 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-04-20 17:06
This issue has just come up in the "old clarinet recordings" thread, and I'm so surprised by it that I'm taking the liberty of giving it a thread all to itself.
In brief: I shall be spending two weeks in Montana and Wyoming, and plan to take my plastic clarinet and spare mouthpiece. Usually I wouldn't bother, but I have a concert four days after I fly home and would prefer not to be too out of practice.
I am advised that the altitude will make a significant difference, and I should take softer reeds than I usually play.
Long ago I had to write a college essay on the physiological effects of altitude, but clarinets weren't mentioned! However, it is well known than athletes train at altitude in order to improve their performance at sea level.
So my questions are:
1) Will I struggle to play, soft reeds or no soft reeds? I'm only planning to do half-an-hour of scales after a hard day's horse-riding.
2) Will I struggle to readjust when I return home? The whole point of taking the instrument is so I don't get out of practice, but it'll be counter-productive if I end up practising a different way of playing as a result of the altitude.
3) Does practising at altitude benefit wind-players in the same way as it benefits athletes?
I'm especially keen to hear the experiences of fellow amateurs here. Professionals who routinely play several hours a day - and play a very great deal better than I do - may not react in the same way as I will.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-04-20 19:12
I've played while vacationing in Costa Rica. The altitude is high but because of the jungle the problem is more the heat and humidity. While in Peru I played on the rooftop of our hosts' home - in Lima (at sea level and desert conditions). I didn't take my clarinet with me on our two day trip into the jungle to Machu Picchu / Cuzco (over 3,400 metres elevation at the airport), but I'll tell you that because of the low pressure the shampoo shot out of the bottle and hit the ceiling as soon as the lid flipped open!! Among our group we had severe headaches, vomiting and fatigue because of the altitude, and our hosts plyed us with several cups of coca leaf tea before and during that trip (which the Canadian life insurance company wasn't too amused about). Running or playing clarinet up there would surely build your lung capacity. We got plenty winded on those large rock steps there in Machu Picchu.
Be adventurous and just take your instrument! There's nothing to lose.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2005-04-20 21:15
Montana and Wyoming ain't THAT high!
my "altitude experience" was playing at Clarinetfest 2003 in Salt Lake City- i have no idea if this is at a similar altitude to where you're going, but given that i live at sea level (ok, about 2m above sea level, 10 minutes walk from the ocean) i was advised that would notice the altitude change where reed selection was concerned.
well, it turned out that the difference was maybe .25 of a strength at the most. As i have in my case a wide variety of "reeds for all occasions" this really wasn't a problem. For my recital i used a Mozart 3 that had been a "bit on the soft side" for orchestral use here in NZ.
btw While at Clarinetfest i bought a Legere reed- Guy told me to choose one that felt a bit too hard as it would feel softer at sea level..... i have to report that the Legere reed i chose feels... yep... too hard at sea level.
keep playing the good tunes
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2005-04-20 21:26
by the way, i also went running and tramping/hiking at Clarinetfest and didn't experience any altitude problems (while most of the participants were struggling to walk to the exhibition hall- maybe it was a case of "surfers lungs" on my part). I'm sure someone else will offer advice to the contrary any minute now.....
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-04-20 22:12
I played sop Bb and Eb cls at Silverton, CO, 9300 ft, breathing hard in my younger/stronger days, it wasn't that tough at Durango, el. 6500. In a big band at Silverton I played bari sax, and took as deep a breath as I could every measure ! Dont recall any reed problems, am a "softie". Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2005-04-20 22:25
Well, I grew up in Boulder, which is at 5,400 feet, but did plenty of playing at altitudes of 8 - 9000 feet. There are a couple issues you will need to address:
1 -- Dryness. Desert climate and high altitude conspire to make it very tough not just on your reeds, but on you physically. Keep water with you or you will struggle as you play.
2 -- Breathing. No two ways about it -- if you are not acclimated, you can suck as deep a breath as you can and still feel like you didn't get a full load. Get out the Larry Guy and Bonade books and practice proper breathing before you get there. It is important to take long, deep breaths rather than short stuttering breaths if you don't want to pass out. The solution is to breath deeply, not often.
Reeds will play anywhere from .25 to a full stop "harder" than you may be used to, but with a caveat. Many reeds will tend to play harder in high humidity, so you have altitude and dryness going in opposite directions in this regard. I played 4, 4.5 and 5 reeds my whole life out there, and didn't change when I got to Northwestern.
Many years ago I was driving with Don Ambler and Anthony Gigliotti to Breckenridge for a series of masterclasses and other clarinet fun. Don's car crapped out most of the way up the hill. We were near a road sign that indicated an altitude in the high 8's, so AG got out his clarinet to see how things were going to play. (After he got done testing reeds, he fixed the car and we were on our way. A man of many talents!) He ended up doing some adjustments when we got to the destination, but he tweaked his regular playing stock and didn't change reed strengths.
Finally, practicing at altitude will absolutely help you if you are doing it properly. Bring your horn and enjoy. The environment is spectacular and the workout well worth it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-04-21 06:50
If you did an essay on the physiological changes that take effect in high altitude then you are sure to know about how the body can dehydrate very rapidly in the mountains. I didn't know that bit of information so my oldest son ended up vomiting and turning a strange shade of purple in his hands and face while in the Colorado Rockies a few years back. Turns out that he was very dehydrated. The paramedics said the solution was pretty easy. Get tons of fluids in him and keep him hydrated for the duration of the trip. He was trying to play golf when this happened. He was a strong young man of 15 at the time and he went down like a sack of potatoes so I think the water and air are a big issue when you aren't used to being without them.
Moral of the story........keep your water bottle filled and with you 24/7. Drink water even if you aren't thirsty. My sis in law lives in Nevada and they all carry water bottles out there. It's just part of their lifestyle. Take long, deep breaths and don't over do it on anything. If it's hard to breathe then you need to stop what you're doing and recover. Pace yourself and have fun!
Rebecca
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Guido
Date: 2005-04-22 09:42
I've packed a B12 into the backcountry of Wyoming's Wind River range on several occasions, playing daily at basecamp for weeks at a time above 12,000'. And I've carried a horn atop fourteeners in Colorado to play as well.
Each has proven a "blow-out" --- intially.
Just like anticipating the oxygen debt that occurs when you 'charge' a hill while hiking, playing can 'blow off' the top of your head and leave you breathless and faint with your heart pumpin' like a marathoner sprinting to the finish.
I don't think that the resistance of the horn-mp-reed is as important here as the body's poor oxygen uptake/adaptation at that new-found elevation. Flatlanders adapt over 7-14 days nicely, but the initial days are humbling.
In mountaineering, there's a "rest step" utilized to better pace one's advance, to keep the heartrate within a reasonable range. So your musical play may be punctuated by abrupt pauses and unwritten rests, as you suddenly realize how over-the-top your heartrate is about to run.
Such concerns decline markedly as elevation is lessened. Living in Jackson Hole, for example, might prove no different to your play than life back home. Somewhere above 9,000, however, the effects are pronounced.
That said -- it's all great aerobic training!
G
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-04-22 14:46
1) Will I struggle to play, soft reeds or no soft reeds? I'm only planning to do half-an-hour of scales after a hard day's horse-riding.
You WILL struggle to play. Your body will be recieving less oxygen, and so you'll find yourself short of breath much more often as you try to acclimatize (while your body's trying to create MORE red blood cells so that you can carry MORE of the oxygen through your bloodstream). So rule #1 is drink PLENTY of water, and don't try to over-exhert (spelling?) yourself while acclimitizing (so take it a little easier than normal on those horseback rides). I would say for the first week, if you insist on playing every day, play for fifteen minutes, then take a fifteen/twenty minute break. And go back and forth. So interject errands/chores in those breaks so you don't feel like you're "wasting" time (play for fifteen minutes, then do a load of laundry. Play for fifteen minutes, then take a shower. Etc. etc.)
My personal experience - I was vomitting for about three days since I went from 400 feet below sea level to 8000 feet above sea level in one day and immediately started Basic Cadet Training the next day, and it was HELL on my body. I don't know how many pushups or sprints you intend to do with someone sitting/laying on your back while you're gone ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) , but I'd minimize stuff like that if you can. At least for a few days.
2) Will I struggle to readjust when I return home? The whole point of taking the instrument is so I don't get out of practice, but it'll be counter-productive if I end up practising a different way of playing as a result of the altitude.
Depends on how well/quickly you adjust to the higher altitude. You'll probably find that you'll have more endurance when going back to a lower altitude (due to the higher red blood cell count, and you can carry more oxygen than you could before. Similar to athletes when they 'dope', but in this case it's perfectly legal - a major reason why the Olympic training center is located in Colorado Springs at appx 8000 feet above sea level)
personal experience - Due to the nature of my training and the physical limits that I was pushed to day in and day out at the higher altitude, I was (once upon a time) in phenominal shape. At 8000 feet above sea level. And when I returned home to BELOW sea level in NJ, my red blood cell count was so high that I literally got high off the oxygen that was just in the atmosphere (I would be dizzy for a few hours when getting off the plane just from breathing). It was, for me, as though I was hyperventilating, but just from breathing naturally.
3) Does practising at altitude benefit wind-players in the same way as it benefits athletes?This I couldn't tell ya. I was stupid and stopped playing clarinet for the two years I was at a higher altitude. But from the overall effects of what it does to/for you, I'd say that it probably will benefit (I would think that you'd be able to hold those long tones just a little longer than usual, at the very least).
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: supernova_khr
Date: 2005-04-22 16:55
I live in the Colorado Front Range (east side of the Rockies at ~5300 ft). When I first moved here (in the early 1980s) I didn't notice any major difference in trying to play. I've always played #3 reeds, and I can't tell any difference between here and when I lived at sea level. At this altitude, it takes about a week for me to fully acclimate, if you're going higher (say 8000ft) it takes about 2 weeks. The biggest thing I notice folks having problems with when they come to visit is climbing stairs.
For clarinet playing, I found the biggest difference is due to the lack of humidity (mainly in winter), so your reeds dry out quickly during resting periods. I was at a concert a few weeks ago (the Dave Holland quintet), and noticed the saxophone player spend all of his resting time playing with his reed. He had 3 glasses of water sitting in front of the stage, and was constantly swapping reeds in and out of the glasses. When my son was playing classical music on the bass (where there were lots of rests) he switched to a synthetic reed, and the drying out problem went away.
And just a couple of weeks at altitude isn't long enough to make any major physiological changes, so I doubt you'll notice a significant benefit in the long run. I even find that if I take a trip away from here for over 2 weeks that I have to reacclimate when I come back home. But it's really cool for those 2 weeks at sea level when I can run forever and not get out of breath!
Have fun in Wyoming and Montana...I hope it's a vacation for you.
KayR
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iacuras
Date: 2005-04-22 17:18
I live just south of Denver, CO at about 5600ft. When I recently went and played in Los Angeles, the only real difference that I found was that my reeds felt a little soft, and I could play about 75% longer on notes. Other than that my clarinet and bass clarinet played the same.
Steve
"If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon."
"If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
