 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2006-01-05 01:14
For the whole past week I've been practicing on a soft reed. But the next week I decided to save the reed and try slightly harder reeds.
And now when I play on the harder reeds that I described, I start leaking air a lot and my sound is horrible. Is it because my embouchure got in the habit of playing soft reeds?
BTW, I play on Vandoren V12 3s and my sound is beautiful on soft reeds but on the slightly harder reeds it's stuffy, I leak air and it's horrible.
What do you suggest? Thank you!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-05 05:13
What do you consider to be a soft reed? If a 3 works well, then stick to it - no reason to use harder reeds if they sound stuffy, or if the person next to you uses harder reeds - it's not a competition to see who can use the hardest reed, and don't feel inadequate if you're 'only' using a 3.
If the reed is too hard for you, you will notice the low register will be stuffy and staccato will be difficult and slow to react. It's better to play on the softest reed you feel comfortable with and one that works across the entire range and speaks with ease.
I use a Rue Lepic 3.5 as my new mouthpiece has a long facing and close tip opening (M15) and they work nicely with this facing (I never thought I'd be using a reed this strength in a million years) - but on my 5RV Lyre and Selmer 120 I only used a V12 2.5 and this works well for me - if I put a 3 on I couldn't get a note out if it.
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2006-01-05 06:08
I consider a soft reed that is the same strength (in my case) but worn out a bit so it's easier to play on.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-05 06:42
My philosophy is make things as easy for yourself as you can - there's no point in struggling.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-01-05 11:39
I'm with RodRubber - if you need to play soft reeds this week, play soft reeds this week. It's about the music, right?
Advancement isn't always in the direction of harder reeds.
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Author: charlie_star_uk
Date: 2006-01-05 20:37
how long did you try the harder reed for? it could only take a few minutes for the embouchure to adjust? try and get the sound in your head and make the embouchure adjust... then you can play on all reeds!!
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2006-01-05 21:13
The hardness of the reed needed depends to a great part on the mouthpiece--in particular, the openness of the mouthpiece. A more open (at the tip) mouthpiece will work best with a softer reed and a more closed mouthpiece will work best with a harder reed.
Bottom line, as said by others, is to use whatever works best.
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2006-01-06 18:51
Omar,
After spending a couple of months revisiting my old epuipment: barrels, mouthpieces, and reed combinations, I returned to my old setup with a much stronger, more controlled embouchure. The months of trying harder reeds, different reed brands, different mouthpieces helped to strengthen my embouchure. I could do things with tone that I couldn't before.
Ron Jr.
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Author: Meri
Date: 2006-01-06 20:52
Hi, Omar!
I classify anything softer than a 3 a soft reed--think of all those clarinetists who are still playing 2- 2 1/2 Ricos after 3-5 years of playing. A 3 Vandoren is a medium strength reed. The right strength of reed is the hardest reed you can play comfortably that gives you a good sound.
Meri
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Author: nickma
Date: 2006-01-06 21:31
I go for the philisophy why make life hard for yourself. I prefer 'softer' reeds than those recommended for the mouthpieces, so use 3 or 3 1/4 when 3.5-4 are recommended. AS long as there's enough pressure to be able to control the sound you want to produce in every given circumstance, that;s all that matters, surely.
Nick
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2006-01-06 21:57
Thank you for all your suggestions. I think a reason why it was hard getting a sound was also because some reeds weren't broken in yet. But, when you first play on a reed out of the box, is it normal for it to be stuffy and for you to be taking a breath more often?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-01-07 03:35
Reeds can vary in strength in a box, so not all 3s will play as 3s. But the best thing is to try every reed to see which ones are instantly playable and which ones are tough, and seperate them.
Try each reed just held to the mouthpiece by your right thumb and play a few notes with your left hand - this way it's quicker to test all the reeds without having to keep taking the ligature on and off, and when you find a load of reeds you like, keep them aside and then try them properly fitted and across the range of the clarinet to see how well they sound and respond.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-01-07 04:15)
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-01-07 04:13
It's a pity, really, that we have only the system of classification that talks about reeds as 'soft' and 'hard'. Although this system captures something of what is true about the reeds it describes, it can be misleading for a fairly obvious reason, when you think about it.
The words 'soft' and 'hard', applied to a reed, just mean that the reed is more, or less, easy to bend. That's how the manufacturers sort them into what they call 'strengths'.
What we're interested in as players, though, is something that is related to strength, but not the same. And that something is how the reed vibrates, and therefore how it co-operates with the vibrations of the clarinet air-column to create the sound of the instrument.
Vibration is a much more complicated thing than strength or bendiness -- as, for example, bridge builders need to know. And, that a violin bow not only drives the vibrations of the string and the violin, but actually vibrates itself, is an important part of the reason why making an excellent bow from synthetic materials is a non-trivial problem.
Now, some reeds, when you play them, don't vibrate easily. They give you the impression that they didn't want to be reeds:-) ("Why couldn't I just be a piece of cane? Why to I have to wiggle about so fast?" you can almost hear them say.) And this applies to both soft and hard reeds, though reluctant soft reeds and reluctant hard reeds complain in different ways.
My own experience is that, on a given mouthpiece, I can play on a small range of reed strengths -- the sort of spread that you get in a box of nominally equal strengths -- provided the reeds are what we might want to call, 'co-operative' (the opposite of what I described above as 'reluctant'). They seem to want to vibrate. And when I say 'I can play on them', I mean, roughly speaking, that I can produce not only a 'good' sound, but a sufficient variety of sounds for the needs of the music I'm playing.
(Of course, it's an unfortunate fact that in a box of reeds, the proportion that is co-operative in this way is significantly less than 1. You can read here, and elsewhere, lots of often contradictory material about how you can attempt to raise this number.)
I've had to develop the ability to play on these different strengths of reed over the years by allowing my embouchure to adjust itself both to each reed and to the demands of the music. Fortunately, though hard and soft reeds 'complain' very differently, they 'co-operate' only slightly differently, so it's not to hard to adjust from the one to the other -- though you do have to be prepared to feel strange for a bit, switching. Perhaps that's what Omar was noticing.
So, how might all this be useful? Well, as always, it might be news to some people and just obvious to others.
I think experimenting with the idea that we need to be 'flexible' rather than 'correct' is important. And I find it helpful myself to think of a good reed as being both 'willing to vibrate' and 'controllable' -- so I'm not looking for a piece of wood that will do all the work of making a good sound, because I've tried to develop a subtle variety of embouchure to help me out -- AND I'm prepared to play on reeds of slightly varying strengths.
Tony
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-01-07 12:07
Thank you Tony, your posts are always thought provoking. My personal wish is that players would use the term stiffness rather than strength and hardness since that is the appropriate engineering term. It is no wonder that we have so little understanding of reed mechanics during playing since no one can look inside the mouth to make observations. So often young players are encouraged to play stiffer reeds when they don't have the proper mouthpiece......or even a good one.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Fred
Date: 2006-01-07 14:35
I tend to get frustrated when I hear folks talking about reed strength with nary a mention of the mouthpiece it is being strapped to. I would struggle to play a #3 reed on some of my more open mouthpieces . . . they would be too hard. On some of my other mouthpieces, they would be too soft.
Bottom Line: It isn't just the reed . . . it's matching the reed to the design of the mouthpiece.
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Author: connie
Date: 2006-01-07 17:31
OK, but I haven't seen anyone address the issue I'm having with softer reeds; namely that my upper register is significantly flat, and I get more tired trying to stay in tune. I've been playing softer reeds because I can play louder with less effort, which has been necessary in order to be heard in the group I'm with. (Microphone is not a possibility.) So now I'm trying to get used to slightly harder reeds, and I also find that I'm leaking air and having to breathe twice as often, after working for a couple of weeks. I think it'll take more time, but if I'm totally on the wrong track, will someone please let me know?
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-01-07 17:47
I stopped worrying about using softer reeds when I played next to a fantastic pro from Wales who used 2 1/2s. When I questioned her about it she was a bit embarassed and said, "I usually don't let people know about my use of soft reeds because they tease me about it." Anyway, she told me she'd used soft reeds for years because they gave her a better sound and so she stuck with them. I tried softer after I got back home and decided there was no reason to use a hard reed just because my image of advanced players included hard reeds. Whatever works for you is what is important.
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2006-01-07 18:40
I'm using a Vandoren B45 13. The Vandoren V12 3 was one of the reccomended strength. I have a very nice B45, not like others. I think I'll try experimenting with 2.5. Last box, I had of V12 3s was VERY CONSISTANT every one played beautifully out of the box! But this one, a lot of them are too hard for me. I would try the method of not playing your reeds out of the box and waiting a year or so (is that correct?) to improve response. Unfortunately for me, reeds are expensive and I don't have the money.
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Author: D
Date: 2006-01-07 20:26
I buy them when they are on sale, all different sorts, and try them/keep them for a while. Keep an eye on web sites, they are always having special offers.
Cheaper than violin strings anyway.......
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Author: charlie_star_uk
Date: 2006-01-07 20:31
if the whole box is too hard and you don't want to waste it you could try and soften them a bit....
when you have put the reed on and it is too hard then try rubbing with your thumb down the sides of the reed. then play for a couple of mins. if this doesn't work then use some light sandpaper (wet and dry paper) and rub the back of the reed a bit using a flat surface to rest the paper on... or rub the front of the reed where you rubbed with your thumb. just don't rub the middle.
do it a little at a time. makes massive changes.
charlie
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2006-01-07 21:46
Charlie, I understand the sand paper method because I've done it before but stopped because I kept getting carried away and messing them up lol though, this time I'll focus more.
But my question is how does rubbing the reed with your "thumb" reduce it's stiffness?
Thanks for the sand paper tip, I forgot all about that. Oh and last time I sanded my reeds down I made a big mistake of sanding the reed down before I gave it a chance to break in; later when it WAS broken in I regretted it.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2006-01-08 06:30
Try some silicon carbide abrasive paper. Silicon carbide is almost as hard as diamond and the paper, maybe #350, is inexpensive. It also doesn't discolor the reeds. I find that the V12 #3 reeds are great but need a slight sanding to remove the raised grain due to the initial wetting and drying. After a few cycles of wetting, drying, and a little sanding, the reeds are fantastic. Some require a little bit more sanding than others but they all need smoothing. Good luck!
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-01-09 01:09
Another suggestion might be that you go to Tom Ridenour's website and read his material on balancing reeds. An unbalanced reed may exhibit the symptom of feeling too stiff.
Best regards,
jnk
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