 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-12-09 04:07
Such start of a question or statement as the title can catch clarinet-playing people's eyes.
How often do western big-name pro clarinests endorse (or advertise!) clarinet related items: i.e. ranging from clarinets to other accessories, like Claripatch ?
And is that a 'bad' thing? At least morally? Maybe because it'll influence novices? And will quoting somebody(=pro) say something positively/negatively about a product be frowned upon?
edit: 'endorse'--that's the word I was looking for. thank you.
Lucy Lee Jang
Post Edited (2005-12-09 09:26)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-12-09 08:24
Endorsements and advertisements are as old as brand names. Just because X uses equipment Y and not Z doesn't say anything about Z. I guess a good player can get a decent sound with a far east clunker while we humble hobbyists wrestle with every reed. I usually don't listen to such statements (except, of course, when someone has the same gear as I do )
Endorsements are a double-edged sword. "Thanks XY my tone is now full and rich" can also mean "without it my tone sucked" or "I'm only so good because I use XY, else I'd be a very mediocre player". So be cautious...
--
Ben
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-12-09 09:08
Players who endorse products are not necessarily paid. Doug Yeo, who is a big name trombonist, plays and endorses Yamaha, and advises them on design. But he is not paid to do so. Well, so he says, and while I find this surprising I am not going to call him a liar.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2005-12-09 11:48
Funny this should come up today, was being told a story last night of a big name clarinettist who was being backed by Yamaha...
At the first recital, he played his beautiful Yamaha. Or should I say, Buffet with Yamaha bell...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-12-09 11:53
Not to mention the Vandoren "artists" who are using Gonzalez reeds ...GBK
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-12-09 12:01
I have fairly strong feelings on endorsements. I really believe that if someone is going to receive any benefit from a company, whether it be instruments or financial compensation, they should actually play the instruments in performance.
I'm an endorser for Jupiter, and play their saxes and flutes exclusively. The only exception is when I need an instrument they don't make, like bass sax or sopranino.
I don't endorse their clarinets, because to me, they haven't managed to surpass the playability of my Selmer, but I'm upfront about that.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-12-09 12:27
Hi,
I don't think there has ever been a time in all my playing career that I have used or even tried something (instruments and otherwise) because of the endorsement. I know I am a "late adopter" as far as purchasing goes and will try equipment that is NOS and maybe 5 to 10 years old because I look for value first.
If you think music is bad, consider how many golfers buy clubs and balls so they too can drive like Tiger Woods. For endorsements, I usually ask fellow players what they like and why; I figure if someone of like ability gets some great results from a product, there is a chance that I might benefit.
HRL
PS I always buy refurbrished Dell computers, I love Yamaha products and have three receivers and a YTS 475, play La Voz reeds on sax and clarinet (no one does that), use MPs that are older than most of the posters on this BB and they are not Kasper, play on instruments of the same age group, and finally got rid of my car after 15 years (OK, it was a Lexus).
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-12-09 13:21
HRL wrote: "If you think music is bad, consider how many golfers buy clubs and balls so they too can drive like Tiger Woods."
At least Tiger when endorses golf equipment, he is endorsing something he has expert knowledge about. Provided he actually uses the equipment in question, that is evidence that it isn't complete junk. What I find really cringe-making is when famous people endorse completely unrelated products. Who cares if a soccer player wears a certain watch, or a film star really lerves to put their money in a certain bank?
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-09 13:26
I've used the Vandoren Optimum Ligature for 6 years now and still haven't gotten a single check!!
Maybe I should seek a higher bidder? ...........
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-12-09 13:48
"I've used the Vandoren Optimum Ligature for 6 years now and still haven't gotten a single check!!"
I've used the same Vandoren reed for 6 years now and still haven't gotten a single check!!
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2005-12-09 14:51
Buffet may pay me...to endorse some other clarinet ! Seriously, for a full time musician to make a living, they've got to do whatever they can...endorse away !
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-12-09 15:02
There is also a flip side to the endorsement issue - some famous, infamous or pretty good players hearts, minds, and souls are owned by the endorsement company and they exert substantial pressure in some cases for their paid endorsers not to give favorable comments on products that compete with the endorser's company. There are always exceptions where some players have enough self esteem and independence to give endorsements or favorable comments to other products which may potentially compete with the "master's company". Endorsements also often come with a substantial price and sometimes without the need for product testing by the endorser. This is first hand experience where the "master" told an individual to pull their endorsement of one of my products because it was in competition with theirs. This is business of course and each individual must make up their own mind how much of their soul they wish to sell to the highest bidder and how much independence they wish to hold as their own.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-12-09 15:04
I had a clarinet prof once who was asked by the Buffet people to endorse their clairinets--only hitch was he had to promise never to play his Leblancs. He had a wonderful matched pair of Opus clarinets that he loved--so he turned them down. However, I noticed that he is on their list of Buffet players now, so I guess the offer for free instruments overcame his love of his Opuses (or is it Opi)?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-12-09 15:05
Endorsements are a fact of life and are only meaningful to the naieve and to the endorser who gets a fee.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2005-12-09 15:13
The whole issue of endorsements revolves around influencing buyers; otherwise there is no reason to do it. As to morality, I don't know. On one hand I'd like to think that a professional person has enough integrity to only endorse products they actually use but the reality is that the dollar speaks louder. This is particularly true in the sports industry where nothing surprises me.
The promotional techniques used by many of the companies are pretty creative. I know of at least one that pays educators when they mention their products in seminars and master classes. One endorsement deal I saw specified only that a person couldn’t be photographed with a competing brand or be quoted that they used another brand, other than that no restrictions on what they used. Free instruments, travel allowances, sponsored clinics are just some of the bennies that get offered. But compared to sports, it’s chicken feed. I’d bet that Nike’s promotional budget exceeds the gross revenues of the top four instrument manufacturers.
For a number of years I was a US Track and Field and NCAA Official and at the bigger televised meets a particular sports clothing company (swoosh) would provide uniforms for officials. I have really wide feet and I have never found a pair of shoes that this company makes that will fit me so at one meet a factory rep saw me walking around in another brand of shoes and threw a fit because I was going to be the head official in an event that was expected to get a lot of TV time. After proving to this guy that I couldn’t get my feet into the provided shoes, they used a tape logo to cover the logo on my shoes. The fact that they had these stick on logos proved they had run into this before but it was obvious on TV when you saw it and one of the commentators even commented on it.
So, endorsements, I’d say take them with a grain of salt.
Best
Rick
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2005-12-09 15:23
So...
at the end of this thread....can someone please tell me what Sabine Meyer plays? Or in this case...get an endorsement from? Thanks!
Curious me...
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-12-09 16:06
> (or is it Opi)?
since you asked - in English it should be "Opuses" (and never ever "Opii"), while in Latin the proper plural is "Opera".
(BTW the plural of "octopus" is "octopodes"...)
--
Ben
Post Edited (2005-12-09 16:08)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-12-09 16:12
I used to build custom racing bikes. I had several riders come to me with their sponsor's checks (other bike makers) and have me build their bike --to be decaled in their sponsor's livery.
I hated that --particularly on the occasion when I GAVE a frameset to a promising young rider (who represented the US in two Olympic games) and had him show up at the velodrome the following week with a competitor's decals on the bike.
Hey, the other guy's paying my hotel bills.
Bob Phillips
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2005-12-09 16:26
i attended a NAMM seminar on this subject. according to the speakers, endorsers rarely get free gear. it usually occurs the other way around. the player already owns the gear, gets noticed and is approached with an endorsement deal. wanting to get endorsed just to get free gear will, in most cases, never happen.
~~JK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-09 17:05
----------------------------
i attended a NAMM seminar on this subject. according to the speakers, endorsers rarely get free gear. it usually occurs the other way around. the player already owns the gear, gets noticed and is approached with an endorsement deal. wanting to get endorsed just to get free gear will, in most cases, never happen.
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I don't believe that for a second. There are plenty of artists that I work with that get free instruments, gear, etc from endorsing companies.
Myself, I've gotten free reeds for the past 8 years.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-12-09 18:32
Someone wanted to know:
Wurlitzers supposedly
German system
Dont know the mpc. Maybe Viotto???
Maybe Julian could tell us.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2005-12-09 19:12)
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-12-09 20:17
I would endorse a product I believed in, but I think it's dumb to support a product that you don't believe in.
Why can't someone support more than 1 company, but on different stances? Like Buffet has a more lively and flexible tone (just has more life or something then most Leblancs. It's hard to describe, but I'd need to be able to describe it if I were to endorse it), but Leblanc has better intonation. I believe both of those and I wouldn't be afriad to tell the public. Also, I think Gonzalez has the best quality cane around, but FOR ME, I like the cut of Vandorens better. I know many people who love the cut of Gonzalez, but I do admit that they have awesome cane.
Does any of that make sense?
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2005-12-09 20:35
Here's why.
Endorsements communicate by association. RS or SM uses & likes B or L or Y or V is all you'll be able to remember. This is why category exclusivity is vital for promotions in pretty much any industry.
You may not think that it influences your buying decision, but it will get some people to consider another brand in their decision-making process and that will have a real impact on the bottom line. Granted, most of them don't frequent this board, but most clarinettists don't.
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Author: SolidRockMan
Date: 2005-12-09 22:38
David Peacham said:-
"At least Tiger when endorses golf equipment, he is endorsing something he has expert knowledge about. Provided he actually uses the equipment in question, that is evidence that it isn't complete junk."
In fact there's no way that Tiger Woods is playing with the same Nike driver that is on general sale. His one is gradually refined by a dedicated technical team until it precisely matches his requirements. He may be endorsing the brand, the exclusive service he receives, or the money they pay him - but he cannot endorse the run-of-the-mill product that you or I might buy because he just wouldn't use it.
Is is the same with musical instruments? Don't know...but I wouldn't let a big name endorsement sway me too much.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-12-10 03:02
i spoke to Sabine Meyer in 2002 and asked her what type of ligature she used..... i didn't get the impression it was something that she was that excited about as conversation topics go, but she told me her ligature (metal, screws above) had been inherited from her father and she didn't know its origin other than that.....
mouthpiece?
donald
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2005-12-11 01:56
Also - with custom tweaked things like Golf Clubs & Clarinets, the communication between the user and the technician is key - the best race drivers are the people that can communicate most clearly with their crew so that they consistently have the best car.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-12-24 03:07
A true endorsement is one which a friend tells another friend about how wonderful a product is, not because they are getting paid for it, but because they really believe in the product.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-12-24 03:19
There are also those who tout certain products, while not getting paid to do so, often get "professional consideration".
Much more difficult to prove, but it happens...GBK
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Author: terry
Date: 2005-12-24 12:46
Phat Cat wrote:
> Does anyone think that Tiger Woods actually drives a Buick?
>
Of course not silly!
He drives a full garage of Buicks!
1929 matched A and Bb Herman Todt Clarinets, Chadash Mouthpiece, Fogietta reeds, http://sterkel.org/clarinet
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Author: terry
Date: 2005-12-24 12:58
"i spoke to Sabine Meyer in 2002 and asked her what type of ligature she used..... i didn't get the impression it was something that she was that excited about as conversation topics go, but she told me her ligature (metal, screws above) had been inherited from her father and she didn't know its origin other than that.....
mouthpiece?
donald"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
At last, something I know something about.
At her Carnegie Hall concert 2? years ago, a sympathetic stage manager let this 50+ year old fan to see her back stage, slipping me in front of the Juliard and other students. She signed all my albums, and I took a quick look at her gear.
Clarinet Wurlitzer,
MB Wurlitzer, but she sometimes plays others, not an issue with her
Reed, Foglietta E* (more on this at http://sterkel.org/clarinet)
Ligature, generic metal with the screws on the top. (like mine!)
Swab, generic (unlabeled) microfiber (like mine!)
stand, that cheap plastic folding one the fits inside the bell in the case (like mine!)
To be honest, she does not seem to be a gear head, so I suspect that these are what she is comfortable with at that time, (now, who knows?).
and subject to change but not through the obsessive gear trials that people like I go through.
Her artistry speaks for itself. That Carnegie Hall concert was the best of my lifetime. And I have been to most of the clarinet recitals and concerts in the larger NYC Metro area, all the way to Philly.
happy blowing!
1929 matched A and Bb Herman Todt Clarinets, Chadash Mouthpiece, Fogietta reeds, http://sterkel.org/clarinet
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-24 13:37
Does she play Oehler system or Reform Boehms? Reason why I'm asking is this sentence (from her site http://www.sabine-meyer.com/ ):
"The aim of this programme is to combine the rich, powerful sound quality of the German clarinet with the flexible tonality of the French Boehm System."
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-12-24 13:53
No, she plays German system. I think what they are trying to say is that her playing style is less "stiff" than the old school German players.
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