 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: missclarinetist
Date: 2005-07-29 05:21
Why Vandoren? Hey guys just wondering why everybody uses Vandoren and not other brands. I have so far tried Riggotti, Legere, Rico and Vandoren. I find that Vandoren doesn't suits to my needs of playing and I sound better on Riggotti. Whenever I buy Vandoren Traditional I never find a box of 10/10 playable reeds. Is there another brand similiar to Vandoren that comes with a 10/10 playable reeds? I find it annoying to find only 2 or 3 Vandoren reeds in a box that could play well and the others, well .. not as good. What do you suggest?
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2005-07-29 05:33
I don't use vandoren, I buy davie cane in tubes and make them from scratch using Dilutis's tools to make blanks and a ReeDuAl to cut the reed using a Morree as a model. I could never get Vandoren to work well for me. You can also try their finished reeds, Gonzalez reeds. http://www.daviecane.com Many people are using those reeds as well.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-07-29 05:55
I seem to recall that GBK offered some excellent tips not long ago on breaking in new reeds. I just can't locate the thread at the moment.
I find that 99% of all reeds, any reeds, any brand, will play right out of the box. Some may respond a little better than others but, unless it's a complete manufacturing mess-up... wet 'em and they'll play; all of 'em. It's been said dozens of times and worth repeating again that the player controls the reed, not the other way around.
You may want to tinker with a reed after you've played it a while (after the break-in period) but three out of ten playable reeds indicates, to me anyway, that you may need to re-evaluate your approach to playing new reeds, any reeds, any brand.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-07-29 06:16
First things first:
External factors which you have little control over (temperature, humidity, etc...) have a great deal to do with reed performance.
Thus, keep a number of reeds (minimum 4) in a performance ready state. To cover all contingencies it is also wise to have some of these reeds prepared slightly softer and some slightly harder than usual.
I tell my students to use a rotation based on the "Rule of 12" -
- Have 4 newer reeds which are in the process of being broken in and adjusted.
- Have 4 fully prepared reeds which are performance ready.
- Have 4 older reeds which are for practice sessions.
- As the newer reeds reach performance level, move them into the 2nd group. Then begin to break in a new batch (4) of reeds.
- As the performance reeds pass their prime, move them into the practice group.
- As the practice reeds wear out or become too difficult to play, toss them out.
Professionals often double, triple or quadruple the above numbers.
The beauty and simplicity of the "Rule of 12" for students is that they can store and keep track of all their reeds in 3 inexpensive, 4-place reed holders.
Next:
All Vandoren reeds will benefit significantly from 2 simple steps:
1. As (IMO) the cane has not aged long enough - purchase and date your boxes of Vandoren reeds. Build up a supply of Vandoren reeds, and let all boxes "age" for an additional 6 months before playing.
2. Almost ALL Vandoren reeds are harder on the left side than the right side. When balancing, first remove a tiny bit of material on the left side before making any other adjustments. Sometimes, that it the ONLY adjustment you will have to make.
Finally:
As a regular user of Gonzalez FOF and Mozart reeds, I can offer a few general guidelines for these reeds:
First, do not play on the reeds too long during the first week. 5 minutes the first day and increase by 5 minutes each day after that for the remainder of the week.
However, the most common mistake that I find is that most players are initially playing the wrong strength reed. The reed should play at approximately the correct strength on FIRST TRIAL out of the box. If you have to appreciably remove a good amount of cane to make the reed play, there is a good chance you are also changing the basic profile, design and template of the reed. Thus after all the carpentry, it no longer resembles a Gonzalez reed.
Due to the nature of their cane, which is quite dense, Gonzalez and Mozart reeds will change dramatically (from a bit too hard to a bit too soft) from first day to 7th day. Eventually after about a week they will stabilize and then any adjustments should be made. Any reed work before the first week (IMO) is premature.
A general flattening of the back of the reed is recommended after the first week. Unlike Vandoren reeds which are harder on the left side, most Gonzalez and Mozart reeds are remarkably balanced out of the box, but checking (and adjusting/balancing, if needed) each side for uniformity is essential.
For me, I think that slightly profiling each side of the reed helps to quicken the response. I accomplish this by holding the reed vertically on the Vandoren reed resurfacer and take each side down with 2 or 3 complete passes. This slight narrowing of the width of the reed, for the mouthpieces I use, makes a big difference.
BTW - As much as I like the Ridenour ATG system (as does Phil Shapiro, from Davie Cane/Gonzalez), I feel that more precise control is gotten from the Vandoren reed resurfacer and glass wand. Since getting one about a year ago, I haven't yet needed to use my reed knife...GBK
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-07-29 13:31
Fools rush in…
Perhaps I’m a fool for posting right after GBK, but we all have our two cents worth. For another buck you might be able to buy a hot drink from 7-11.
I use Mitchell Lurie.
I teach clarinet, but I don’t have a music degree, so I’m also taking some lessons now in order to improve both as player and teacher. Just yesterday I had a conversation with my teacher about this very topic.
She “blessed,” so to speak, my choice of Mitchell Lurie, adding that the choice of reeds is a very personal thing. She agreed with my statement that Mitchell Luries are more consistent out of the box than VD’s. She went on to say that some people choose Van Doren because they find that the best Van Dorens are better than the best Mitchell Luries.
I also revisited this topic recently with the friend who told me about Mitchell Lurie. He is a music major whose busy and successful day job is in another field. He is also the principal clarinetist for a small, non-paid symphony orchestra. He said something like this, “My practice time is limited. I would rather spend my time practicing instead of working on reeds just to get them in playable condition.”
Judging just from GBK’s advice about the use and care of specific brands of reeds, there is a whole “world of reeds” out there. Most of us just scratch the surface.
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Author: bflatclarinetist
Date: 2005-07-29 13:36
I use Vandoren because where I live there isn't much selection of reeds, and I'm not allowed to order from the internet...
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-07-29 14:59
I've become "addicted" to Mitchell-Lurie Premium reeds. They were recommended for use with the Mitchell-Lurie M3 mouthpiece I'm playing. The first box of ML (Not Premium) reeds were 10/10, so I bought two more boxes. They sucked -20 ineffective, damp fire-starters.
Since then, I discovered that there are Mitchel-Lurie reeds and there are Mitchell-Lurie Premium reeds. Both, evidently, are now part of the Rico empire; and it has been suggested that a leveling of the Rico brands to a lower common denominator accounts for the change in quality.
A more recent discovery is that Rico is making PREMIUM ML (again?). They now come in boxes of 5. Of the first 5, I got one supreme, lovely reed. The others are, along with the fire-starters awaiting the arrival of my ATG reed diddling system.
BTW: The ML Premium cane reminds me of the taste of the reeds I used to play as a kid in the '60s.
Generous colleagues have frequently given me other brands of reeds to try, including Gonzales and Vintage. These gifts have never been of a suitable strength, so I can't comment.
Bob Phillips
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Author: William
Date: 2005-07-29 15:16
I've tried most of the major brands of reed on the market and find that Vandoran V12s, 3.5 play best for me. They are "finicky" and require conditioning as well as balancing to my Kapar 14, but with the help of my Reed Wizard and reed knife, I am able to utilize most of the reeds from every box. Usually, four will develop into "concert" quality with then rest being useable for practice and rehearsal. But a good VanDoran plays better and lasts longer than any other reed--at least, that is what I have found over the years.
However, at last evenings Capitol City Band concert--in which I play bass clarinet (3Bbs +bass, section)--they needed a 4th Bb for a section soli performance of Leroy Anderson's, Clarinet Candy. As I would have to switch to a cold Bb and reed, I resorted to a Legere reed and my vintage R13 with a mouthpiece customized by Glenn Bowen (my old college clarinet professor and 2nd clarinet of our band). And the Legere came through, singing like a lark and precisely matching the tambre, intonation and dynamics of the other three clarinets as we whizzed through this rather "corny" but nevertheless delighful, audience pleasing work. My point is, the Legere--a "Trad" 3.34--worked amazingly well. In fact, almost as well as I might have expected of a "good" V12. So, I guess my "jury" has once again gone into deliberations regarding the Legere reed. But, for now, I do prefer the VanDoran V12 to any other brand of reed, in spite of their inconsistancies.
Sorry that my "two cents" again turned into 25.............Hope it helps some.
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-07-29 15:17
Bob,
To each his own, I guess.
I use the regular Luries, #4. I tried the premiums, but they were a little too hard. Perhaps I should have tried 3 1/2. But it ain't broke; why fix it?
The friend I spoke of was using the premiums. During our last conversation he told me he had gone to the music store, and no premiums were in stock. So he bought a box of regulars, liked them, and continued using them.
M
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Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-07-29 16:09
As a related question to this, you people who have reeds set aside for concerts, do you only pull those reeds out for the concert itself, or do you use them (for example) also for the last rehearsal before the concert?
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-07-29 17:40
Archer,
Too much of a risk to pull that "special" reed out just for the concert.
I usually have 6 good reeds and from them, select 2 or three for special attention during the week before the concert. My logic is that, even the most beautiful reed can die under hot lights/dry atmosph/adrenaline rush.
Notionally, I usually try to play the best one during first half of afternoon rehearsal and play the second, during the later stages of rehearsal.
BUT in reality, if I'm really enjoying the reed, it stays on, and I've got a really good standby. (I have a shrewd suspicion that this is the norm).
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-07-29 20:58
I find the ML to be fair at best - including the premium. Good for players just starting out.
Grand Concert is the way to go (same company, much more premium reed). They are also much longer than the ML.
If you haven't tried them, and do like the ML - consider giving them a try, you may be pleasantly surprised.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2005-07-29 21:07
I use Gonzalez FOF 3.5. They feel very much the same to me as Zondas.
My experience with Vandorens is that there are some verey good ones, but less than half are usable. I still have one Vandoren reed from a few years ago that I use on special occasions. I usually have 3 other (Gonzalez) good reeds available.
I've used Mitchell Lurie reeds, need a 4. They seem to wear out quickly.
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Author: ajhogan
Date: 2005-07-30 05:13
I have talked to a few professional clarinetists about their reeds and the few that I have talked to have all said they use Vandoren V-12's.
Personally, I prefer Mitchell Lurie Premium 4's because of their consistency and they also have a much nicer response time since they are much smaller than Vandorens. I have also played Vandorens, and have to agree that they are not as consistent as the Mitchell Lurie. Although for me the good Mitchell Lurie's are just as good or better than the good Vandorens.
Reeds are very peculiar, it is a very personal thing. I know a very talented clarinetist who gets an incredible sound out of Rico Royals. So just keep looking around until you find something you like.
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2005-08-01 21:32
Dear missclarinetist; Suggestions? How about not forgetting to consider the Vandoren V12 reeds, they are like the Marca, a Moree (sp) type of reed, but do not go as soft. They have a really thick body until the vamp cuts it down. Use a mpc with a shallow baffle in the tip to drive these strong reeds, getting the altisimo notes real good, but the softest V12 is just right for the Selmer CP100 mpc at the 1.25mm tip opening, this one is really big inside. Always follow Moses and the 10 suggestions, Ken
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2005-08-01 22:08
I use ML premiums and find them exceptional. Also Zonda and olivieri. I've just experienced Twiggs and previously Phat. Both are great. I've found that if you sand the back of the reed so it's "slick" you're in pretty good shape. Right strength, smooth bottom and you're ready to go.
I've decided to get rid of my reed knife and just go with a piece of glass and 600 sandpaper. Smooth the back....and front....and if that doesn't work....throw her away. It's what? a dollar at the most?......and besides you spend too much time trying to get the perfect reed instead of the perfect sound. I can't imagine Artie or Benny spending time "whittling" reeds rather than just chucking them and moving on. But then they were jazzers and not classicalists. Except on the side.....
JG
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-01 23:04
"I can't imagine Artie or Benny spending time
whittling" reeds rather than just chucking them and moving on."
--------------------------
Well, than you don't know this Benny Goodman story:
It was told to me by Luther "Willie" Gillion who was one of the Glen Miller band members after Glen died (he was probably in it in the 60's I would imagine).
Benny Goodman was in NYC for a Concert (Classical) that he was playing and called his teacher to go to his hotel room to help him with something. Kell got there and on Goodmans bed were hundreds of reeds all over the bed - Goodman couldn't decide which reed to play for the concert and wanted his mentor to listen and help him pick which reed to use.
He (I remember Kell, but Bellison would make more sense) listened and there were many reeds which were just fine, but to relax Goodman he "picked the best one" for him.......
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-08-02 01:11
I play Gonzalez FOF's and Vandoren V 12's. The Gonzalez are more consistent but the Vandoren's last longer ....for me anyway.
David, I played some of the Grand Concert's a few months ago and really had a good experience with them. I was really quite surprised. I bought the 4's in a box of 5. Four of them played well. That's almost unheard of so I went back to get more of these wonderful reeds and the store had discontinued them. Bah! Where can I get them online? I haven't really looked yet.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-02 01:38
You had the older box of 5 in the dark blue box.
Get the Grand Concert Thick Blank - red/black box. They are what has been made for the past 5 years and play really well too.
Also try the Grand Concert Evolution which are similar to the Moree cut. (really thick back)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-02 03:03
Woodwind Brasswind and Weiner Music
wwbw.com and weinermusic.com
Muncy probably carries em too.
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