 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-07-25 00:48
I've been playing as part of a trio for some local events. The other members include a flute and a cello/flute (usually cello). The flutist asked quite some time ago if we'd help her out by playing a wedding in August. No pay, it's a friend of hers. We have little experience, but it's a small event and the parties involved know her and know that she plays well. So we agreed, on the idea that we'd get some experience and exposure.
Here's the problem - the flutist was asked, by the couple, that we play some things that I feel we can't play well - or shouldn't play at all - like an arrangement of the Mozart Concerto, for example. And "Eine Kleine Nachtmusick". Do we play these pieces anyway? Although we're not getting paid, I feel that, on the one hand, we made a commitment to play for a wedding and that means playing what the couple requests. On the other hand, is it possible that you might not be able to accommodate some requests?
Those of you with lots of experience in these matters, please let me know your thoughts.
Sue Tansey
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-07-25 00:59
Hi Sue:
Just play music that you are comfortable playing. You are not "club date" musicians, who are highly skilled at taking requests. Just make it perfectly clear that you are doing this as a "labor of love," and for no pay, so you call the shots (or tunes in this case).
It's always a good idea to have all the details clearly defined before such an important event. When you show up, just have fun, play well, and enjoy yourselves. Don't be put in an embarrassing position ever.
Good luck with the event.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-07-25 01:45
Wait, lets get specific:
This is for a wedding and the bride has a request of the performers. It's not about it you are getting paid or not, you are the music and the bride certainly has the right to have specific requests for what it played at her wedding.
Your flutist who is giving away everybody's time for free should do the legwork to find an arrangement or figure out one herself.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-07-25 02:15
If the bride is so hung up on requesting music (and there's not indication that she is), then she should hire professionals who can honor requests.
If the flutist wants to play music as a gift to the couple, then the bride will probably understand and should be grateful that you want to play what you know you can play well - ie: within your ability.
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Author: D
Date: 2005-07-25 07:04
Does the bride actually know that you can't play that music very well?
Would it be easier to supply her (or strongly suggest the flautist supply her) with a list of things that you can play. The bride could just be asking for pieces she knows the names of, rather than has some sentimental attachment to.
Having done a concert the other week that went a bit tits up in places, I would definately not recommend going into an even knowing you can't play the music. Can you imagine, walking down the isle to music that gets slower and slower and slower as the band come to the hard bit, or worse still, stops all together while they all agree what bar they got to and has to start again.......
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-07-25 12:35
Well, this is exactly what I'm anticipating. Some of the pieces that were requested are a struggle for certain members of the group. I don't think that such an event deserves anything less than an excellent performance, paid or not. Playing for a wedding is playing for a wedding.
Given that, I agree with John, and with Larry B. Unfortunately, the couple went to "wedding music" web sites and listened to selections, from which they chose, and the flutist agreed to these selections in principle.. We are rehearsing tonight. We need to come to some agreement on what is acceptable - slowing a piece down to accommodate someone's difficult passage is not acceptable. We do have quite a bit of music we can play well.
Sue Tansey
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Author: DougR
Date: 2005-07-25 13:45
Wait a minute. Here's the part that gets me--
"the couple went to 'wedding music' web sites and listened to selections, from which they chose, and the flutist agreed to these selections in principle.."
So, let me see if I have this right. The bride goes to websites of bands she would have to PAY for, selects her repertoire from their websites, and has the audacity to request that you play her selected repertoire, FOR NOTHING?
What am I missing here? I know friends & acquaintances make requests of each other all the time, and in that realm possibly this whole thing makes sense. But to a detached observer, who is not acquainted with the personalities involved, I think you and your fellow musicians owe these people exactly nothing. Your integrity may demand you meet their requests to the extent that you CAN, but what I'm detecting in your post is a sense of involuntary sacrifice (is the music going to be good enough, are we going to stink up the place because we can't hack the fast passages, are we going to feel like a bunch of amateurish chumps, etc.) , and THAT is a mindset (or, if you prefer, a responsibility) I would absolutely refuse to take on. You're not getting paid enough to sweat that hard!!
I think John Moses' approach is absolutely correct.
Keep us updated & good luck!!!
doug R
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Author: SolidRockMan
Date: 2005-07-25 13:50
"Playing for a wedding is playing for a wedding"
Yes - wedding days are quite stressful enough for anyone with an active part to play in the event. Musicians especially so as at times everyones attention is on you and glitches cannot be hidden. I have played at a couple of friends weddings and it is of paramount importance that anything the group is doing is well within their capabilities.
I suggest that before rehearsing tonight you have a straight talk with the group members. If will be far better for the flautist to eat some humble pie now than for the group to be cruelly exposed on the day - and the bride and groom won't thank you for getting it wrong either!
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-07-25 14:17
Every bride wants a beautiful wedding, so who can blame her for requesting music she wants to hear at the ceremony?
On the other hand, maybe you can help her decide the right way, if she knows that you want her wedding to be beautiful and that she would be best served by playing music you know you can play well.
At least you are not having to deal with the bride's maid dresses.
johng
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-07-25 14:17
Ah, music selection woes....
We have this all of the time. Generally, customers don't want to talk about the music at the time of the initial contract signing, instead asking for a songlist. (Ours has over 800 entries on same, ranging from the hits of the 1920's to the dance music of the 1990's.) After a long delay, then return it marked up with the names of tunes that "they have heard of".
Most freely admit that they don't know much about the music, but they feel obligated to pick something so they go with what they know (which in most cases is not much).
At that point, we try to do what we urge in the first place, that being sitting down with the client, finding out a bit about the guest list (who will be there, age groups, etc.), and then suggesting the better music to accomplish what they want.
Many couples look at the music as just a generic thing that they have to have since they are having a wedding, and don't give much thought to it beyond that. I always try to point out that loud and brash doesn't sit too well with the reception hour and the dinner hour, and try to fit the last two "dance sets" with the folks likely to show up. Sometimes the client listens, sometimes they don't.
With sacred and "classical background", the problem is even more severe, as they go with what they know (and in virtually all cases, that is zero), totally disregarding that "a little night music" was originally written with about twenty people in mind. They don't know arrangements from something in a furniture store, and they just assume that you can play everything.
(We once did a full group arrangement of a folk tune for a bride. It was originally performed by a three guitars and a mandolin group, but we had it set for our 5444 plus a vocalist setup, and went ahead and did it for a "special song". We'll likely never again pull it out of the box (my wife wants to throw it away), but we did it and did it musically. And the bride was happy, so that's all that matters...)
If you're getting paid for a job, then the old "The customer is always right" dictum applies. When you're working free gratis, then all of these dicta go out the window. The flute player is promising something that you may not physically be able to deliver (i.e., no arrangement that can be used for your instrumentation), or something that you might not be able to hack (but some practice should deal with this), but there's no question that she went out on a limb without thinking.
There are arrangers that will set this sort of thing up. Dick Spencer, up in Rhode Island, is one; his telephone number is 508 883-1435.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-07-25 14:25
Welcome to the world of weddings, where both preferences and priorities become downright fluid and swing wider than any pendulum.
The bride has picked out music for her special day, and to her the titles may well be more important than the sound. After 25 years, I still try to wrestle with the psychology behind this.
But you have a group which wishes to perform in the future and who don't want to sound bad at this wedding. To you, the sound is more important than the titles.
Understand this. Most wedding bands don't play requests which they don't know or can't handle. Some don't offer anything that's not already on their songlist, or may add a few numbers at an additional charge. Bands are not jukeboxes, and I don't see Eine Kliene Nachmusik as exactly being a common-knowledge wedding classic.
Your group needs to sound its best, and it needs to be up front with the consumer on what it is and isn't capable of. Your flutist has failed in this vein, and needs to learn from this experience.
My advice is that if your group has agreed to something that it can't fulfill, its spokesman should IMMEDIATELY be honest about this with the bride, and give her the option of going to others for what she wants. Tell her why this is necessary. I'm willing to bet that she'll understand. If not, then she should be allowed time enough to get what she wants before it's too late to book another group.
BTW, wedding music is handy stuff to have around. You might want to check out the wedding folios by Bill Holcombe, which have very flexible instrumentation. They are available at www.windmusicplus.com.
Allen Cole
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-07-25 14:29
Clarity is what you need.
David Blumberg is right that the bride has a right to have the music she wants for her wedding. I think, however, it is worthwhile to explore further just exactly what she wants and how badly she wants it.
It could be that this bride just happened to hear this music, and she thought it sounded nice. That’s quite a different situation from another bride who has a special attachment to a particular piece of music and a long standing desire to have that piece played at her wedding.
Brides don’t always know exactly what they want.
When my wife and I were married twenty two years ago, there was another wedding earlier that afternoon at the same church. The other bride insisted that her party would need the church social hall right up to the time of our wedding. So my wife agreed to have our reception outdoors.
As it turned out, the weather was beautiful and our outdoor reception worked perfectly. But, also, by the time we would have needed the social hall, there was no trace of the other wedding party.
Playing for weddings can a major hassle.
Once, in the seventies, I agreed to play with a friend for a wedding of a couple who attended his church. The two of us played guitar and piano and sang. The bride and groom came to listen to us practice, and proceeded to give us instructions on how they wanted the song performed. We said never again!
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-07-25 15:14
Sue,
I don't have a lot of experience in this area but will tell you what I would do. I, too, am in a new trio and have thought about your dilema. First, the people on this board with a lot of playing experience have great advice. Take that to the trio tonight and talk about it.
You mentioned wanting to get exposure with this wedding......well, getting negative exposure is NOT what you want. You aren't getting paid but you just might get some future gigs. Get a good song list and play order and try to stay with it. We are somewhat flexible with our play order but not the song list. Being relaxed, confident and playing very well is important to people who are looking at hiring you in the future.
One other thought......if the bride really wants certain pieces played at her wedding, why not have them played through the sound system on a CD? Am I totally out of line here by posing that question? Let the trio play the live portion and let the sound system handle the stuff you don't want to play. Just a thought.
Best of luck to you,
Rebecca
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-07-25 15:54
The CD idea might work.
It may or may not be appropriate in this particular situation, but in general, it's a great idea.
I played piano for a wedding reception where the bride specifically requested two special songs for two special dances. It was decided that we would use CDs.
I usually use a keyboard amp with my digital piano. For the venue I decided that a PA would provide better quality sound for the CDs. So, I rented a PA and the bride's family reimbursed me for it, and I used a CD deck to play the two songs through the PA.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-07-25 15:58
I recently played a friend's wedding. I told her what we we're going to play, and she was delighted. She had one request, and we were able to accomodate it.
We played clarinet trios: transcriptions of Mozart opera arias (Trio di Clarone/Breitkopf editions) - the greatest love music ever.
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Author: William
Date: 2005-07-25 16:17
"like an arrangement of the Mozart Concerto, for example"
As a clarinet, flute and cello trio?? That I would like to see.
BTW, as you are volunterring your servicies, I see no reason why you should have to agree to play every request the bride (and groom) may make. Play music that you feel you can do well and that will make the ceremony a memorable event.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-07-25 16:25
I used CD's at my own wedding. All the performers were Artists who I promoted so it had a lot of special meaning to it.
The CD included
Clark Terry w/Mike Vax
Plas Johnson ("the" Pink Panther player)
Former Concertmaster Berlin Philharmonic playing Bach's double concerto at Casals festival (2nd mvt is stunningly gorgeous)
Bassist Eddie Gomez Trio playing Fiddler on the Roof
it was really cool and very special.
If you do want to use a sound system, I've done Professionally produced Accompaniments of both the Mozart Concerto 2nd mvt. (Piano minus the Clarinet) as well as the string quartet (minus the violin part) in whatever key you need. Bb Clarinet or A - no problem and I'd be willing to give both to you for free.
At any speed you'd like also.
Just don't distribute them.
blummy at comcast.net is my address
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2005-07-25 16:34
Our little band is playing for a Lithuanian wedding this coming Saturday. The bride said she'd play some Lithuanian tunes on her CD and we'll do the rest (trad jazz). The bride gave us a list of a few standard tunes she'd like to hear which were songs we know. We picked out all the rest.
I have a problem with your playing for free!
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-07-25 17:04
Thank you, everyone, for your insightful comments. David, thank you, that's a great idea and I will mention it tonight.
I should clarify that there is no bride in this wedding, just two grooms.
Yes, too many things were promised by the flutist. and some of the arrangements that have been cooked up are ridiculous. You are all absolutely right that I'm concerned about sounding unprepared, and am additionally worried that I am the only one of the three who hears this. Rehearsals have been cancelled and rescheduled for months now.
We are, as of now, playing music prior to the ceremony, the ceremony itself, the recessional, and for about an hour afterwards. There is a DJ for the reception. What we plan to play is primarily classical, with a few arrangements of old standards and fiddle tunes thrown in for the post-wedding portion.
I agreed to play for free when I was initially asked. The flutist wanted to make this offer, and are bringing us in on the event.
I think you're all correct in that their requests are more generic, not specific. They're not asking for "Music Of The Night", they want Mozart and Bach. I think they can be accommodated with enough music that we can play well, but I agree that there needs to be some communication asap to nail this down.
Thanks, everybody.
Sue Tansey
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-07-25 17:27
very interesting - in fact, you don't really need to clarify anything
funny how some of these threads end up like the game of telephone.
you only mentioned that the couple made some requests; it was blumberg who introduced the notion of a demanding bride.
how we get tripped up by stereotypes and assumptions!
for my part, I apologize to all the brides out there
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2005-07-25 17:28
Concertante for Flute and Clarinet with Orchestra, Op. 41 in B - Franz Danzi.
Fortunately(?), there is a CD issued from BMG played by Sabine Meyer(clarinet) and James Galway(flute).
Since any amateur duo of clarinet and flute will not be able to play 'comfortably' like them it will suffice the couple's request.
As an evidence it may be a good idea to present the BMG CD.
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-07-25 18:04
Larry,
You're right about this: Blumberg obvously didn't catch the part about the two grooms.
But you are wrong in blaming Blumberg for the demanding bride concept. He didn't introduce it; you did! You said "If the bride is so hung up on requesting music..."
For my part, I never said that this particular bride (who doesn't exist) was demanding.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-07-25 18:05
This is just one of those things that comes up when you first hang out your shingle. One lesson learned here is to avoid making any offer of services too open-ended. The customer is only limited by his/her imagination. The performer must be aware of his/her more concrete limits.
Here is a link to some friends of mine who have an amateur woodwind quintette that does quite a few paying jobs. They do a good job, and are generally well-received wherever they go. Take a look at the information they present. They have learned a number of these lessons and function pretty efficiently.
http://www.ccensemble.com
Allen Cole
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-07-25 18:05
Larry, maybe I did need to clarify!
I didn't correct anybody earlier because I didn't feel it was relevant. But isn't it amazing, as you say, the stereotypes we live with.
You're quite right, I can't play like Sabine Meyer. I'd like to hear that recording, though, and maybe they would as well.
I'll let you know how the rehearsal and discussion goes!
Sue Tansey
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-07-25 18:47
Markael,
you're right that I continued the bride canard that was introduced by Blumberg, but a closer reading of my post would make clear that I wasn't assuming the non-existent bride was "hung up" - in fact, I stated that there was not indication that she was hung up.
My hands are clean!
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-07-25 19:34
I mentioned a bride in my post too.........Sorry. I usually go back to the original post before responding....and did this time too but I made an assumption and shouldn't have.
Carol......why do you have a problem with them playing for free if it was a mutual agreement? Many people do this as a wedding/anniversary/Bar Mitzvah/graduation.... etc. gift. What's wrong with that if all the people in the performing group agree to it? I will always pay my musicians and as a matter of fact, will pay my brother's band to perform at our parent's 50th anniversary celebration, but some people do make gift/gratis agreements. I'm just wondering why you have a problem with it.
Rebecca
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-07-25 19:50
...And in any event, the "bride" (as in the party funding the wedding) would still have been the one to make the request. So, male or female, you've still got a "bride" in the traditional sense, unless both were equal partners in putting on the show, in which case you've got "two brides" (which is really scary, even if they are both male).
Most of us in the music dodge can relate horror stories about wedding ceremonies and receptions gone bad. Most of the problems arise from poor communication between the parties involved, and try as you may you can never anticipate every problem that will arise.
My worst was a reception where the family ate up all of the time alloted for our performance with an endless round of toasts and performance skits, and then wanted us to "just stay later" and play for the appointed time. Add some slightly inebriated members of the bride's family who didn't see why we shouldn't stay and you had a volatile situation in the making. Luckily, the usually much-maligned bride came to the rescue, pointing out that she had signed the contract and she was going to live up to the terms. (She also gave me a sizable tip as well.)
The second worst was a contracted setup at a commercial facility (a hotel) where all of the accessible electricity was out of service on the night of the reception. Only a local Home Depot and a 100' run of extension cords saved the day there, and had we not arrived an hour earlier than normal, it would have been a dark and subdued performance. (Them vocalists need the amping, and the piano is an electronic grand.)
I try to have a luncheon with the bride and the other planning parties at the time of signing of the initial contract. All of this sort of stuff is aired at that time, and explanations are offered up front about what they can (and, more importantly, cannot) expect.
(That way, when the groom backs out and there's no wedding, I can keep the deposit without any qualms, and they know that it's one of the terms. I've only had this happen twice, and only kept $500.00 in each case. In one of them, I had been offered another job for the same night; that's why the clause is in there in the first place.)
I'm also very liberal about doing "strange music". If they can get me a lead sheet and give some idea of style, I'll have any one tune arranged for their wedding free of charge. (I've got one arranger in the group, plus I build the price of the arrangement into the total price for the service.) Brides love this since they can have "their song" played at their wedding no matter the original source. Some of the rock based tunes turn out better than others, but we've not received a complaint yet, and quite a few complements.
Sometimes I can get something "off of the rack", so I'll have it ready in a week or so; other times I may have to specify a six week lead time (time for the arrangement to be cast plus two rehearsals to make it perfect). But, in any event, they get what they want to hear, all the while paying for it as they go.
One of the keys to success of "commercial music" is knowing what's desired, and then getting there first to satisfy that desire. This involves professionalism and musicianship, as well as good marketing and advertising. To the extent that you follow up on all of those areas, your group will be a success in its niche.
Our art music friends who "do weddings" generally have a standard "rep" that they've worked up prior to getting the offer to work. Their book may not be as extensive as the one that we carry (as I've said, we've got over eight hundred arrangements in the box), but it still is going to have the "standards" plus any special arrangements that the group may want to feature.
As you're starting from scratch, you need first to determine what is there to be had. Some suggestions are above; you might contact some of your musical friends who do this sort of thing and see if you can get some help with music that is suitable.
Letting a "friend of a friend" decide what's to be played without adequate consultation with the people doing the playing isn't fair to the "bride", the audience or the performers. It may seem forceful to go to the happy couple and point this out, but it's better than delivering a catastrophic performance (which seems to be where you're heading.
Since you're doing this as a tentative first step, it's obviously going to be a learning process. Whatever comes of this one, make damn'd sure that the "contractor" (your flute playing friend) doesn't offer the moon to someone else unless you've got the rep and skills to back it up.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-07-26 13:31
We had a rehearsal last night, the three of us, and here's the update.
We agreed to play only what we could play well. There are specific pieces which were requested for processional, recessional, etc. which work well.
We are continuing to work on the Mozart (Adagio), the couple specifically asked for it. I know many of you won't agree with this idea, but this arrangement actually works. It's not original, though, and that presents an ethical problem for some. I think it will please the audience, though, which is what I think is important here.
I raised the possibility of recorded accompaniment, thank you, David. It would be the only piece for which we did so, so it might be jarring. I don't know - what do you all think?
Do I have a problem with playing that during cocktail hour? Yes, but I'm not the one getting married. Do I think I sound like Sabine Meyer? No, but I have been listening to recordings and have worked on this at various points throughout my 30+ year clarinet career. Perhaps I can get some coaching prior to this event, as I do not currently study privately.
We narrowed the list, and may end up repeating some items.
Many rehearsals yet to come. I'll keep you posted. I really appreciated and enjoyed your comments!
Sue Tansey
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-07-26 15:07
Sue,
you might want to consider doing Beethoven's arrangement of Mozart's "La ci darem la mano" - better wedding music there isn't (although Don Giovanni is asking Zerlina to marry him only as a pretext to get into the sack with her).
It's arranged for flute/oboe, clarinet and bassoon. Your cellist could play the bassoon part. Published by Musica Rara/Breitkopf
good luck.
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