 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-01-25 19:04
Any one aware that Steve Fox is making clarinets based on the Bohlen-Pierce scale?
http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/BP_sale.htm
Soprano size already available, with tenor and contrabass sizes in the testing stage.
Comments?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-01-25 21:04
I'm still waiting for someone to build one based on the Equally-Tempered scale.
What the ^&%*$()^)% is the Bohlen-Pierce scale, for us ignorami?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-01-25 21:38
Now isn't that interesting, there really is something new "under the sun". I wonder if there are any patents on this, some where on earth ? Help, please ! On a quick read, I didn't find any discussion of harmony considerations. Will it sound like far-eastern music? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-01-25 21:59
Wouldn't a slide whistle with a clarinet mpc be a cheaper (and even more flexible) alternative?
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-25 22:03
I already know of many clarinet players that play a 13-step high register - that's upper register C5 to high C#6 - although they do go flat up top so the top C# sounds a C. Voila! An octave divided into 13 steps, though the ratios aren't equal as they start getting flatter from G5 upwards.
(Sound of slapped wrists can be heard)
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2006-01-25 22:11
Hey Dave! New Sounds? Now you and friend Donkey can really do "On The Trail."
Bob A
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2006-01-25 22:45
Snowy, I once let my 2 year old go near the piano, pretty much had the same sound........
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-01-26 07:26
Gnarly.
http://www.kees.cc/music/scale13/scale13.html
[Actually, this line is telling:
"I discovered this scale in the seventies..."
:-D
(no disrepect, I was there too)]
Actually, this does sound really fascinating. Presumably there's a whole family of these scales dividing higher harmonics. I really want one of those crazy clarinets now - especially as the cl. naturally overblows a 12th.
Post Edited (2006-01-26 07:42)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-03-08 21:36
Fox has had Bohlen-Pierce clarinets on his website for several years I believe...
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-03-08 22:17
Is it just coincidence that the woman's name is Advocat, and she's advocating new music? That was a Fox B-P clarinet in action as well.
Some of it appears "pitchy" but that's just the scale of the instrument (I think)...is there any reason to believe that this system will be any more successful in its own way than serialism was?
James
PS: not insinuating that serialism wasn't successful. It was an alternative to tonality, and the B-P system is different enough to be in the same category.
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2010-03-08 23:25
Amy is a good friend of mine here at McGill, although she's living in the states now. She brought the clarinet up here a few months ago and let me play it. A very interesting experience. Once you get used to the scale being "not right" it's very pleasing to play.
Fox has done a great job constructing these instruments and the sound is very good!
(Someone above noted that it sounded "pitchy". That is indeed the instrument. If it didn't 'offend' your ears, then I'd be worried!)
Post Edited (2010-03-08 23:29)
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2010-03-08 23:45
I was hoping someone would point out the arrival of the Bohlen-Pierce clarinet.
>Is it just coincidence that the woman's name is Advocat, and she's advocating >new music?
Amy Advocat is one of my doctoral students at McGill and, yes, she is a good advocate for new music.
For those in the Montreal area, her doctoral lecture-recital is on May 9th at 8 pm at McGill. The lecture will be on the Bohlen-Pierce scale and instrument and she will play a recital of Bohlen-Pierce pieces.
>I wonder how it looks written...
Notation corresponds to traditional clarinet fingerings. If you see a G you finger a G bit a "real" G is not what comes out. They played around with different fingering systems and wisely came to the conclusion that any other fingering system would be too complicated for the performer and would add an unnecessary extra layer to playing the new instrument.
>Fox has had Bohlen-Pierce clarinets on his website for several years I believe...
Yes but he was not making them for the general public. He made two prototypes for a premiere performance and Amy's was recently completed. I believe hers is something like the third one made.
>Who wants to invest $1500 to get one and tell us how it plays?
It plays very well.
Obviously the clarinet is a logical choice to be a Bohlen-Pierce instrument.
The Bohlen-Pierce scale's "octave" is a 12th and since the clarinet overblows at the twelfth, it becomes a matter of figuring out where to drill the holes on this new instrument to make the new clarinet's notes correspond with those of the Bohlen-Pierce scale.
----------------------------------------------------
Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Artistic Director - Jeffery Summer Concerts
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
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Author: Wes
Date: 2010-03-09 01:54
Harry Partch developed a 43 note scale and a large number of special instruments to play within it, many of them played by mallets. There were no clarinets in his music but perhaps the BP clarinet could have fitted in. The music scores did not require that one played the 43 notes in the scales consecutively. It surely has been described on the internet. Notes were ratios and the sounds were very harmonious.
After Partch died, the instrument collection was used in San Diego at the university and also perhaps at Buffalo, NY. I rehearsed with the group in the 1960s with a mallet instrument referred to as the "Blue Rainbow". The carefully written scores had ratios lettered above notes, as I recall. Concert pieces and operas were written and performed.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2010-03-09 03:27
Hey Simon,
Any chance you could email me? If you have time in the next month, I'd like to get a lesson! nathan.beaty@gmail.com
The BP clarinet is really cool by the way, made me rethink hard rubber clarinets a little bit!
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Author: MsMullerful
Date: 2010-11-07 12:00
Hello everybody,
it is good to read about the Bohlen-Pierce clarinet in this forum. My name is Nora-Louise Müller, and I am a clarinetist in North Germany, one of two to premiere the Bohlen-Pierce clarinet in Europe. The two instruments we and my colleague Anna Bardeli (due to her moving abroad, Àkos Hoffmann is now my duo poartner) got from Stephen Fox on instigation of Prof. Georg Hajdu (Hamburg) were the first two Bohlen-Pierce clarinets. Stephen made two more for his group tranSpectra in Ontario, Canada. Amy's clarinet actually was the sixth one - the fifth one is owned by a mathematician hobby clarinetist in the USA who is not performing in public.
Stephen's latest creation is the Bohlen-Pierce tenor clarinet, a low-sounding BP clarinet. This by now one-of-a-kind instrument is in my possession, opening the possibilities for us working as a trio here in Germany in the near future.
Currently I am working a lot in the field of BP clarinet multiphonics. The soprano clarinet provides beautiful ones, yet few. When I was giving a lecture at the Conservatory in Montreal last month, Jean-Francois Normand gave me the wonderful idea of adding one or two "useless" keys to the clarinet just to enhance its multiphonic repertoire. Since that day I am in contact with Stephen Fox who is designing a new instrument for me whcih provides the keys that traditionally are known as e'flat and g'# sharp.
I might come back to Montreal in spring 2011. If anyone is interested in the Bohlen-Pierce clarinet I am happy to help, neither in Germany (or wherelse in Europe I might be, please feel free to contact me) or maybe in Canada.
By the way, the next Bohlen-Pierce conference is being planned for 2012 and will take place in Toronto.
You can find more informatin about the Bohlen-Pierce clarinet on my website, http://www.noralouisemuller.de .
All the best,
Nora
Nora-Louise Muller
www.noralouisemuller.de
Post Edited (2010-11-15 10:11)
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Author: William
Date: 2010-11-07 15:54
Haven't jazz musicians been playing with quarter-tone scales & tonalities for years by ear. I don't find the sound of this clarinet to be that weird. Actually, it's kind of refreashing. If the curtain wasn't coming down so fast on my own clarinet playing, I would seriously consider learning to play one of these instruments. I like it and would like to hear more posted on this forum when it becomes available.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2010-11-07 16:13
You can "invent" your own scale.
First pick any number bigger than 1,say,X. (e.g.X=1.8)
Then pick another number(integer,this time) N (e.g.N=7)
Now you invented a new scale consisted of N equal tempered scale with "octave" is defined by X.
Relative frequency of each note is
F=X^(i/N) , i=0,1,...,N
Real question is ,is it pleasing to hear them?
If not,I would say it's not musical.
I'm happy that B-P scale is not popular.
Post Edited (2010-11-07 16:16)
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Author: rsholmes
Date: 2010-11-07 22:42
No, although there might be some coincidental connection with the Fibonacci sequence.
I attempted to make a "diatonic" BP clarinet out of PVC pipe a few years back. There are few enough notes in a "tritave" (perfect twelfth) in a "diatonic" BP scale that you need no keys, just finger holes. I botched the tuning, though, and never did get around to a second attempt.
Are there pictures of Fox's BP tenor clarinet online?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-11-08 00:02
I believe there is a pic on Nora-Louise's site of the tenor.
I was going to joke that I have heard some students on ultra cheap clarinets that seem to have this scale! ;-)
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2010-11-08 03:38
One can find an explanation of the Bohlen-Pierce scale, photos of the soprano Bohlen-Pierce clarinet, audio excerpts of pieces using the Bohlen-Pierce scale and descriptions of the tunings of soprano, tenor and contra Bohlen-Pierce clarinets at:
http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/bpclar.html
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Author: Beppe
Date: 2010-11-08 10:15
Here audio recording
http://www.transpectra.org/audio.html
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Author: MsMullerful
Date: 2010-11-08 16:08
Hi Wes,
You are right: Harry Partch's 43-tone scale would be quite suitable for BP. To be exact, the BP scale requires a 41-tone scale. In fact the BP scale is near Harry Partch's Just Intonation system due to the simple number frequency ratios 3:5:7:9 which the scale provides.
Cheers,
Nora
Nora-Louise Muller
www.noralouisemuller.de
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