nd tenor chair in the reading big band in which I play has done Broadway pit gigs for decades, and I see no harm in him giving it a go with the jazz piece I just picked up.
Still hoping some barrel gurus will weigh in.
Jim Bjork
When vivisecting cats, remember: earplugs are cheaper than anaesthetics!
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-03-24 19:05
Often the length is stamped on the barrel. My R13 has a "660" on it, meaning 66.0mm. I think that tends to be what comes with R13s, but I don't know if it's always been that way. I was too sharp, bought a 66.5. Perhaps try some 65mm barrels of various makers?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2006-03-24 22:16
SaxGuy; I am one who uses a Marca #2 or 2.5 on the Selmer CP100 to get a big "phat" sound. It has a facing opening of 1.22 mm, not as open as the reeds would seem to require, but the chamber inside (inside the duckbill) is huge unlike those tiny Vandorens which makes less pressure on a soft reed to keep from blowing it off the table. If the clarion register is flat remember that the upper part and lower part of the register can be raised by simply making the register key open further or enlarging its hole, but the middle part cannot be changed this way. Experiment by playing this register then let the register key down and up while still holding whatever note. You will not notice a difference in the middle, however. I am happy with my jazz sound, now if only I knew more notes, I always say, Ken
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-03-24 22:33
Sounds like the shorter barrel would do just fine without resorting to anything fancier as long as there are no other intonation problems, only being globally flat.
A tech can shorten the one you have. Or...you can purchase a stock barrel that is shorter and keep the other around if you ever change your setup.
Many stock barrels in synthetic or wood are available in any length. Most appear from time to time on the unmentionable auction site. Perhaps even a Power barrel (R) if you want to add some decibels.
Good luck.
usual disclaimer for me, and I have no connection to the maker of Power barrel except friendship.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ed
Date: 2006-03-24 23:22
Jim Bjork says
"I love Eddie Daniels' jazz work, and could listen to his clarinet sound all day."
Just for interest, you might note last I knew, Eddie used a very classical type setup, close tip, longer facing. You might find info on his site.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2006-03-25 20:54
Please bear in mind that different makes and models of mouthpiece will tune differently.
Factors that control this are:
Depth of Bore (some people call this the chamber)
Deeper - flatter
Shorter - sharper
Width of Bore
Wider - flatter
Narrower - sharper
Shape of Bore
More cylindrical - possibly flatter
More conical - possibly sharper
Shape affects tuning of 12ths
This effect on intonation is widely ignored and/or is not clearly understood by many clarinetists when discussing intonation.
ALSO - The interior shape and size of the bore within the barrel has almost as much effect as the length of the barrel on intonation.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
World class clarinet mouthpieces
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Author: Saxguy007
Date: 2006-03-29 13:18
Thanks for the advice everyone!
After some experimentation with some other individual reed specimens just a whisker stiffer (a cheap first step at a solution), I can get my new mouthpiece and existent barrel setup up to pitch with a tuner (barely), and even in tune with itself.
I may yet pick up a shorter barrel as suggested so as to have a little "wiggle room" on both sides of the length adjustments should I encounter any unusual climate conditions.
I am really enjoying the free-blowing ease of playing and latitude for expressiveness with the jazz piece! This ease may certainly not be specific to JodyJazz brand, and might be characteristic of many other open-facing/softer-reed setups. I never thought I would have the urge to play *clarinet* with my Aebersold play-a-longs.
Oh, what I've been missing all these years!
Jim Bjork
When vivisecting cats, remember: earplugs are cheaper than anaesthetics!
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