 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-03-05 21:34
I believe it was nickma who recently posted that he thought that vandoren now makes a string ligature.
So I went to the website to check it out.
Alas, we say goodbye to Allessandro Carbonare playing us into our vandoren haven, but then again, the ENTIRE website was redone (not just the sound). So get ready for some fancy flash-media whenever you pop on by.
Also, say hello to "flow-pack" reed packaging. Reeds are now packed in a sealed package, with a humidity of somewhere between 40% and 60%. This is an effort to reduce a package of reeds from going bad if kept in a warehouse, studio, etc and now they all will perform "as if you picked it out at the factory in the south of France!"
They now offer a leather ligature (similar to the Rovners), however combined it with the popularity of the three plate choices in their optimum line. So now you can attach to the inside of the ligature (with velcro nonetheless!) a metal plate with two bars, a hard leather plate, or a soft leather plate (or, if you want, just play it with the velcro! A secret fourth choice!)
Also available (thanks nickma for spurring me to go there) is the "klassic" ligature. Made of string. Which was why I went there in the FIRST place.
So if you have the time and curiousity, check this stuff out. I'll be waiting for the reviews (which inevitably will be posted on this website at SOME point in the future. We've reviewed damn near every OTHER clarinet related item, so this will eventually be touched upon. Just not by me anytime soon)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2005-03-05 22:12)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-03-06 03:13
I've been recommending storing reeds at <50% RH for a long time. To get the authentic ambience you should toss in a little Herbs de Province in your humidor! In truth the Var region is pretty dry most of the time anyway.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-03-07 00:53
Carbonare is still there - just different (and more) music.
I think the flow packs for now are for single servings either by retailers or band directors. The boxes of ten reeds (V12 and Traditional) still seem the same as they've been (Rue Lepic boxes are mini mumidors).
I wish Vandoren would go back to the old minimally packaged card board boxes. The individual plastic reed traps seem way unnecessary.
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2005-03-07 01:04
The new site is indicative of its products, well conceived and packaged. Suggest you all check it out!
Fred
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-03-07 01:08
EEBaum:
I don't believe that those plastic things are meant to be reused (as you've found out). That's what makes them so infuriatingly wasteful.
At least the individual reed guards provided by David's reeds can be reused (which only makes them a little better).
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-03-07 01:11
i have beginning students who think those individual plastic reed packs are reed guards. and wonder why their reeds warp on them. and as alex said, they tend to mess them up, tearing the tips, etc.
and i note that gonzalez reeds come in paper packages, and they are some of the best reeds anywhere.
if we take the environmental view, thats sure one heck of a lot of wasted plastic in the vandoren boxes.
i wonder if the gonzalez folks use organic paper for their reed packaging.
-paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-03-07 01:13
"...The new site is indicative of its products, well conceived and packaged..."
I'd rather have a bit less packaging and more quality ...GBK
/remember to recycle those annoying plastic reed holders
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2005-03-07 01:33
Seems to me that like the photography business companies couldn't survive just marketing to professionals. I guess Vandoren has to market to the vast number of students out there then worry about pleasing the rather small number of music professionals. GBK, over the years has Vandoren used major figures in the Clarinet world as spokespeople? Do you think that for money some have endorsed products that are unworthy? I throughly agree that quality is the most important factor but for many concerns its just the bottom line.
Fred
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-03-07 01:38
Without going on a tirade about wasteful packaging (Vandoren certainly isn't alone in this regard), there ARE other ways to package reeds which are equally as protective and more efficient in their use of materials...GBK
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Author: clarispark
Date: 2005-03-07 10:28
I agree. With all of the little plastic reed cases I have gotten from buying hundreds of Vandoren reeds over my time as a clarinetist, I could probably melt them and make some sort of sculpture out of it--or another clarinet.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-03-07 12:24
Common sense dictum: KISS....keep it simple, stupid
Old surgical dictum: Perfection is the enemy of good
Old horseman's dictum: Handsome is as handsome does.
Marketing dictum: More is MORE
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-03-07 12:36
Fundamental Marketing dictum: It is harder to win a new customer than to sell more to an existing customer.
...GBK
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-03-07 15:40
Actually, Vandoren appeals very well to a mix of pomp and desperation that comes out of some school band programs. I always get a chuckle when kids from one school come into the store insistent on getting White Masters, but who only want them in 2 1/2.
After selling box after box of reeds to sixth graders at twice the price of other brands, it's a wonder that they even have an interest in catering to professionals at this point.
If they did, perhaps they would invest in more modern milling equipment, a la Zonda, Gonzalez, etc.
But then I have seen the answer to the question of "Would you rather have White Masters--or an embouchure?
Scary...
Allen Cole
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-03-07 19:07
speaking of marketing, who ever came up with the idea of naming a german clarinet reed the "White Master?"
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-03-08 16:40
I found a wealth of new information on the redesigned Vandoren site, but still no explanation of why the vast majority of their reeds are asymmetrical: i.e. left tip is stronger (heavier, more resistant) than the right. I wonder how many potentially fine reeds have been discarded because the players didn't know how to rectify this imbalance!
Thanks, Ben Armato, for putting me on the right path!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-03-08 19:15
LarryBocaner wrote:
> but still no explanation of why the vast majority of
> their reeds are asymmetrical: i.e. left tip is stronger
> (heavier, more resistant) than the right.
Because Vandoren still follows the debateable notion that the left side of the reed should be made stronger to compensate for the tendency of the clarinet to twist slightly the left side from being held by the right thumb...GBK
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-03-08 19:41
They make the left side stronger on their bass clarinet reeds, too! Don't know anyone who supports their bass clarinet with the right thumb.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-03-09 06:39
That's interesting, Larry, I hadn't thought about the German "White Master" thing. Maybe even more of a coincidence since I think that the White Masters are actually made to meet an Austrian spec.
Allen Cole
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-03-09 10:24
"I always get a chuckle when kids from one school come into the store insistent on getting White Masters, but who only want them in 2 1/2"
I'm obviously missing something because I don't see what's to chuckle about here? I know professionals who use Vandoren White Master no. 2 1/2. It all depends on what mouthpiece you match the reed up with.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-03-09 11:14
allen - I'm not saying Vandoren was doing anything darkly intentional, it's just a weird name (austrian or german - "Black Master" isn't much better).
Couldn't they have called them something like the "Meistersinger" or "Lorelei"?
Can you imagine Rico coming out with a new reed called the "Grand Wizard?"
Post Edited (2005-03-09 22:43)
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Author: studioline
Date: 2005-03-09 13:00
having looked at the ligatures, is there a difference in the silver and gold optimum ligatures, other than a purely aesthetic one? Do you think the gold one is supposed to make the tone a touch darker?
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-03-10 05:37
I have a silver for clarinet and a gold for tenor. The gold one doesn't tarnish, and my next clarinet lig may be gold rather than silver.
Allen Cole
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Author: rc_clarinetlady
Date: 2005-03-11 07:15
I'm a little interested in playing one of the new leather ligs. Anyone play one yet?? I play a dark Rovner now but think I may like to have the options of the inserts available on the Vandoren. I tried the BG Super Revelation at the suggestion of someone here on the Board but all of the metal inserts are too bright for me. I like a warm, darker sound. I play a close, long facing mouthpiece so a darker, softer sounding lig. works better. I like the Gonzalez reeds too. Good combo. I'd like to find a Vandoren leather. Any suggestions???
Rebecca
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-03-11 19:33
I like the twin pack plastic cases...they are great for holding the two concert reeds you have chosen...
David Dow
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Author: Wes
Date: 2005-03-13 03:43
Every day, I work on oboe and EH reeds, so I get some practice with cane. But I'm out of step with other folks on the clarinet and sax Van Doren reed holders which I use all the time and never seem to warp the reed. Maybe the continuous 70% RH here is a factor. The double reeds need a lesser RH, by the way, and I have dessicators for them.
In regard to the Black and White Master reeds, I believe that Van Doren recommends them only for the German style mouthpieces. Good Luck!
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Author: William
Date: 2005-03-13 16:46
When I heard Paquito D'Rivera 'bout a month ago, he played the entire concert (extraodinary, BTW) with a "White Master" reed on his "regular" mouthpiece. Rossi clarinet, as well. I believe he told me the strength was 3.5--?????
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