 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-07-30 13:50
i just got back from an orthodontist appointment that was scheduled after my dentist informed me that my bight was off.
what i've learned : i have tmj
being a future university student (majoring in music), i am very concerned about this. first of all, i DO NOT want to have anything bulky in my mouth. in the next few years i am going to be playing the clarinet more than i ever have and i think that braces will only make things painful and difficult. my problem (tmj), however, seems to be on the severe side for my age, and the orthodontist thinks that if i dont fix it with braces now, within the next several years i will have to have surgery. my orthodontist isn't a clarinet player, or a musician, so he isn't fully aware of the hours and hours of practicing that i will be doing. i know that its possible to adjust to braces, but at this stage in the game i am most concerned about my education and my playing and i have gotten pretty far ( for just being a high school student from a rural area) with my jaw and teeth the way they are. my teeth aren't even that crooked so its not really a cosmetic thing either.
has anyone else gone to college with braces? if so, was it the worst experience in your life? are there other options that i could look at? my orthodontist only talked about the normal braces, with the rubber bands and all that nasty stuff. he said if i decide to go ahead and get work done that we could discuss more. ive heard of a product called "invisalign" or something like that. does anyone know if that could help me? it seems more logical for a clarinet player to use something thin, like those, than some huge metal wires that are glued to your teeth.
i start college in about a month. anyone with advice or experience, please let me know what your thoughts are. i know its best for me to ask my orthodontist all these questions, but, as i said before, he ISN"T a musician and even though he is very qualified to do his job i want to get the advice from people who have actually been in my shoes before. thanks.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-07-30 13:54
I really think you should have your doctor correct your bite.
Bob Draznik
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-07-30 14:42
Talk with your Doctor - explain your concerns and figure it out with him.
Doesn't matter if he played the Clarinet or not.
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Author: BassClarinetGirl
Date: 2005-07-30 15:13
Well, I'm not going to college yet, and i'm not quite a music major, BUT-
I started playing clarinet with braces. I didn't find a huge difference in playing when they came off, which was right before high school. It shouldn't be the biggest issue- my bite was very off too, and it actually still is, because my jaw ended up growing after the braces came off. I didn't wear bands when I practiced clarinet or was in band class, and my ortho was OK with that. I always just poped the out and then put them back in afterwords. Of course, I was only ever playing for about an hour at a time back then. Just use the wax when something metal is poking into your cheek. I would get this problem fixed before it gets worse, because the older you are, the harder it is to fix these sorts of things. Talk to your dentist and ortho and they will help you find an option that works for you.
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-07-30 15:32
i did talk to him about it actually. his response: i've had trumpet players play in band with braces. if they can play an instrument like the trumpet and still be in band, then i would think that playing something like the clarinet (as if it is a piece of cake that requires no skill at all) wouldn't be that bad. i think that playing in band and majoring in clarinet performance are different. im not quite sure if he understood that-since most people who haven't been involved in music, from my experiences anyway, dont really think that studying music takes hard work or that the countless hours of practice are equivalent to the countless hours of calculus homework done by "academic" majors.
he said that i am supposed to think about getting braces, make my decision, and get the work done before i go to college. which leaves me a few days to think about it, a few weeks to wait for the appointment, and then about a week probably to get adjusted before i have to play the entrance auditions for my placement.
that is the epitome of poor timing. if i had known that my headaches and a few other problems with my jaw were actually a bigger deal than i thought, i would have inquired about it. it wasn't until my last appointment with the dentist that he discovered the problem though.
Post Edited (2005-07-30 15:40)
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Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-07-30 16:20
clarisax wrote:
> i did talk to him about it actually. his response: i've had
> trumpet players play in band with braces. if they can play an
> instrument like the trumpet and still be in band, then i would
> think that playing something like the clarinet (as if it is a
> piece of cake that requires no skill at all) wouldn't be that
> bad.
WRT trumpet vs clarinet, I believe he's correct. I also monitor the trombone groups, and it appears that brass instruments have a far harder time with braces than woodwinds do, mainly because their lips are doing the vibrating instead of a reed, and hitting the braces on every cycle. Lots of bloody mouths, etc, are the result until they get used to it.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-07-30 18:42
Go and get the work done. I had braces the beginning of my freshman year to the beginning of my junior year in HS (which is older than most kids get them). I had them for 23 months.
The complications with braces and playing the clarinet:
1. The wax you put over the braces when you play tends to push in and so eventually you start to feel the wire again.
2. It was harder for me to fix my embouchure during this time, but you are a good player it seems and you probably have most (if not all) of your embouchure problems worked out.
3. Other than that, there's really nothing. Only that fact that the ortho hours of business tend to conflict with classes.
My retainer is invisaline and I play with it in. My teeth move when I play the clarinet, so I like to keep it in when I play. I think invisiline braces though are for minor braces cases. I would get the metal ones- also, the metal that is glued to your teeth is actually getting smaller lately. Also, you don't have rubber bands the whole time- I got rubber bands after about 14-16 months of braces. You take the bands of when you play, eat, and sing so it doesn't really affect it too much.
Here's a funny story:
My mom started out on the clarinet in elementary school. She went to the ortho to get braces and the ortho told her that she needs to switch to trumpet because it will be easier (yeah right is what I'm thinking!). So she switched to trumpet and was pretty successful and then in college she switched to euphonium and has been playing it ever since. What was that ortho thinking back then though?
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-07-30 19:51
well, after thinking about this pretty much all day i have decided to talk to the orthodontist again and schedule an appointment to have this problem taken care of. i'll see what possible options i have and give whatever he thinks is a best a shot. its only a year or two with them. i guess i'll live. what doesnt kill us only makes us stronger, right?
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-07-30 20:44
Hey Clarisax,
I supposedly have TMJ as well, and every time i go to the dentist, they tell me, you really need to get your bite fixed, or you will start to have very bad pain. This has been going on for about fifteen years now, as i refused to get braces because even when i was 11 or 12, i was playing so much clarinet already.
MOst orthos are gonna want to put braces on you no matter what you do. I may have missed this, but are you experiencing pain in your jaw? Exactly what is the problem with your bite? or is it just crooked teeth.
Currently, it looks as if my teeth are form fitted to the clarinet mouthpiece.
The diagnoses for my bite problem was also very suspect: "wide tongue" apparently, my tongue was too wide to allow my back teeth to grow in properly, and thus when i bite, not all my rear teeth met each other. This has only been a problem when eating fruit roll-ups, otherwise, i have never had any problems, even though my prospective ortho, WHO ACTUALLY WAS A CLARINETIST, claimed i would have terrible jaw pains before i was 20, and also a "chewing deficiency" which is clearly BS
Post Edited (2005-07-30 20:45)
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Author: marcia
Date: 2005-07-30 20:48
I am now sporting braces for the second time in my life, first time when I was a teen. (I'm considerably older than that now!) Neither episode has curtailed my playing at all. Yes it can be painful at times but that is what orthodontic wax and analgesics are for.
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-07-31 01:13
Again, as was said above - get a second opinion.
We can't possibly speculate about your particular condition.
I will say that I had a dentist try to tell me I had this problem many years ago. I have never been aware of it since, nor had anyone else tell me this. I am now 48.
Even with regard to orthodontics - you can get, sometimes, differing opinions with regard to treatment for more standard malocclusion. Really, check with another dentist.
Sue Tansey
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Author: Aussiegirl
Date: 2005-07-31 02:41
I got braces on when id been playing for about 2 years or so, and got them off 2 years later. I would probably notice more of a difference now than i did when i was 14-16, but at the time i know the first thing that i did when i got them on was go home and play the clarinet to make sure i still could, and one of the first things i did when i got them off was the same, and i could play fine both times with not too much adjustment. Talk to another orthodontist tho, and see if there is possibly any other treatment you could do if its going to bother you. At uni in my year (1st year) theres a tuba player and a flautist both with braces, and they are both excellent players, so it can be done on other instruments.
Fiona
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Author: Susan
Date: 2005-08-01 13:26
I just finished Invisalign treatment, and it worked very well for me. I was able to play with the aligners in place, but not as well. I suppose I could have adjusted had I given it a little time, but since it wasn't necessary, why bother? I just took them out to play, then put them back again. I specifically asked to be evaluated for Invisalign, so that there would be no risk of orthodontic appliances messing up my playing. They're a little more expensive, and can't correct all orthodontic problems. My treatment took about a year, and I'll always have to use night retainers. It would be worth investigating, anyway.
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-08-01 15:00
I had braces as a teen (while playing clarinet), worked for a dentist as an adult, still play the clarinet and have severe TMJ disfunction myself.
Please understand that even though braces may help, or even correct, your problem they may not too. Sometimes people have severe TMJ disfunction due to jaw structure and surgery is the only way to correct it. You should get a second opinon.
You say you are from a rural area...can you get to an area that has more dentists/orthodontists and get another opinion? Possibly in the city where you'll be attending college so it will be easier for you to get adjustments in the event you decide to do the treatment? If the second opinion comes down that it's best to do the braces then just do it. You'll be a much happier, healthy adult if you do.
This is all my opinion but..... I saw so many middle aged and older adults with teeth problems in our practice due to bad bites that could have been fixed as kids. Some parents think orthodontics are just for straight teeth and cosmetic purposes. Sure, they straighten your teeth but having a correct bite is so important to the health of your teeth and your jaw. Keep this in mind as you make your decision. You can learn to play clarinet with braces. Many people do and it will be over in a few years. Your dental/TMJ health is yours for a lifetime.
Best of luck to you, Rebecca
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-08-01 17:35
Get a referral to a dentist who specializes in wind players. Your dentist should be glad to find someone who does this work frequently. This will affect you for the rest of your life, so you need to get expert, specialist care.
My wife's dentist made her a night guard, which evens out the pressure when she's asleep. He says that her problem is that a couple of molars are too high. If this is your problem, rather than crookedness in your jaw, then it's simple to grind down the high surfaces.
Another possibility is to switch to double lip, which lets your jaw be in its natural position while your lips make the adjustment.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2005-08-01 18:55
If you have severe TMJ at 18, I would think that's definitely something to worry about. If it were me, I'd put everything else on hold until it was corrected (if correction is, in fact, possible). I have very mild TMJ that developed when I was in my forties. Using a dental night guard is helping somewhat.
From what I've been able to ascertain, there are many degrees of the TMJ affliction. Some people have an extremely really rough go of it, where others only find it a mild and manageable irritation. I have a psychologist friend who specializes in chronic pain management, and he has a number of TMJ patients under his care. A second opinion from a professional versed in the demands of playing a wind instrument is vital. I would imagine TMJ could worsen to the point where you wouldn't be able to play.
Does clarinet playing aggravate the condition for you?
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2005-08-01 21:35
I had an issue about getting braces going into college as well. After talking to different teachers/professors/orthodontists, the general concensus was that it's much better to fix it now, and deal with it at a much younger age, than to just let it get worse and try to fix it later. If you ignore the TMJ for the time being, it could get worse and prolong the process of braces in the long run, if it doesn't cause problems with your playing.
Invisalign I think is easier to play with if you can afford it. It does cost a considerable amount more however. I have that on my bottom teeth (the ones I was the most concerned with) and nothing on the top teeth, and only saw a change in my playing for a about a week, then I adjusted.
Basically, I would recommend finding an orthodontist who has dealt with wind players before (as stated in an earlier entry) and get it done now. You'll already be admitted into the college, they won't withdraw your admittance if you get braces, and in the long run you'll be glad you fixed them early. Later years in college you'll probably be playing a LOT more, and wouldn't want the braces put on then, it'd be better to adjust early.
And, from experience, when you get them off it is AWESOME!
Best of luck, I hope everything works out for you, and have fun in college.
So many instruments to play........so little time to play them!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-08-02 13:02
Hi, this is Ken's wife.
I went through high school playing the flute with braces and survived rather nicely. However, my regular dentist didn't give me a retainer and some of my teeth slipped back. Over the past 20 years I've developed a rather nasty TMJ problem. As Ken stated, the nightguard I wear to sleep certainly has helped, but I am scheduled to have my dentist do some work on my bite to see else can be done short of braces.
I worked for an orthodontist one summer and learned a little bit about treatment possibilities. The orthodontist you saw was probably correct, although I would certainly get another opinion, simply to satisfy yourself and your parents that they are investing their money wisely.
The advances in orthodontics are making life with braces a lot more pleasant these days.
Have a great time in college. If you find you can't play clarinet, use the time to learn: voice, piano, stringed instrument, percussion instruments. You never know what could come of that.
My one piece of advice to you and to all others who are going off to school -- at least one year of voice lessons. It will make a huge difference in your sound and your concept of phrasing and musicianship.
Good luck and best wishes,
Mary Vinquist
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