 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Celeborn
Date: 2005-10-22 16:49
All County Music, a reputable family run music store and repair shop, refused to work on my Forte (A very nice student model clarinet designed by Omar L. Henderson) on the grounds that it was poorly made in some country with cheap labor. (I know it to be made in the Czech Republic.) The repairman cited the low quality of the metal, although he admitted that the blue steel springs were "pretty good." He then reccommended to me an offer by which the store would give me back half of my Forte purchase price toward one of their horns. That's nice for someone who bought a CSO without knowing, but I don't believe I fall under that category since I have found the Forte to be at least the equal of any plastic "Big 4." I declined and informed him I'd be taking by business to Sam Ash. Incidentally, the phone number of this store is (954) 722 3424.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-22 17:22
Ask him if he works on Yamaha clarinets.
Undoubtedly he will say "yes".
Then tell him that the Yamaha YCL-250 is made and assembled in Indonesia.
Then tell him he's uninformed and go elsewhere ...GBK
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-10-22 18:34
In my communications with Dr. Henderson, he stated that the replacement materials are standard sized and interchangeable with other big name manufacturers. His company further promises a 72 hour delivery on parts to anyone who requests them. Given the excellent reputation of the Dr. and the glowing references of this clarinet, I am planning to investigate offering these clarinets to my school students. Only through more widespread use will techs become familiar with the horn. It is most certainly not a CSO.
The tech should also be aware that many of the "big" manufacturers have moved their manufacturing to Asia, anyway. Take a look at the new Selmer student model, as I stated in a recent post. And they are not alone.
Sue Tansey
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-10-22 19:04
It seems like a clumsy attempt to sell their own stock.
If this business wants to remain"reputable", it should replace the technician.
Hans
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-10-22 19:25
Familiarity with the Forte is somewhat limited. He probably thought it was a CSO, as after a while it's difficult to keep up with all their names. I wouldn't be too harsh on them.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2005-10-22 19:46
Last time down to visit inlaws, I was offered a "mint condition" Buffet B12 as a superior starter instrument for my nephew - at the Minimum Advertised Price.
When I mentioned that I could purchase a new E11 for the same money, they immediately lowered their asking price by several hundred dollars.
I did not recognize any faces from the last trip down, one year ago.
******
This switching practice is not limited to music shops.
I stopped at the neighborhood Sears to have a tire patched after picking up a nail in the construction zone...
They "require" that the offended tire be removed from the rim to patch -
and promptly offer to replace the tire for only a few dollars more.
Next time, I'll drive the additional ten minutes to my Indy mechanic...
It's sad when the consumer knows more than their tech support.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-22 20:13
What company makes Forte clarinets?
I like the design features on them, especially the 1010/Eaton-esque-shaped barrel.
I must admit I've just rebuilt an old Yamaha YCL-24, it's pretty much like a plastic Series 9 in playability and construction - the workmanship is impressive (even more than Selmer's own keywork in some places), all the rings are set perfectly against the chimneys having uniform gaps and heights, and each ring itself is turned and then soldered to the arm (rather than being a single-piece stamping or casting), which fits around the key barrel rather than just butted against it like the current ones.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-22 20:20
Clarinet-shaped object. Basically any Chinese-made heap of cack in the shape of a clarinet that sells for next-to-nothing, but costs a fortune to get working - an uneconomical waste of resources.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2005-10-22 20:49
I suppose it is possible these days with the wealth of brands out there for any music store to be wary of any name other than the big ones. After all, these days, there are some real questionable ones out there.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-10-22 20:56
I could sell you one. (mine's from India, tho') ;-)
Unfortunately the bore of it is smaller so that a better quality stock mpc doesn't fit. It's not all that bad, probably good enough as a carnival instrument (read: adverse playing conditions)...
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-22 20:57
I especially marvel at the fact that a certain BIG name company has it's name on such questionable artifacts.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-10-22 21:03
(Disclaimer - I am the CEO of the Forte' Instrument Group)
Just to clarify some points. The Forte' is made to our specifications and material standards by the Amati Instrument Co. in CZ, a well known old line manufacturer. We have extremely tight quality control checks and tolerances which must be certified before each production run of Forte' instruments is paid for and are detailed in the contract for production of the Forte'. Each instrument is inspected, adjusted, and play tested before sending it to a customer. Keywork on the Forte' is a hard alloy - power forged, not cast, and is exceptionally sturdy. Pads and springs are identical to pads and springs on the Big 4 clarinets which any repair shop should have on hand already. We have a complete spare parts inventory and offer a service, and a promise, for repair technicians to have any part of the Forte' in their hands within 72 hours of order - something not available for any other clarinet. Fact - we have not received any warranty repair request for broken or bent keywork in our two years of selling Forte' and no known problems of materials or workmanship issues.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-10-22 21:13
Chris P wrote:
> I especially marvel at the fact that a certain BIG name company has it's
> name on such questionable artifacts.
Some of the big companies (not only instrument mfgrs) hired a lot of managers who come from other businesses, care less for quality and reputation than for profit optimisation and will leave anyway within some five years, leaving a trail of devastated companies and bought-up product names.
OTOH, not everything "exotic" is automatically bad. For example, Russian companies built very good, sturdy Leica camera lookalikes, with occasionally excellent optics. There are good and quality-conscious craftspeople everywhere.
(The whole "CSO" debate reminds me of the "Japanese Cars" debate in the 70s - how many of you drive a far-east brand car today? Underestimating the competitor is often the first step towards perdition.)
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-22 21:14
Thanks for the info Omar.
I often thought of adding a guide to the F#/C# lower pillar for the E/B key barrel to run through (as on old Couesnon clarinets), and nice to see a clarinet with that addition.
Will you be offering a wooden-bodied version with silver-plated keywork (and a LH Ab/Eb lever) in the near future (and with the same barrel design)?
And seeing Amati do every Boehm system keywork configuration, there's probably no limits to what you can specify.
Oh, and I drive a Volvo 940, but I did like the Hondas from the mid 80s - excellent engines on them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-10-22 21:20)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-10-22 21:37
(Disclaimer - I am the CEO of the Forte' Instrument Group)
The Forte' Bb is our first introduction as a student - intermediate, and pro hobbyist clarinet. The barrel is a custom design Moennig multiple taper barrel machined out of hard rubber. For the present we will only be offering it in nickel plated with the standard Buffet "style" keywork. The new offering "C" clarinet (spring 2006 as currently envisioned) will have a wood body, custom designed barrel, keywork in nickel or silver, and custom mouthpiece.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2005-10-23 01:20
I know it's too early for a pricing, but as a "WAG" what will be the approximate cost for the "C"
Bob A
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-10-23 01:32
Hello,
I can attest that the Forte is well made and a very good playing instrument. The music store you visited was indeed uninformed and perhaps xenophobic. As I've said before, just because an instrument is made in China, or the Czech Republic, or Elkhart does not mean that it is good or bad. Perhaps even better than Sam Ash would be an independent repairman working out of his garage in your area.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-10-23 02:35
(Disclaimer - I am the CEO of the Forte' Instrument Group)
I appreciate the kind remarks from Forte' users. It is too early to WAG a price for the "C" because the final specifications and contract have not been finalized. Unfortunately clarinets larger or smaller than the Bb cost more to produce - line setup, line time, precision, and less economy of scale. The target audience will also have to include professional players which tightens the properties of workmanship needed, tolerences, fit and finish required. Our goal is to come in much less than $1000. Spring, OK Clarinet Symposium and ClarinetFest are introduction possibilities.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-10-23 02:43
my only problem with the forte is there is no way to mount a standard lyre on the center joint.
other than that, i have no issues with it - it plays just fine, and takes standard repair parts. good horn for the money.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-10-23 02:54
(Disclaimer - Forte' maker)
Very few people use lyres anymore but we will have custom bell lyres - made famous by the famous Grambling State Tiger Marching Band - available in November (not the best solution for us old folks with trifocals however). An integral lyre post will be on 2006 Forte' models.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-10-23 04:21
cool. i built a bell lyre for my forte' but would prefer to just purchase one off the shelf.
(my high school students use the lyres in the stands - not on the field)
my eyesight prevents lyre use at any distance
in any event, the music store was wrong - its NOT a cso.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2005-10-23 06:23
I wouldn't be hard on that repair guy either. I'd blame the people who manufacture CSOs, stock, and sell them to unsuspecting parents and cause so much market confusion. It's easy to glance over a genuine quality product when the vast majority of the time you would be right in dismissing it.
-JfW
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-10-23 11:36
"Incidentally, the phone number of this store is (954) 722 3424."
OK, you have a gripe, but why post the store's number here?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-10-23 13:16
Hi,
I just took a look at the All County (AC) website and it appears that my message and the one posted by Hans were deleted. So much for "please share your thoughts with us." And I have gotten no email explanation about my questions. I guess AC only wants the good news.
IMHO opinion, I believe that AC missed a good opportunity for some positive PR ("yes, we made a dumb mistake" or "sorry but we want to make this right").
HRL
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Author: Celeborn
Date: 2005-10-23 17:20
Yes, I like the Forte a whole lot, and I'm glad to see such a response. I also like that store though, and would like to be able to use it. I just posted the phone number because it would seem odd to me to mention a place and not leave anything.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-10-23 20:23
Well, I put a message in the Guest book that was promptly deleted without comment (either in the guestbook or by email) and GBK has one in there right now.
I gave them the link to this page and a few stats about the BBoard. Most places I know would be glad to respond.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-10-23 20:56
This is not the only site that deletes non-complementary messages and discussion. Selmer has one (still does???) it too. I guess most if not all sites with an interest in sales would do it.
Such sites operated by sellers realistically should not be seen as anything but sales promotion.
However I hope the messages prompt this shop to investigate Forte more thoroughly, rather than making their discriminations so general.
Personally, I would be disappointed with ANY technician who blankly refuses to work on anything other than certain brands. It takes a far better technician to impart some reliability to poorly-made instruments, for a budget price, than it does to do easy maintenance on the "big four".
BTW, in case any wrong inference is taken here, I do NOT put Forte in the category of being poorly made. Quite to the contrary.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-10-24 03:21
My guestbook message was also deleted. No explanation or comment was given ...GBK
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-11-15 07:15
"It's sad when the consumer knows more than their tech support."
Not exactly. For example, if I wouldn't read this BBoard I wouldn't even know the Frote existed. I think no repairman in my country for example searches for the latest news on clarinets makers or anything of that sort, so I doubt any of them even know the Forte exists, although, I can't imagine any of them not agreeing to repair a clarinet for any reason.
Not agreeing to repair your clarinet (without a justified reason) shows disrespect and I would avoid them if I was you.
Post Edited (2005-11-15 07:56)
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Author: vin
Date: 2005-11-15 17:46
I left a message as well, let's see how long it takes them to delete it.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-11-15 18:52
Perhaps a highly placed conversation with the capi d tutti capi will rectify the situation (apologies to Mario Puzo)
Just took a look at the link....someone named Al Barelinski (a high school student) asked for a Forte:
<<<1. Hi Guyz. My Band Director recommended a clarinet called a Forte. I hear it is a great student horn. Any chance you will be selling these?
2005-11-15 14:37:26, Al Barelinski, Central State HS >>>
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2005-11-15 18:55)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-11-15 19:01
Hah.......it is gone!
took em 3 minutes!!!
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2005-11-15 19:05
> Hah.......it is gone! took em 3 minutes!!!
Might as well be a cancel-bot which transfers new postings to a quarantine area where it can be checked before being permanently posted.
I have to check my guestbook too in regular intervals - I don't want the terrists to communicate their plans via my site...(and I'm ultimately responsible for what's posted there)
How'bout good old e-mail? No joy either?
--
Ben
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