 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-06-06 14:42
I am considering the idea of a study book with exercises that will help in learning specific difficult passages in clarinet literature. This came about because I have always taken hard passages and made informal exercises to help me have a good playing basis for the actual part. Recently, in preparation for playing Ravel's Daphnis and Chloe I wrote down about 7 pages of exercises that I found to be helpful for 1st and 2nd clarinet parts.
So, what other pieces from the clarinet literature would you consider to be THE most difficult?
BTW, if you would like to have a pdf file of the Daphnis and Chloe exercises to try, email me privately at info@jb-linear-music.com.
John Gibson, JB Linear Music (a Clarinet.org Sponsor!)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-06-06 15:20
johng wrote:
> I am considering the idea of a study book with exercises that
> will help in learning specific difficult passages in clarinet
> literature.
There are 2 clarinet exercise books which immediately come to mind which do exactly that:
New Studies For Clarinet by Louis DeSantis has paraphrasic and melodic studies on difficult solo clarinet passages.
and
Advanced Studies For The Clarinet by Victor Polatschek has exercises based upon some of the difficult orchestral excerpt passages.
Also, although now out of print, the Russianoff Clarinet Method was a comprehensive method book with each chapter containing appropriate drills, selected technical material culled from the major exercise texts and joined with related examples from the literature...GBK
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Author: William
Date: 2005-06-06 15:22
"Recently, in preparation for playing Ravel's Daphnis and Chloe I wrote down about 7 pages of exercises that I found to be helpful for 1st and 2nd clarinet parts."
Sorry to disagree with you, but with all due respect, I find it most valuable to practice the actual parts that must be played, not numerous pages of "instructual excercise". For me, the best way to learn to swim is still to go into the water and float.
However, good luck with your project--it may be the perfect thing for everyone else and I may be just "all wet".
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-06-06 15:36
William said: "I find it most valuable to practice the actual parts that must be played, not numerous pages of "instructual excercise". For me, the best way to learn to swim is still to go into the water and float."
Actually, I agree to a point. The exercises I put together have no value unless they are a part of practicing the passages. For me, the exercises form a ground basis for learning something very difficult.
John
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-06-06 15:44
John -
A few suggestions:
The Gypsy Baron Overture has a horribly difficult spot. Simeon Bellison let his assistant play it, and Bruno Walter is said to have twitted him about it for years. (Anthony Gigliotti said it was the hardest lick in the standard repertoire.)
Tchaikovsky's Mozartiana has an infamous cadenza for C clarinet. It's nearly impossible on Bb and only a bit less difficult on A. On C clarinet, it's merely ferocious. I watched a live NYC Ballet broadcast a few years back where it just gobbled up Joe Rabbai, who's a formidable player. I've heard that Ralph McLane used it as his warmup exercise.
The Cat-Climbs-the-Tree cadenza in Peter and the Wolf is notorious. It has rips that don't appear in any arpeggio, and some top players are said to leave at least one of them out.
Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin has some hair-raising passages.
Dukas's Sorcerer's Apprentice sounds light and easy, but anyone who's tried it knows better.
Rimsky-Korsakov's Suite from the Golden Cockerel has a famous solo that ripples through several keys. It's already been made into at least one etude.
In the first movement of the Tchaikovsky 6th, there's a furious orchestral tutti. The clarinet part begins with C#-G#-F#-C# figure and goes on for half a page, with no place to breathe or look ahead. It needs to be worked out even though it's not a solo.
You might put together a staccato etude with the infamous spots -- Midsummer Night's Dream, Beethoven 4th finale, Beethoven 6th third movement solo with the descending arpeggio, Mendelssohn 4th Saltarello.
Have fun. It sounds like a great project.
Ken Shaw
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-06-06 15:53
I think this is a great idea. Sometimes when a student (or I) are going crazy looking at and practiciing an actual piece of repertoire, if I come up with something "based on" the passage in question, it gives the student or I another door to opening the passage. I wonder how many of us do this in our own practice and work, and I think putting such a project into writing sounds very interesting.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2005-06-06 16:53
This is not a new concept, but a good one. Gillet, a french oboist of great reputation(I think he played in Boston Symphony a very long time ago) was particularly noted for his methods of isolation, and the composition of exercises addressing the specific challenge. I remember him quoted as saying something to the effect of: start from the last easy note, and that is where the practicing must begin. I don't have the exact wording in front of me.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-06-06 17:42
When learning difficult passages, I find it extremely valuable to "learn how it goes." Whether this comes from (ideally) sitting with the score, or listening to a recording, a part can be significantly easier to play if you already know how you want it to sound before you start woodshedding.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-06-06 18:21
Absolutely true, Alex, that you need to have a concept in your head of what you are aiming for. I think the practice technique John is working with is a way to get at the mechanics of the thing once you have that concept.
I like Ken Shaw's points -- getting that cat up the tree definitely gives me the heebie jeebies (how do you spell that anyway), and his other passages are all interesting. Now that I think of it, though, sometimes the act of deciding how to play with spots once I have isolated them is a great learning step in itself.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2005-06-06 19:10
> Now that I think of it, though, sometimes the act of deciding how to
> play with spots once I have isolated them is a great learning step in itself.
I agree. What I have found over the years, though, is that one particular sort of exercise involving three notes (usually the 'trouble spot' can be broken down into bits consisting of three notes) has been very valuable as a template. Here is a reference to the Klarinet archives:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2001/09/000255.txt
Tony
Post Edited (2005-06-06 19:11)
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-06-06 20:22
You might want to take a look at Peter Hadcock's book, "The Working Clarinetist" - I think it contains most of the most challenging orchestral clarinet passages, and it's fully annotated, passage by passage.
Might be a good model for what you're trying to do. Not quite a tutor like the Russianoff volumes, but much more than just a collection of excerpts.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-06-06 21:30
Try Jettel as well. They aren't orchestral excerpts, but they are HARD in every respect, and will help you become a better clarinetist. (He also wrote a very nice little fantasia on Mendelssohn's Scherzo from Mid-Sum Nts. Dream that'll put you to the test musically and give some perspective on that passage)
That said, fingers aren't everything. Well, yes they are, but not just in the technical Nielsen oh-my-god-I'm-gonna-crash way. Among the hardest -- 2nd mov't of Mozart concerto, 2nd mov't of Brahms Sonata #1, Debussy Premiere Rhapsodie, closing clarinet solo from Night on Bald Mountain. How good is your rhythm and how steady your time? How perfect are the note transitions and intervals? How controlled are the fingers? How steady is timbre and pitch? How effectively are phrases shaped and dynamics contoured? How clean and precise are articulations?
If David Hattner weren't on his way to Aspen right now he also might jump in and point out that a healthy dose of Baermann 3 will do wonders for just about any technical passage in the literature.
You'd be amazed once you master control of the microdetails how much of the more athletic technique comes along for the ride. Hence, take passages and play them s-l-o-w-l-y and don't ratchet them up until they are perfect.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-06 22:27
Maybe with this book you could include a CD of those tiny passages being played so people can hear how it sounds? I know it would help me and if some people didn't like it, they merely wouldn't have to listen to the CD. Good luck!
Also, for the Daphnis and Chloe, Mark Miller has a mini teaching aide:
http://www.markmillermusic.com/ click Clarinet Lesson: Practicing a Technical Passage
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-06-06 23:12
Totally agree with William here ... that is why orchestral exceprt books are so good ... they let you focus on the nasty bits. Rember ... start slowly and play the passages PERFECTLY slow first ... then build the speed up - otherwise you'll LEARN your errors - far more difficult to unlearn - IMHO.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-06-07 05:00
I'm with johng on this one.
When I started work on the Mozart K622, I read the music and identified the arpeggios and scales. Then, I wrote exercises to help me learn how the MASTER progressed from one to the next. I played and played those exercises; and when I started work on the piece, itself, I developed no bad habits that had to later be worked out.
I'm pretty sure that my scales and arpeggios are inferior to those of really good clarinetists; and when I get tripped up on ordinary passages, its usually because I've encountered a weak spot in my fundamentals.
Home made exercises help me catch up on the things I should have grooved in years and years ago.
Bob Phillips
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-06-07 11:54
Yes, John, I too think it's a great idea.
Bob Draznik
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-06-08 00:04
I appreciate the encouragement I have had about this project. I was considering the implications of copyright. I think scales and arpeggio passages would be no problem, but what about an exercise built around a specific pattern recognizible as being from a particular piece?
For example, in the Polatschek Advanced Studies book mentioned by someone, he has a study built around Shostakovich's 1st Symphony. The patterns are right from the 4th movement, although they are developed into differing musical patterns. The copyright of the symphony is 1927, so it is not in public domain. There is no notation in the book about permission to use the musical patterns. So, is that OK? What if I did something similar with Peter and the Wolf or something by Bartok?
As to whether the idea of writing exercises to build a basis for playing the real thing works, I have a recent personal experience. After looking at the Polatschek book #5 on Shostakovich 1st Symphony, I realized why when I started to work on the actual clarinet part, it came so easily. ....because I had spent a lot of time years ago working on that #5 exercise in Polatschek.
John Gibson, JB Linear Music
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: vin
Date: 2005-06-09 15:55
I believe obvious parody (which, the Polatchek is, in a sense) is protected by the first amendment. I'll have to check my Supreme Court records...
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2005-06-11 16:19
It will be helpful if you can help me play through that Paul Jeanjean's 18 Modern Etudes.
Chan
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-06-11 17:20
Damn ken, you beat me to the punch (strauss).
Yup - Gigliotti sure did say that to me too.
Could transpose it though.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-06-11 17:43
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Damn ken, you beat me to the punch (strauss).
>
> Yup - Gigliotti sure did say that to me too.
>
>
> Could transpose it though.
Transposing the Gypsy Baron passage to A clarinet is the answer, because on the Bb clarinet it is almost impossible to play rapidly and smoothly.
Played on the A clarinet, the right hand can stay down through the first 4 measures...GBK
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