 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: blewis
Date: 2006-01-23 02:20
Hi, I'm just getting back into playing and I had my French stencil refurbished. It'll cost about 250.00. I was told it will be "ok" student instrument. I found some cheap "Heimer" and "Wernburg" brands on ebay. Does anyone know if it's possible they're anything good to buy?
The old french wood one has a Selmer mouthpeice so I guess that is worth about 75.00.
Any one heard of "Cecilio?" They're being called "beginner to intermediate" for under 100.00. It's got to be junk but I really still want to beleive in Santa. Anybody ever heard of these. I didn't see the name on the list of ones to stay away from.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-01-23 02:31
If you search this forum for ebay, using the search feature above, you will find many results on how crappy this instruments are. I would recommend either having that instrument refurbished or spending 300-500 on a new student clarinet.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: blewis
Date: 2006-01-23 03:08
Thanks ElBlufer. Your humble opinion was really appreciated!
Bipolars do it with passion
Post Edited (2006-01-23 03:09)
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Author: blewis
Date: 2006-01-23 03:12
OMG..the bipolar jest was an unwanted joke. I do not know how to edit it off the post. I hope no one was too offended. I really would delete it if I could.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-01-23 03:18
Here is the ever growing list of brands to avoid. Many of these I've have played (or rather, tried to play), some I've only inspected, others have been mentioned by various techs:
Laval
Rex
Monique
Wexler
Parrot
Bestler
BandNow
Cecilio
Simba
First Act
Harmony
Lindo
Selman
Sky
Schill
Bridgecraft
Wernburg
Jinyin
Heimer
Maxtone
Artemis
Venus
Cibaili
Grand
Blue Moon
Steuben
Top Tone
Earlham
Lark
Palatino
Elkhart Series
Johnson
There are many others which I've left out. Feel free to add more ...GBK
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2006-01-23 05:22
This list is a moving target. I can't tell you scientifically what is good and what is bad, but it is changing all the time.
For example:
I saw Simba clarinets at NAMM yesterday and talked to the rep. I told him that the Brand did not carry a good reputation with repairmen. He said that in the last two years there has been a great improvement in the Simba instruments. He said that money had been invested in design, manufacturing, quality control, and service support. He said that the company is hanging in there and intends to sell appropriate instruments. These are all the right words and intentions.
I don't know............
and of course it's good to warn inexperienced buyers that there are many, many brands out there that don't have the experience to make playable instruments. (And that shopping for the lowest price probably ensures that one will get a poor horn.) But I like to repeat whenever this subject comes up that economics and sales will drive some of these brands to improve.
Wayne Thompson
PS I don't have a real Simba price sheet , but from our conversation I'd guess the Simba List Price for their basic model, nickel keys, to be about $300. Still quite, quite inexpensive.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-01-23 15:08
Avoid:
Anything made in China. Jupiter is making usable instruments, but even that brand was terrible at the beginning.
"Indian Army" clarinets, which used to be all over the auction sites. Avoid in particular anything with red corks or thread on the tenons.
Moennig -- dreadful cheap German instruments from the 50s.
Pan American -- the lowest. The "propellor wood" instruments, with a blond, striped surface, are particularly bad.
The bottom keys of clarinets have a vertical rod, a pad cup and a horizontal strut that connects the two. The strut should extend only to the middle of the pad cup. I've found that a strut that goes all the way across the cup is a sure sign that a clarinet's keys are made of pot-metal, which breaks easily and can't be repaired. (It's the opposite, though, for oboes.)
Ken Shaw
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Author: blewis
Date: 2006-01-24 04:35
Thank you very much. I feel alot better about getting the french stencil redone.
Brenda Lewis
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-02-23 19:17
Brenda - You don't say specifically which "stencil" you have, and "refurbishing" can cover a lot of territory--from a total restoration to just replacing a couple of leaking pads (and putting a shine on it to make it look like a lot's been done to it). Still, $250 to get a fairly decent wooden instrument back into action isn't a bad price, and you're not likely to go out and find anything better on the market for that price (most of the higher-end student instruments for sale on Ebay are likely to need some amount of "refurbishing").
I personally think that you made a good move, and when you get to the point that you feel like you are ready to upgrade, you'll still have a pretty good instrument as a backup.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-23 20:25
"The bottom keys of clarinets have a vertical rod, a pad cup and a horizontal strut that connects the two. The strut should extend only to the middle of the pad cup. I've found that a strut that goes all the way across the cup is a sure sign that a clarinet's keys are made of pot-metal, which breaks easily and can't be repaired. (It's the opposite, though, for oboes.)"
The early B&H Regent and "77" clarinets had mazak keys which look very similar to the better B&H keywork - the key arm terminated at the point on the pad cup. Only on the underside of these keys there's a part number in relief as opposed to being stamped into the metal.
The early Howarth clarinets from the late '40s (but not the current S2/S3 models or any from 1993 onwards) had the cup arm that went all the way across the pad cup as it does on their oboes, but these were definitely made of nickel silver, and the clarinets were probably very similar to the earlier Louis 'Chas Draper' model in body, bore and keywork design, but with the exception of the pad cups and cup arms.
[ Chris P. is an employee of Howarth's and did not disclose such until much later. My apologies for missing this and letting Chris P. misuse this BBoard. Mark Charette ]
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-02-24 23:17
I think it'd be easier to maintain a list of reputable brands...
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-02-25 00:28
"Where do u find the clarinet list of the keep away from?"
All the ones advertised on eBay claiming everything they're not.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-02-25 07:05
myrnabs wrote:
> Where do u find the clarinet list of the keep away from?
Didn't you read this entire thread before posting? ...GBK
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Author: tocha
Date: 2008-02-07 18:44
I have not read the entire thread but I should like to add:-
Stagg
Sonata (As distributed by Normans)
and anything by Trevor James.
As far as student models are concerned there is no point in looking at anything other than Buffet B12, Yamaha 250 and Jupiter. The build quality of the Yamaha is better but the Buffet produces a better tone. The Jupiter is a copy of the Yamaha, more or less, but can be acquired a lower price.
tony chambers woodwind repeirs,
http://tcwr.freesuperhost.com
01376 515960
tonywoodwind@hotmail.com
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-02-07 21:57
is there a way you can put an html box that says click here for a list of brands to avoid?
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-02-07 23:11
> As far as student models are concerned there is no point in looking at
> anything other than Buffet B12, Yamaha 250 and Jupiter.
That considerably narrows your depth of field...
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-02-08 05:54
Re some of the companies mentioned above - I haven't tried Trevor James clarinets, but a few of their saxophones that I've tried were ok and build quality, although not as good as some saxophones, was much better than the many nasty instruments like the CSOs. The student I heard who was playing one sounded very good.
Recently I played and repaired one of the clarinets in the list, and although it didn't have a great sound and had a few problems, it didn't have that bad intonation and not many problems to repair. It could be a reasonable beginner instrument. The same is pretty much true for a saxophone from one of the companies in that list.
Ken Shaw wrote:
"Avoid:
Anything made in China."
I totally disagree with that! Maybe in the past it was true, but not anymore. Not too long ago anything made Japan was considered bad, and look how it is today.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-02-08 06:25
-- "As far as student models are concerned there is no point in looking at anything other than Buffet B12, Yamaha 250 and Jupiter." --
Tony,
I can't believe you're in the UK yet haven't tried a Hanson. They are excellent clarinets and the student model is -in my opinion - better than the B12, certainly in terms of price - quality. I have quite a collection of clarinets and although my old R13 has a better tone, I find the keywork on the Hanson the most comfortable of all.
Hanson also offer a choice of MPs with their student model. When I bought mine - 6 years ago - I could choose between R45 or 5RV. The clarinet is extremely well made and I've never had any problems with it - though the hard rubber is now faded through years of being taken on holidays, left in the sun etc.
Their customer service is excellent and they were always very friendly and helpful.
http://www.hansonclarinets.com/Hanson_clarinets/Home.html
Steve - absolutely no connection with Hanson whatsoever.
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2008-02-08 07:46
older leblanc esprit or noblet clarinets are very good for a price of 50 to 100 dollars
gr
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Author: Pete
Date: 2008-02-09 19:22
"Anything made in China."
Since Yamaha closed it's American plants and is now doing all of it's production in China, does that mean no one should play Yamaha Band Instruments any more?
Pete
Emerson Musical Instrument Repair
North East Wisconsin Band Instrument Co.
ToneLure Tone Enhancement
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Author: bethany1022
Date: 2011-09-24 23:42
I do apologize that I disaggree that the Jupiture(sp). I owned a Sax made by that company and then went and bought a selmer USA. A lot better tone quality for playing seriously than a jupiture(sp). I loved the King 613 , selmer USA and Selmer Paris, never really liked VItio and Bundy. I played for 7 years clairinet, alto clairinet, flute, all the saxes.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-09-25 03:36
There are certainly some decent student-level instruments coming out of China now. I did some work on a newish Lark clarinet for a friend and found it to be pretty well indistinguishable from a Yamaha YCL 23. It could almost have been its twin. It played well and the build quality was as good. I'd be reluctant to spend money on anything Chinese older than about 5 years ago, they weren't so good then.
i think you made the right choice getting your French stencil refurbished, as long as it's half-decent to start with.
Tony F.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-09-25 22:41
"Pan American -- the lowest. The "propellor wood" instruments, with a blond, striped surface, are particularly bad."
For the record, some Pan American clarinets are decent. I have a 58N in hard rubber that's particularly nice for jazz and big band.
The propeller wood Pan American clarinets and oboes, however, are at best considered historical oddities. I, for one, have no use for a clarinet made of a material that tends to disintegrate over time.
In this day and age, however, decent unrestored wooden clarinets from Noblet, Normandy, and Selmer Signet are plentiful and available for well under US$100. Why mess around with the questionable makers when these instruments are so readily available?
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Author: salsacookies
Date: 2011-09-26 06:25
I have a Pan American and I have to say it's not a bad clarinet for what it is. The scale is pretty even and the 12ths are almost dead on. Maybe I just got lucky with that one.
My setup
Leblanc Legacy Bb with grenadilla barrel and bell, B45 w/Optimum lig.
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